SFO to HNL (Honolulu) VFR or IFR?

[1000 HP]

Many areas of the world do not require ocean crossing pilots to be IFR certified or file and IFR flightplan. Any first hand experience out there with the US regulations flying from San Francisco to Honolulu? I'll be low anyways. My bird has a VFR GPS and two ILSs but no ADF or DME. I'm running out of panel space. Also, is an HF radio Mandatory or can a guy use VHF? I'll have a waterproof satphone with me. I'm searching websites but it is a gruelling process..

[CpnCrunch]

Probably a good idea to take a handheld backup GPS with you as well.

What type of plane are you flying?

[Beefitarian]

Have you considered taking the long way?

There's a pretty good account of a guy taking a twin otter across.
http://www.avcanada.ca/forums2/viewtopi ... an+Islands


Although it might be a giant hassle and getting 100LL might be nearly impossible. I bet it would be more interesting.

[North Shore]

How can there be any 'FR', either 'V' or 'I' between SFO and HNL?

It's open ocean - there's no roads to follow!




This sounds like an interesting trip you're planning - post pictures, please.

[Colonel Sanders]

I'm not sure it makes much difference whether you go VFR
or IFR. I think if you're above 5000 they want you IFR over
the North Atlantic.

Main thing is to have lots of gas in your Mooney. Don't know
if you've had the wings punched out to 100 gallons - I hope
you don't have the bladders, they reduce the fuel capacity.

Consider a ferry tank in the fuselage - and make sure it works!
Pay special attention to proper venting, and have a really solid
electric boost pump - you might need to run it more than you
thought. It's almost 2100 nm so that's at around 15 hours so
that's over 200 gallons you want to have on board. You're
going to need a big fuselage tank.

I hope you have an autopilot. That's going to be a pretty
long flight to hand-fly. At least two or three GPS's with lots
of batteries and extra power sources (eg sealed motorcycle
battery).

How I spot islands is the clouds over them.

[dashx]

http://www.worldwideferry.com/About_Us.php

http://www.wwaf.ca/specialties.htm

[1000 HP]

Yes I'll have a couple of handheld GPS's, a handheld VHF, a good liferaft, and a bottle or water The aircraft is a Mooney. The trip is not a sure thing. I'm waiting on the company to give me the full time work. I can't sell my airplane so I may as well take it with me and keep it flying. A little adventure never hurt nobody.
I need to modify the wings for the long range fuel, plus put the turtlepac 100 gallon tank in the fuselage. That will give me 190 gallons total or about 18 hours. I heard fuel is tough to get the southern route, but the northern route has horrow stories of $3500 landing fees in Russia etc. Plus, if I do get wet, I'd rather do it down south. The autopilot is nearly functional and only needs new servos. At $160 each x 4 that is a cheap repair.
I'm going to replace several of the parts like alternator, fuel pumps, and also the oil cooler before the trip. I'm doing the pilot side panel now to make it IFR and will update the engine instrument panel next. I'm also planning to put Aveo lighting in and an LED landing light to reduce the electrical load.
I asked about VFR or IFR more for departure regulations. I know in Canada for the north atlantic route it is a must to be IFR certified in order to get departure clearance.
Keep the helpful stuff coming.

[Cat Driver]

Have you looked at putting it on a cargo ship wrapped in waterproof plastic wrap?

[Ramjet555]

I've known quite a few "Ferry Pilots", they are all now dead.

One went for swimming with the sharks twice in the pacific before giving up ferrying the pacific.

SFO to HNL is the longest leg and its at the end of that leg that most
ditchings occur.

Fuel feed problems, mistakes are realized until the last tank change occurs
and its too late to the mechanic out to fix the simple problem that can't be fixed in the air.

Professional ferry tank installers are way to go. Cessna 172's were regular, even Cessna 150's have
done the slow flight. Beech A36, PA31's all do it regularly.

One guy had a Citation, and regularly landed on one engine after running out of fuel.
He too is now dead, flew into a cumulogranitous with 10 local government officials on board,
another example of single pilot IFR.

Sounds like you are very well prepared and thought of most equipment needs etc.

Now, why do you want to fly the pacific in a Mooney?

[Sidebar]

Fuel feed problems, mistakes are realized until the last tank change occurs and its too late to the mechanic out to fix the simple problem that can't be fixed in the air.

I need to modify the wings for the long range fuel, plus put the turtlepac 100 gallon tank in the fuselage. That will give me 190 gallons total or about 18 hours. ... The autopilot is nearly functional and only needs new servos. ... I'm going to replace several of the parts like alternator, fuel pumps, and also the oil cooler before the trip. I'm doing the pilot side panel now to make it IFR and will update the engine instrument panel next. I'm also planning to put Aveo lighting in and an LED landing light to reduce the electrical load.

