60 story Condo planned for Buttonville . . .

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bizjets101
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60 story Condo planned for Buttonville . . .

Post by bizjets101 »

With Markham’s Buttonville airport set to close, the sky’s the limit when it comes to building heights.
Earlier this week, Cadillac Fairview presented a plan for its Buttonville lands — about seven hectares of land where the current airport is located — during a public meeting.

The plan, for Buttonville Town Centre, is designed primarily as an employment centre with up to about 4.6 million square feet of office space that will accommodate about 22,000 jobs.

The plan also includes several public park areas, a private park area with a man-made lake and a condominium building that towers more than 60 storeys, all of which raised concerns from residents at the meeting.

“We want to create a beacon for those travelling down Hwy. 404,” said Cadillac Fairview land use planner and president of Malone Given Parsons Ltd., Don Given.

“It lets people know they’ve arrived in Markham. This could be the catalyst to change and improve the area.”
But some residents argued the building height is too high.

To date, Markham’s height restrictions are based on the airport’s safe airspace requirements.
With the airport being redeveloped, that leaves room for other buildings and businesses to stretch skyward.

Some residents also argued the amount of green space was too little and the land should be left as natural as possible.

“There is nothing natural about an airport,” Mr. Given said. “We want to add more to it than merely buildings.”

The proposed man-made lake sits on Cadillac Fairview property and would be managed and treated by the developers. The water would be collected from building rooftops and could be used to help heat or cool the area, Mr. Given said.

The idea is for the lake to be a focal point for the community, where there can be dragon boat races, a restaurant on the lake and a walking path along the water’s edge. The lake could also be used as an outdoor skating rink during winter.

“Water has a magical appeal,” Mr. Given said. “It brings people to it.”
Many residents questioned how the lake would be kept clean with the number of geese in the area, which could contaminate the lake and act as a deterrent.

Mr. Given ensured the water would be treated on a regular basis and costs would be covered by the developer.

The proposed development — which is currently in the secondary plan process with a site plan expected to come before council in 2013 — also includes plans for about 3,500 residential units and about 1 million square feet of retail, restaurant, commercial and entertainment space.

“When this is all done, we want the people of Markham to say, ‘This is the way it should be’,” Mr. Given said. “We want this to be a place for everyone.”

The mix of residential, commercial and retail space did spark interest from residents at the meeting.
“We know density is coming,” Markham Village City Ratepayers Association member Karen Rea said. “But this is different than the big box stores we’ve been stuck with.”

The area will help boost the city’s employment-to-resident ratio from about 24 per cent to 57 per cent, said Ward 6 Councillor Alan Ho, who facilitated the public meeting.

“We will see population growth,” he said. “At the same time we have to grow our jobs.”

The airport is expected to close by the end of 2013. The developer has set a target occupancy for Buttonville Town Centre of 2015.

York Region News source

Image
Seemed like a great idea at the time !!!
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Stephen Szikora
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Re: 60 story Condo planned for Buttonville . . .

Post by Stephen Szikora »

“When this is all done, we want the people of Markham to say, ‘This is the way it should be’,” Mr. Given said. “We want this to be a place for everyone.”

- as long as you are driving a car, not an airplane

“Water has a magical appeal,” Mr. Given said. “It brings people to it.”

- am I the only one thinking it would be hilarious to drop in on them in a float plane?
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Colonel Sanders
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Re: 60 story Condo planned for Buttonville . . .

Post by Colonel Sanders »

I was thinking that on the last day that Buttonville
was open, we should make a little noise. Sort of a
friendly "So long, and thanks for all the fish" message
to the loving neighbours.
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Moose47
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Re: 60 story Condo planned for Buttonville . . .

Post by Moose47 »

G'day

I hope after they start digging that it turns out to be an ancient First Nations burial ground and all work is immediately halted. Then the legal battle begins winding its convoluted way through the court system with no resolution for many many years.

Cheers...Chris
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jubjub
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Re: 60 story Condo planned for Buttonville . . .

