Air Georgian Cadet Program

[mbav8r]

STEP 2
If you are selected for an interview you will be interviewed in Toronto by a panel of Air Georgian and/or Air Canada representatives. You will also undergo a series of cognitive and psychological tests to determine your suitability as a candidate.
Which might lead one to conclude the above step will be close to or exactly the current interview process at AC, minus the, "tell me a time where you had a disagreement on the flightdeck..."
Another brilliant move by AC, inject a steady supply of pilots willing to work for crap wages for the carrot of all carrots, spend 60gs and 8-10 years from now it will start to pay off, absolutely brilliant.
5 years from now, the first stream of cadets will enter the AC workforce, wait, when does your contract expire? Never mind I have an idea of when that is.

[MartinB]

Good for you Martin!! Good luck


Thanks mbav8r, didn't read the entire job/training profile yet. Well, that answers man questions....Damn, I wish I was 18 again (but I'm baptized already! )

Thanks! I wonder if I will be eligible for it if I get my ppl scholarship from cadets this summer.

[mbav8r]

Can't see how it could hurt, might even give you something for your 800 word cover letter

[Old fella]

"GUARANTEED a job at Air Canada"

Sorry lads/lassies but I am an old goat but please note you are guaranteed "eff all" in the course of a lifetime. Only guarantee is at some point in time you will die - like us all.

[North Shore]

Don't forget Taxes, oldfella! it's death and taxes

[Fanblade]

Do the conditions of employment include entering into the normal hiring process after 4 years at Georgian? The conditions are meaningless. It amounts to nothing more than a guaranteed interview. Ask a Jazz pilot how many were rejected with guaranteed interviews.

STEP 5
After completing a minimum of four years of employment with Air Georgian, the candidate will be hired by Air Canada as a Pilot. Air Canada’s offer of employment will be conditional upon the candidate maintaining a good work record with Air Georgian (i.e. good disciplinary and training records).

This leads me to believe that being hired at Air Canada is guaranteed as long as you have maintained a good work record during your 4 years at Air Georgian.

It would be very misleading if they post this on their website (which implies that you have a guaranteed job at AC), but then after 4 years make you go through the full AC interview process.

Cj555,

You have to forgive many of us. This industry is filled with snakes.

My advise is based on that. Cautious exuberance. LOL.

However if this is legit and I was just starting I would be all over it.

Good luck and let us know how it comes out.

[Eric Janson]

Having watched Pay-to-fly (P2F) become the norm in Europe over the last 20 years it saddens me to see the same thing in Canada.

In Europe people are prepared to spend C$200,000 (yes - you read that correctly) on flight training including buying a Type Rating. Entry level wages are so low that they no longer cover the loan payments. In addition these Pilots get to work for Lionair - a company that has been blacklisted in the EU, with a safety record that would have seen it shutdown in any reputable country.

The bottom line - Aviation is no longer a viable career. One small positive development - banks are no longer prepared to lend these amounts of money without a guaranteed job.

What really gets me is that at each step of the way down people are loudly proclaiming that this is an "opportunity" or a "benefit".

Getting screwed is getting screwed - simple as that.

[Krimson]

One small positive development - banks are no longer prepared to lend these amounts of money without a guaranteed job.

The job is guaranteed right there in the text. If you can come up with 1/3rd of it, I think a bank would be willing to front the rest. It is all about persistence, there is always a way.

It was a matter of time before these programs started popping up. If I was just starting out I would definitely be considering it.
I would print out the website with their conditions and have everything very well documented on paper. If at the end of the road the job at AC isn't there 4 years from now, first you would still be marketable for other carriers such as WJ or Jazz with about 3000 multi-turbine hours. Second, you would have a pretty good case at getting a percentage of your initial cost back since they broke the contract (assuming you didn't do anything to screw the pooch). Overall it would be a good opportunity, just make sure you are ready yourself before jumping in over your head.

[learcapt]

And what about this oh wise ones?

http://www.avcanada.ca/forums2/viewtopi ... 54&t=72703

[Fanblade]

LOL

U had me going for a few paragraphs.

[learcapt]

Lol:)

[cloudnine]

I'm graduating high school this year and I am going to apply to this program asap (by the end of the month hopefully). What are the odds of getting in? I have some good charity work and have a mid to high 80's average at the university level in grade 12 (high 80's, low 90's in grades 9 to 11). Excellent academic achievement (says necessary for coming out of high school) could mean a lot of things?? I also wonder how many students they plan on keeping once accepted. I'd love to be part of this -- can't complain with a great opportunity and warm weather in Florida!

[icewa]

..

[draggintails]

Well I am more of a "watch from the sidelines" kinda guy but after hearing about this I just wanted to give my two cents. As a pilot nearing completion of his commercial with all the fixings I find it a big kick in the pants. On the other hand, I am excited just due to the fact that young Canadians get a real fair chance at a flying career. I believe its about $60,000 or so for the program. Now lets look at this price. ITS A BARGAIN. It really is, a Commercial with an Multi IFR is going to set you back around $50,000 or so. You get a type rating and if you fall into the criterea after your 4 year term you get in with Air Canada. Some say big deal, but it is! I remember having 10 hours total and my goal was still Air Canada!! I don't think like that now after the years of flying but you get the point. This is a great opportunity and as far as the money......banks will have no problem handing you the cash due to the nature of this program.