Make sure all this gear is thoroughly test flown before you go feet wet. Also make sure all the operating procedures are well validated.

[1000 HP]

I've known quite a few "Ferry Pilots", they are all now dead.

Now, why do you want to fly the pacific in a Mooney?

Well, I've got the opportunity to make some good bucks, full time, can't sell my airplane, don't really want to, and would hate to leave it sitting in a hanger collecting corrosion. Better on the ramp, or flying it's ass off, collecting corrosion

And for sure, I'll put about 50 hours on the new goodies before heading west. I'd go the Russky route, but I have not found a single hit on avgas available, plus ditching in the North Pacific sounds gross.

[1000 HP]

Have you looked at putting it on a cargo ship wrapped in waterproof plastic wrap?

The wing is made in one piece so it would be expensive. Plus, have you ever watched the folks down here unload ships? We get damaged stuff all the time.

And the big one: Where's the adventure in that?

[Colonel Sanders]

The main thing you need to do is to make sure that the
ferry tank(s) in the fuselage feed fuel - all of it. All too
often, there is fuel that the pilot can't get to the engine
and that doesn't end well.

I cannot emphasize enough the importance of proper
venting (ie pressurization) of the ferry tanks, and the
use of aux boost pumps to help things along "just in case".

As mentioned above, make a 2100nm flight over land
first, and make sure that everything works as advertised.

Typically what I do is start and taxi on the ferry tanks -
make sure they feed. At least when they're full! Then
switch to the aircraft fuel system before the runup and
use it for the takeoff. After you have 1000 feet, switch
to the ferry tank and run it dry (eg 100 gallons). Then
switch to the aircraft fuel system, and you now have
full tanks (eg another 100 gallons).

Longtime delivery pilots will just run the ferry tank dry and
let the engine cut out. The prop will windmill. I don't
care how many hours you have in your logbook, when
that happens out over the water it gets your attention.

What I do is use the fuel totalizer - you MUST have one.
When the fuel gets close to exhausted in the ferry tank,
watch the fuel pressure needle. Get the electric boost
pump on. As soon as the mechanical fuel pressure needle
starts to wiggle, switch to the aircraft fuel system. The
engine won't even fart, and you will only have a few ounces
left in the ferry tank. It's a lot easier on your heart - not
running the fuel system totally dry. You can if you want,
though - any certified aircraft can run the fuel system
totally dry on one tank and will refill when you switch
tanks. It may take a few seconds, however.

[I WAS Birddog]

It's been done before...and is a common thing now a days...
SFO direct HNL $374.00 one way. Taxes in.

Just sayin'

[ahramin]

To answer the original question, depends on your altitude. Oakland Oceanic is class A FL55 to FL600. You will need an HF radio and approved LRN system.

Otherwise you can go VFR down low.

[hawker driver]

A little tip a friend taught me on my first Pacific crossing.

When it was clear he would look out for cargo ships and get a LAT LONG of their position and direction.

If something happened and we were not going to make it to Hawaii or were unable to make it back to the mainland he said we would try to head for the LAT LONG of the closest ship and try to ditch in front of it after buzzing it. I don't know how realistic it is but when you are over all that water it sure sounded good to me.

[CpnCrunch]

I think you basically need to assume you'll end up in the water and prepare for that. At the very least you'll need to rent a liferaft with a roof, have either a 406 ELT with GPS or a PLB, and it's probably a good idea to wear a lifejacket the entire time.

[1000 HP]

Sounds like a good idea. I was planning on the liferaft with a roof. The life jacket should be ok but I won't be wearing the immersion suit down south that's for sure. I'd die of heatstroke. I did find a nice little portable HF unit that comes in a pelican case for $4500 plus the wire antennae install. I'm trying to keep the weight down so I'm on the treadmill for 4.0 km per day. I figure I can lose enough to allow the extra weight for HF

[pelmet]

A quick suggestion about fuel management based on the experience of a fellow I ferried an aircraft for once. I agreed to ferry a Cirrus to Europe for his company a few years back. A couple of weeks prior to ferrying the plane, while over the pacific on my way to Hawaii for a vacation, I decided to read the Globe and Mail. In there was a story of a small aircraft that had to declare a fuel emergency on a flight to Ireland and just barely made it.

Turns out that that the owner of the company was using his fuel from the ferry tank with wing tanks full. Not all fuel from the ferry tank was going to the engine as more is supplied than the engine can use(which is normal for many airplanes) and as usual, the extra fuel was returning to the wing tanks. Except that normally, you are decreasing the fuel in the wing tanks at a greater rate than the return fuel is filling them. But in this case, the wing tanks were full already and staying that way. So the returned fuel was leaking out of either the caps or vents and being lost for a long time. This can happen on many aircraft with multiple tanks but following POH procedures will prevent it. On an aircraft with a ferry fuel system, you may be on your own for figuring out how to use the system.