Post by jubjub »

Hey all,

I wouldn't start worrying about digging for 2-3 years, 2013 is really optimistic...Soil testing and environmental analysis is still underway. Then they have the fun task of either treating the contamination chemically, or digging up a good 50 feet of hydrocarbon laced soil and finding a place to put it which hopefully will induce a "not in my backyard" panic from the community whose mayor decides to accept it (cue lawyers and lobby groups).

The mention of geese in the article is a really good point, they love that airport. Lately they have been known to fly in V formation down the runways....buggers. Good luck putting a lake in. Unless they start shooting geese (cue PETA) and dry up the ponds at the Seneca building it's not gonna happen.

I can't wait for the residents to loose their sh*t when it takes them an hour to get from the 404/16th exit to woodbine.

“We want to create a beacon for those traveling down Hwy. 404”
Last time I checked there was already a beacon on the roof, it spins too! Problem solved. Can we keep the airport now?
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Siddley Hawker
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Re: 60 story Condo planned for Buttonville . . .

Post by Siddley Hawker »

What's STL got to do with building condos at Buttonville? :?
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Rowdy
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Re: 60 story Condo planned for Buttonville . . .

Post by Rowdy »

I like the colonels idea.. Make some noise!
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pelmet
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Re: 60 story Condo planned for Buttonville . . .

Post by pelmet »

Colonel Sanders wrote:I was thinking that on the last day that Buttonville
was open, we should make a little noise. Sort of a
friendly "So long, and thanks for all the fish" message
to the loving neighbours.
Sounds like a good idea. How about a Harvard training camp for the last several days. Contact the appropriate people and have some fun.
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xysn
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Re: 60 story Condo planned for Buttonville . . .

Post by xysn »

Cool pic bizjets. It looks like it's from a book or magazine?

God willing I will have my licence by the end of 2013; I'd like to fly there at least once.
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Re: 60 story Condo planned for Buttonville . . .

Post by Strobes »

Not gonna happen. Condo market is crashing in YYZ/the greater 416. In 1 year from now, this project will be abandoned. I guarantee it.
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Lotro
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Re: 60 story Condo planned for Buttonville . . .

Post by Lotro »

pelmet wrote:
Colonel Sanders wrote:I was thinking that on the last day that Buttonville
was open, we should make a little noise. Sort of a
friendly "So long, and thanks for all the fish" message
to the loving neighbours.
Sounds like a good idea. How about a Harvard training camp for the last several days. Contact the appropriate people and have some fun.
Sign me up for the Harvard training camp!
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jump154
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Re: 60 story Condo planned for Buttonville . . .

Post by jump154 »

Lotro wrote:
pelmet wrote:
Colonel Sanders wrote:I was thinking that on the last day that Buttonville
was open, we should make a little noise. Sort of a
friendly "So long, and thanks for all the fish" message
to the loving neighbours.
Sounds like a good idea. How about a Harvard training camp for the last several days. Contact the appropriate people and have some fun.
Sign me up for the Harvard training camp!
+1
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MIQ
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Re: 60 story Condo planned for Buttonville . . .

Post by MIQ »

I'm sure it will be a very nice recreation area, cornered in between the 404 and 407...
Can't wait to see another plaza with McDonalds, Wendy's, Subway and Co. out there.
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Rowdy
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Re: 60 story Condo planned for Buttonville . . .

Post by Rowdy »

I too will put my money where my mouth is and join in on any noise making activity with airplanes should it come down to it :)
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Truthteller
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Re: 60 story Condo planned for Buttonville . . .

Post by Truthteller »

Ah yes, let the truth finally be told on many levels.

Truth 1:
I see you admit now that you never did care about the noise levels for the neighbours, never mind the safety issues of having hillbillies in their 1960's planes flying over residential areas. Well I'll tell you this. Make all the noise you like and watch below as the residents wave you goodbye for the last time. You might be kind enough to fly over nice and low so that they can see you and smile. Enjoy it while you can...losers.