And Now the ugly!! So congrats you work for Georgian. You ship out to Calgary or Halifax for goodness knows how long(guys don't think 3 months and your done...watch out). Be prepared to be gone for awhile if your an Ontario res. You are Georgians biaatch for 4 years....you know what happens to musicians with bad record deals don't you?? Well we will just leave it at that. You will get every pilot that had to pay their dues through flight instructing or bush flying etc...basically having a grudge with you. Trust me this happens alot and I know a few of them and they are cut throat kinda guys. It will take you a couple of years to gain respect from other pilots. Aviation is truly yours to discover. When you fly for a few years and sit at the local pilot coffee shop you get a sense that its just a job.... well that is until you turn the engines on and stare at cirrus clouds.

I know what hard work is.....after your program at Georgian will you?? Will you still be hungry for more? Thats why us pilots are the way we are. We all took the same path and know all the same BS that comes with it.

Finally for you young guys, always remember this saying and I only get it now after my very first instructor told me 4 years ago.

"When the grass is cut short, the SNAKES will show"

[aerie]

http://www.marketwire.com/press-release/-1745912.htm

January 15, 2013 09:49 ET
Air Georgian and Air Canada Announce an Airline Pilot Hiring and Training Program Partnership

The sky is calling at ClearedForTakeoff.ca as Air Georgian and Air Canada are introducing an innovative hiring program to help address their needs for the next generation of pilots.

TORONTO, ONTARIO--(Marketwire - Jan. 14, 2013) - Air Georgian and Air Canada, announced today the creation of a unique cadet pilot hiring program for high-achieving Canadian youth. The program is designed to encourage young men and women to consider careers in commercial aviation by assisting them with pilot training and offering them a clearer path to rewarding employment opportunities. Candidates must be high school graduates with a strong academic record and have demonstrated leadership ability at school and in their community.

Eligible candidates will be selected by Air Georgian with the assistance of Air Canada. They will then receive two conditional offers of employment: The first offer, from Air Georgian, will be conditional upon successful completion of both a 50-week, student-funded, pilot training program at Flight Safety Academy in Vero Beach, Florida culminating in obtaining a Commercial Pilot Licence and a Multi-Engine Instrument Rating from Flight Safety Academy and Air Georgian-funded training at Flight Safety International in Toronto. The second offer of employment, from Air Canada, is contingent upon successful training and employment as a pilot with Air Georgian for a minimum of four years as well as on meeting certain employment standards at Air Canada.

"We are very excited about our Cadet Program partnership with Air Canada," said Eric Edmondson, President of Air Georgian. "This program will help both Air Georgian and Air Canada attract, train and employ the best and the brightest youth in Canada in a very challenging and rewarding career. This is an innovative program designed to address our need for highly skilled labour, while offering some bright and enthusiastic young Canadians a clear school-to-work transition option. This partnership with Air Canada is the result of a number of years of working closely together transitioning pilots and specifically Captains from their first airline job at Air Georgian into a career position at Air Canada. This partnership represents a single stream of recruitment and retention programs offered under Air Georgian's "One Regional" program. Other streams include a highly successful mentorship program through a partnership with Seneca College, as well as other retention programs."

"Air Canada is pleased to partner with Air Georgian on this innovative program. This program gives high achieving young Canadians an opportunity to develop their skills and find fulfilling careers in the challenging world of commercial aviation," said Captain Rick Allen, Senior Director Flight Operations at Air Canada. "Both carriers will benefit from the ability to attract top talent while customers will gain assurance from the knowledge our pilots are selected from among the best candidates who will receive intensive preparation through the program's carefully-guided training regime with its emphasis on safety."

Flight Safety International was chosen by Air Canada and Air Georgian to provide the initial training because it is the world's leading aviation training company. The Flight Safety Academy at Vero Beach is a world class facility where the instruction and equipment used are second to none.

"We are very confident that the Flight Safety Academy will provide the highest calibre training to our future pilots. Flying conditions are excellent at Vero Beach with clear weather most of the year and their staff is highly professional," said Captain Daniel Bockner, Air Georgian's Vice President, Flight Operations...

I guess it's official?

[mbav8r]

So, now what happens to current FOs at Georgian? Will Georgian stop hiring FOs from outside of this program? Once the program is fully implemented, will Captains at Georgian who did not go through the Cadet program be at a disadvantage?
It's almost set up as a flow through type arrangement, except no mention of non cadet employees.
Does Air Canada own any portion of Georgian?
edited to add; other than the last question, which I believe the answer to be no, the other questions were rhetorical in nature.

[Doug Moore]

On the face of it, this offer, if one can call it that, is nothing more than an interesting enticement to learn to fly and obtain a commercial pilot’s licence.

If one experiences difficulty in training or is otherwise assessed by the Flight Safety Academy(s) as a weak student able only to meet a minimum standard, then that job at Air Georgian and more particularly that AC job at the end of the rainbow may be much more elusive than one is led to believe by the announcement above.