Always know where your fuel is returning to. When I ferried a Socata Trinidad to Tarbes, France from Wilkes-Barre, Pennsylvania, I would use the main tanks down to a certain level, then use ferry tank fuel, then when the main tanks INCREASED to a relatively high level, switched back to main fuel tanks, then when main tanks got below a certain level, back to ferry tank fuel, etc.

Also be careful if you decide to fill up your ferry tank that is inside the cockpit while parked. I remember from flight school days how the Cessna's would be fueled outside in the winter and then put in the warm hangar. The fuel would expand and buckets were placed under the vent where a significant amount of fuel dripped out into the bucked. On arrival in Goose Bay in the afternoon, I almost filled the ferry tank for the next days flight. The next morning I woke up early and full of worry that this fuel may have expanded and poured out into the cabin. Thank goodness all was OK when I got to the airport and this had not happened.

Remember that as you climb with a fuel tank in the cockpit with a vent in the cockpit, the air in the ferry tank expands and you get a strong sense of fuel smell(Are you a smoker?). This should stop once level. On descent it would be the opposite. Normally there should be a vent to the outside but it didn't work for that group of flights.

[Colonel Sanders]

the extra fuel was returning to the wing tanks

There is no substitute for systems knowledge. What you are
describing is the return line for the fuel injection system, as
is commonly see on Continental (TCM) engines, such as the
GTSIO-520 engines in the 421B's that I fly. They have this
problem in spades. If you are too quick to switch over to the
aux tanks, you will see blue mist blow out the fuel vents of
the main tanks as they refill and overflow.

The OP is describing a flight in a Mooney with a Lycoming,
IIRC. I have about 400 hours in an M20J, and a lot more
hours behind various other fuel-injected Lycomings, none
of which have a return line in their fuel injection system,
so they don't have this problem.

In this sort of venture, you have an awful lot riding on your
Rube Goldberg fuel system working correctly, so it behooves
you to understand it in great detail. I cannot emphasize
enough little details like venting/pressurization of the ferry
tanks, the importance of good aux boost pumps, the height
of the fuel tanks (head), the design of the pickups inside
the fuel tanks, etc.

It would be suicidal to head out over the water without doing
at least one or two dry runs (over land) to test out the ferry
tanks. Keeping track of what's used from various tanks
should really be written down. A fuel totalizer is required
equipment, IMHO, with times written down as to when you
switched tanks. Keep it simple. You're going to be pretty
tired at the end of the flight, so make it easy on yourself.

[1000 HP]

All this info is great. I'm taking my sweet time getting the bird ready. I've decided to order the Monroy wing tank mod that gives me a 100 USG total in the wings rather than the factory 64. I'll test them out first with a couple of non-stoppers to the limit keeping a healthy reserve. I'm planning on putting in a EDM 930 to replace all the old engine gauges which should help me lean properly for max distance and min gph as well as to discover any iffy cylinders. If any mechanics in the west end of the country have experience on the install of this $3000 kit, please PM me.

If any Mooney owners have any info on these tanks and getting the mod, let me know how it went...

[Colonel Sanders]

Was going to do the 100 gallon wing mod on
the M20J but I was told that since it was recently
corrosion-X'd it was not possible, at least not for
a couple of years. So, don't do that.

[Edo]

......I'm planning on putting in a EDM 930 to replace all the old engine gauges which should help me lean properly for max distance and min gph as well as to discover any iffy cylinders...

Are you going to run lean of peak?

[1000 HP]

I'm thinking about it. I am a little chicken about doing things with an engine that I have never done before. I suppose that would involve Gami injectors and some practice..

I can get down to 10.8 US gph 100 deg rich of peak as is but I only cruise at 142 kts. My total fuel load with the Turtlepac will be 200 US gallons so that would be 18.5 hrs or 2629 miles with no headwind and no unusable fuel and no reserve. Not too realistic. I will have to shave down the weight of the airplane and myself and also do some oil consumption testing. Lots of fuel and no oil would be bad

I'd love to step up to a faster Mooney but airplanes are hard to sell right now and every dollar I put into my bird makes it that much harder to accept the loss. Might as well make it work.

SFO to HNL should be the longest leg of my journey. My destination is Balikpapan Indonesia. I've got 6 months to a year to get it all together according to management.

[Edo]

Given the expected endurance you have and the mods you are already doing, gami makes sense. They offer seminars and (i think) online courses, Some guys drop 2-3 usg per hour running LOP. Even if you drop 1 GPH your endurance gain is measured in HOURS