Truth 2:
Funny how the airport's existence was justified by the few hundreds of jobs it created and the couple of million it added to the local economy. Contrast that to the 20000+jobs and likely billions of dollars that the land will produce when developed. Truth hurts. I wonder what all those people who justified the airport from an economic perspective think now. The airport was the most rotten use of land from an economic development perspective ever. Maybe if daddy was still around he would have been smart enough to realize that a lot earlier, but meh, he's not and the kids haven't a clue. The puppet, er the minister doesn't neither.

Truth 3:
Where are all the bazillion movements that the airport supposedly has? Now that the foreign students are gone there's almost no one flying. Yup one of the most busiest airports in the GTA eh? Ha, ha. When all you do is fly in circles and call it a movement every lap, that's what happens.

Let this be a lesson to you all. The truth always comes out and most important money will make anyone sell you out. Just ask the beloved owners, they'll tell you but I bet they won't be able to look you in the eye. It would take some spine to do that.
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Re: 60 story Condo planned for Buttonville . . .

Post by Colonel Sanders »

The airport was the most rotten use of land from an economic development perspective ever
I couldn't agree more - I feel the same way about CYYZ. It
should be shut down and condos should be built there, too.

Cities don't need airports. What they need is more condos.
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Re: 60 story Condo planned for Buttonville . . .

Post by PilotDAR »

never mind the safety issues of having hillbillies in their 1960's planes flying over residential areas. Well I'll tell you this. Make all the noise you like and watch below as the residents wave you goodbye for the last time. You might be kind enough to fly over nice and low so that they can see you and smile.
Some more truths:

We'll still fly over (though both my planes were built in the 70's) and we'll still make the same noise flying over. They are not closing the airspace, just the airport. However, now when planes fly over, it is LESS safe for the residents below, as, if there were to be a problem with the plane, there is no longer an airport as an appropriate safe haven. The pilot will be lucky to land on a busy street. (I have glided to a safe landing on a Toronto airport runway following a sudden engine failure - I know).

And as for noise, Ha! You think the community will be quieter? Now you have all those extra roads and travelers, some driving their loud motorcycles and cars with exhausts modified to be louder. Airplanes are noise regulated, and this is strictly enforced by Transport Canada ($10,000 to test for noise compliance following certain modifications) - I wish modifications to cars were similarly regulated - my community would be quieter!

By my choice, after becoming sick and tired of the increasing noise and business of the growing Toronto area community I grew up in, I bought land. I sought and received permission from every neighbouring landowner, and built myself an aerodrome. I regularly use both my planes for community service, and never an unkind word about planes around here.

So I'll still fly over you. (I'll make lots of noise, and fly nice and low as you request). If, one day, I have another engine failure, I'll pick the best place I can to land, sorry if I cannot make to a runway next time, 'cause the airport's gone.....

You think you satisfied yourself making that post? You really did not.....
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bizjets101
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Re: 60 story Condo planned for Buttonville . . .

Post by bizjets101 »

First - with mortgage rates about to climb - rates you'll never again see in your lifetime, the glut on the worlds biggest condo market (Toronto) it will be interesting to see who ends up moving into condos nobody (Buttonville Condos) wants or can afford.

Irony is moving the Jane Finch / Regent Park crowd in. When the CDN Govt brought in thousands of Somalian refugee's they took over entire areas of cities.

Also 16 Ave traffic coming of the 404 is already jammed in rush hour - and they want to add 22000 people into that.

Markham Airport is just up the street - so why wouldn't I continue to buzz Markham - I'm still there, in fact not departing Buttonville - heh truthteller, do you realize currently the planes flying around Buttonville can climb to a max of 2000' do to the arrivals at YYZ. As soon as Buttoville closes, aircraft departing Markham Airport, and flying south of Markham, will now be limited to 1000 feet.

The airport may close, but Irony is the planes will still be there, they'll be flying lower, and if the Teachers Pension Fund time the sale of property wrong, Yeah remember when we used to have an airport, now we have a ghetto in the suburbs. Irony. (carefull what you wish for).