Particularly so at AC, where some 5+ years after embarking on this exciting adventure, the incumbent will still have to meet “certain employment standards” at AC. If one reads between the lines that means that young pilots-to-be considered at the outset by AC to be “eligible candidates”, are encouraged to enter this pilot training program at their own expense, but AC still reserves the right to ensure that you meet their standard (or not) when the time comes to get a job with them. And that employment opportunity may not be 5 years down the line, it might be 8, 9, 10 or more years down the line. Put more bluntly, whenever that job opening arrives for you at AC, if they decide for whatever reason at that time that they don’t like you, they don’t have to hire you. And they won’t, cadet program or no cadet program.

So I would advise anyone considering this offer to see it for what it is: this is an enticement to learn to fly and not a guarantee of employment – only a “conditional” offer of employment. If you wish to make flying your career, are prepared to make that financial investment (and are not interested in the military route), then I say go for it – but only to learn to fly. Do so with your eyes wide open – and not wide shut – there are no solid job guarantees with this little scheme – only the potential for a job.

[YYZSaabGuy]

Particularly so at AC, where some 5+ years after embarking on this exciting adventure, the incumbent will still have to meet “certain employment standards” at AC. If one reads between the lines that means that young pilots-to-be considered at the outset by AC to be “eligible candidates”, are encouraged to enter this pilot training program at their own expense, but AC still reserves the right to ensure that you meet their standard (or not) when the time comes to get a job with them. And that employment opportunity may not be 5 years down the line, it might be 8, 9, 10 or more years down the line. Put more bluntly, whenever that job opening arrives for you at AC, if they decide for whatever reason at that time that they don’t like you, they don’t have to hire you. And they won’t, cadet program or no cadet program.

So.....pretty much the status quo, no?

So I would advise anyone considering this offer to see it for what it is: this is an enticement to learn to fly and not a guarantee of employment – only a “conditional” offer of employment. If you wish to make flying your career, are prepared to make that financial investment (and are not interested in the military route), then I say go for it – but only to learn to fly. Do so with your eyes wide open – and not wide shut – there are no solid job guarantees with this little scheme – only the potential for a job.

Couldn't agree more. Consider this "conditional" employment offer an option held by Air Canada, not you as a cadet. In the meantime, you've got the possibility of competitively-priced training by a reputable organization and the potential of a job after that. I'm not sure how any of this is worse than the way flight training has historically been approached in Canada, but I'm open to having someone on here explain it to me.

[ggn]

Some good questions have come up on this forum; allow us to address some of them.

1) This is a program that has been created after more than a decade of cooperation between AC and AGL in the area of pilot hiring. The number of AGL pilots that have moved onto careers at AC is in the hundreds. This program represents only a single stream of pilots that will go from AGL to AC.
2) AGL will continue to hire pilots with all levels of experience including direct entry Captains, experienced FO’s, mentor pilots though aviation college and university programs and pilots from this cadet program.
3) The cost of the ab initio training is paid to Flight Safety not AGL and it is the direct cost of the program. AGL makes no money from the program but does take on an administrative function at its own expense to provide FSI SOP’s, technical information, mentoring and supervision of training.
4) The cost includes housing and the cost of flying. The program offered by FSI is in use by many airlines. They are one of the best in the world at training airline pilots.
5) FSI was chosen by AC and AGL after an RFP process which involved both Canadian and other US training providers.
6) This program will be no walk in the park. The selection process is highly competitive and the testing is rigorous.
7) Financial assistance in the form of loans may be available from Canadian Chartered Banks. Successful candidates should discuss this opportunity with their financial institutions if they are chosen to take part in the interview process.
Here are the conditions of employment from AC:
A. You acquire a minimum of 2000 flying hours as a First Officer on a Multi Turbo Prop aircraft as an employee of AGL (“AGL employment”);
B. You successfully complete initial training at the Flight Safety International Academy prior to starting your AGL employment;
C. You obtain and hold a valid Canadian Airline Transport Pilot License;
D. You maintain a clean disciplinary record throughout your AGL employment;
E. You maintain an attendance record that meets or exceeds the standard at AGL during your AGL employment;
F. You successfully complete all required training events during your AGL employment (a maximum of one failed training event that is passed on the subsequent evaluation will be allowed);
G. You consent to AGL disclosing to Air Canada the records necessary to confirm your fulfillment of the conditions listed above; and
H. You pass an Air Canada Pre-Employment Medical exam and a Pre-Employment Security Clearance.
9) AGL will continue to hire mentor pilots in the same ratio as it does today.
10) The “One Regional” program mentioned in the press release is an AGL initiative focused on attracting new pilots that will stay at AGL until they are hired by a major international carrier. The program is also focusing on retaining current employees until they are offered a position with a major international carrier.
11) AGL pilots are currently based in 3 locations – YHZ, YYZ and YYC. All new pilots must be willing to work from any base upon being hired. AGL is governed by a binding collective agreement and a base lottery is held during groundschool as is a seniority number draw. Usually, but not always, new FO’s go to YYC or YHZ as YYZ is a relatively senior base.

[BTyyj]

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