If the market does tank, look for an extension of the Buttoville timeline.
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Truthteller
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Re: 60 story Condo planned for Buttonville . . .

Post by Truthteller »

It won't be less safe for the residents because there will be less planes flying over. It will be marginally, and I mean marginally less safe for the airplanes. That tiny airport was no safe haven. Just look at the recent crashes and subsequent deaths in the area. The fact there was an airport nearby didn't save them. Another one landed on the 407 because they couldn't make it the extra mile to get to the airport. The truth is, if the airport wasn't there, the nearby residents wouldn't have been near any of those incidents. No point arguing because you can't. What you say is fallacy, not truth.

As for the noise, again another bullshit answer. Do you really think road noise affects as many people as 1960s clunkers flying overhead. And oh yeah those Transport Canada regulations you talk of, if they worked, no one would be complaining about airplanes flying over them. And if you check city bylaws you'll see that motorized conveyance do have noise regulations. But it's enforced just as much as TC enforces their rules, and I use the term "rules" loosely.

Last, say what you will, the truth is, you'll not be flying over me. :wink:

Some more truths:

We'll still fly over (though both my planes were built in the 70's) and we'll still make the same noise flying over. They are not closing the airspace, just the airport. However, now when planes fly over, it is LESS safe for the residents below, as, if there were to be a problem with the plane, there is no longer an airport as an appropriate safe haven. The pilot will be lucky to land on a busy street. (I have glided to a safe landing on a Toronto airport runway following a sudden engine failure - I know).

And as for noise, Ha! You think the community will be quieter? Now you have all those extra roads and travelers, some driving their loud motorcycles and cars with exhausts modified to be louder. Airplanes are noise regulated, and this is strictly enforced by Transport Canada ($10,000 to test for noise compliance following certain modifications) - I wish modifications to cars were similarly regulated - my community would be quieter!

By my choice, after becoming sick and tired of the increasing noise and business of the growing Toronto area community I grew up in, I bought land. I sought and received permission from every neighbouring landowner, and built myself an aerodrome. I regularly use both my planes for community service, and never an unkind word about planes around here.

So I'll still fly over you. (I'll make lots of noise, and fly nice and low as you request). If, one day, I have another engine failure, I'll pick the best place I can to land, sorry if I cannot make to a runway next time, 'cause the airport's gone.....

You think you satisfied yourself making that post? You really did not.....[/quote]
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Truthteller
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Re: 60 story Condo planned for Buttonville . . .

Post by Truthteller »

Oh yeah, people will be lining up at Markham airport, where you get a sticks and stones runway and an outhouse for a restroom. Keep talking dude, keep talking... When the time is right that land will be developed just as Buttonville is. The owners aren't stupid enough to piss away money into that airport.

I know full well what the flight paths are and it doesn't bother me one bit what you say. Feel free to buzz that area all day long. Markham council is on Warden and 7 in case you didn't know. Why don't you see how far you get buzzing them at 1000 feet. And oh by the way, see how far you get trying to buzz a 60 story building at 1000 feet. :wink: Let me help you with the math because I'm sure you left your hillbilly abacus at home. A 60 story building is minimum 650-700 tall without any antennas on top. TC CARS require minimum 1000 feet over that which puts you pretty darned close to the YYZ ceiling doesn't it. Who knows, they may have to prevent rinky dink GA planes from flying over there at all. Hint, hint. Yup sometimes the truth sucks.

bizjets101 wrote:First - with mortgage rates about to climb - rates you'll never again see in your lifetime, the glut on the worlds biggest condo market (Toronto) it will be interesting to see who ends up moving into condos nobody (Buttonville Condos) wants or can afford.

Irony is moving the Jane Finch / Regent Park crowd in. When the CDN Govt brought in thousands of Somalian refugee's they took over entire areas of cities.

Also 16 Ave traffic coming of the 404 is already jammed in rush hour - and they want to add 22000 people into that.

Markham Airport is just up the street - so why wouldn't I continue to buzz Markham - I'm still there, in fact not departing Buttonville - heh truthteller, do you realize currently the planes flying around Buttonville can climb to a max of 2000' do to the arrivals at YYZ. As soon as Buttoville closes, aircraft departing Markham Airport, and flying south of Markham, will now be limited to 1000 feet.

The airport may close, but Irony is the planes will still be there, they'll be flying lower, and if the Teachers Pension Fund time the sale of property wrong, Yeah remember when we used to have an airport, now we have a ghetto in the suburbs. Irony. (carefull what you wish for).

If the market does tank, look for an extension of the Buttoville timeline.
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bizjets101
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Re: 60 story Condo planned for Buttonville . . .

Post by bizjets101 »

I hate feeding the troll, I just wish the troll was smart enough to appreciate how dumb they are?

As for Buttonville, it will be the 10th Toronto airport to close. (11 if you include GA aircraft at YYZ).

As for Markham Airports, 600 acres is owned by the Thomson Family, and the East side of the airport owned by the Federal Govt., both kinda have deep pockets.

Considering the Thomson family are very experienced builders, I would assume that eventually it will be a high density housing community.

The Federal Govt. pockets may be deep (they have our pockets) but they've blown so much money in the mismanagement of YYZ - they can't afford another airport, never mind the opposition.

I've always wondered why morons move to an airport and whine, and whine about the airport.
Maybe the moron will answer :)
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2R
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Re: 60 story Condo planned for Buttonville . . .

Post by 2R »

If one operator in Vancouver was rumoured to have received over three million dollars for being closed down.Just how much will these condos cost after paying out all the operators in Buttonville ?
If i was an operator in Buttonville i would be talking to the Lawyers that got the big settlement for that particular operator in CZBB that got shut down.If a company with a history of fatal accidents can get three millions,the operators in buttonville should be eligible for a very large share of the profits from the development and a very large settlement from the various governments that changed the zoning and usage of the property.
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Re: 60 story Condo planned for Buttonville . . .

Post by flyingmaverick »

Thats bad , I was hoping to go there this summer
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Re: 60 story Condo planned for Buttonville . . .

Post by PilotDAR »

Troll feeding can be entertaining, in limited amounts, when the weather is not nice enough to go and make noise in my airplanes. My experience has been that trolls are most often wannabes, who for whatever reason cannot, so they think that they satisfy themselves by attempting to widen the unhappiness they feel themselves, to others. Wise people are no more than entertained by this foolishness. Aviators are a tough breed, and not phased by whiners. The privilege of the freedom of flight has costs, and one of them is having to endure the occasional whiner wannabe troublemaker troll.

Airport whiners are the worst of the trolls. Apparently not bright enough to realize that the community they are freely choosing to move into has an established airport. They take down the real estate sign, look up, and are shocked to see an aircraft on final approach to an airport which has been there for decades. Then they think that we might somehow view them as an unfortunate victim of some deceit. Naaa, we aviators did not conceal the presence of the airport during your choosing to move there, we just kept doing our thing.... You're the one who was not paying attention.

It is a bit of an unpleasant thought that Buttonville will close, but I cannot afford the cost to keep it open, other than to patronize the many businesses there from time to time. I have driven my tiedown stakes into the ground elsewhere, and be assured Truthteller, as long as I choose, no land use people will prevent my flying from my runway - I own it!

I feel badly for those many fine people who will be displaced by the closure of yet another airport, but everyone who rents or leases property knows the risks.

So when I fly down your way truthteller, I'm still smiling as I look down, thinking of you stuck in traffic, between two loud motorcycles, and enjoying my freedom of being above the congestion of a growing city. Of course, for reasons of safety and community courtesy, I maintain at least the minimum safe altitudes, but I'll fine the prop a bit just for you...
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Re: 60 story Condo planned for Buttonville . . .

Post by g_goo_goo »

Yeah, I agree with Truthteller, I almost smashed into another car while driving up Woodbine because I could not keep my eyes off the aircraft landing onto 33... The airport is dangerous. If the build another 60 story eyesore maybe that will keep my eyes on the traffic.
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