Some Questions

[noalternate]

Hi,

I’m trying to imagine the life at Air Canada as a junior FO, and have questions. Maybe some of you will help me in my decision to do the move or not. The more I think about it, the less I think it’s a good move for me....

1- I have read a starting pay of 51500 based on 80 hours, during the interview they’re talking about 42000, who’s right?

2- Is commuting between YUL and YYZ satisfactory, quality of life speaking?

3- What is the price a SBY ticket YUL-YYZ, YWG, YVR?

4- How many days in Toronto I have to expect as a junior FO if you live in YUL.

5- When they call you for a GS, can you ask which positions are opened.

6- For someone who wants to be in Montreal, how much time is to be expected before being based in YUL.

7- Do some FO live in YUL and are actually based in YVR or YWG.

8- Let say you live in YUL and your Base is Toronto, does AC will pay for YUL employes car parking?

9- Any RRSP contribution from Air Can, any profit sharing, how does it work for retirement plan?

10- Is the family covered by the medical care as soon as you start.

11- Are you paid as soon as you start the GS, and do they provide you accommodation, per diem during that time?

12- Do you have cell, clothes, cleaning allocations?

Thank you for your help, an undecided guy!!!

[smnoi]

I'll answer your questions thinking about mainline as we don't know exactly what the Low Cost conditions will be.

1- Mainline year 1 salary is currently 50.27 per hour. As a new hire, you often start on reserve and the minimum monthly guaranteed hours change every month but the absolute minimum is 65. So minimum monthly 3267.55 not including any perdiems.

2- Depends on everyone. It sure is better not to commute but YUL being a smaller base, you will usually have better schedules out of YYZ and get out of reserve quicker.

3- With the new rules, a roundtrip YUL-YYZ is about 60$. Forget YWG, you won't get it as a new hire and YUL-YVR is about 80$

4- If you're on reserve, you'll get 12 days off per month but never more than 4 at the time so commuting can be a pain. If you're able to get a block, you will work maximum 16 days on the EMJ and 320 so if you can concentrate your flying, it won't be so bad.

5- They might not even know until you sit in the GS depending on your timing with the bids

6- Depends on your timing, at this time, YUL has 8 open spots but it can change quickly

7- No idea

8- Car parking is a taxable benefit so AC pays for it and it becomes part of your salary so you pay some taxes on it but yeah you decide where you want to park

9- New hire are part of a defined contribution plan.

10- Yes

11- You are paid as soon as you start GS, they provide accomodations and perdiems.

12- You get a cleaning allocation every month. You also get an annual allocation for shoes, medical, passport and I might be forgetting some but no cell

All of this is subject to change in the next contract

[Eric Janson]

Some more perspective in this thread

http://www.avcanada.ca/forums2/viewtopi ... 31&t=83294

Good luck with your choice

[Xander]

On my GS back in feb 2012 they provided "accomodations" but no perdiems.

For what its worth, In the last equipment bid I saw maybe 6 open spots on the EMJ FO in Montreal.

[smnoi]

On my GS back in feb 2012 they provided "accomodations" but no perdiems.

For what its worth, In the last equipment bid I saw maybe 6 open spots on the EMJ FO in Montreal.

They started giving perdiems with the new contract in August 2012

There are also 2 spots on the 320 which brings the total to 8 spots in YUL right now

[cj555]

Great thread!

I have a question along the lines of career progression for a junior FO.

I understand that new hires ususally bid FO on EMJ (or RP on B767, B777 etc). Assuming a new hire bids FO EMJ, what kind of career progression could be expected, and what are the pros and cons of each?

From what I have learned, a new hire is frozen on type for the first 4 years, and then has 2 options:

Stay on the EMJ 175/190 and build up seniority OR bid up to an FO position on bigger equipment (A320/767 etc).

An an example: Bidding up to the A320 from the EMJ (after 4 years) would mean a pay cut and loss of seniority in the short term, but in the long term would mean higher pay and better routes on the bigger equipment.

The question then becomes lifestyle vs pay.

However, I also hear that upgrades on the EMJ are faster, and if a left seat comes avialable on the EMJ after you move up, you wouldn't be able to take it. Is it true that Capt upgrades on the EMJ are given to the senior FO on the EMJ? For example, if you are an FO on the A320 and want to bid on the Capt position on the EMJ, would you only get it if no FO's on the EMJ bid before you? Another thing to consider is that, upgrades on the A320 (or bigger equipement) are 15 - 20 years out. Depending on your age of hire you might never see the left seat of a bigger aircraft. In that case, you'd be better off going for Capt on the EMJ?

I would imagine that the best career progression for someone hired in their 30's would be:

EMJ for the first 4 years,
Bid up to FO on the A320/A340 etc (if your lifestyle can handle the paycut/loss of seniority)
Bid back to Capt on the EMJ if it becomes available.

Does this make sense an idea of what a career progression at AC could look like?

[noalternate]

Some more perspective in this thread

http://www.avcanada.ca/forums2/viewtopi ... 31&t=83294

Good luck with your choice

Luck indeed. Sound like luck will make the difference between a good or a bad move. Commuting or not. The extra cash you lose with commuting will probably make the difference for me...

[smnoi]

Great thread!

I have a question along the lines of career progression for a junior FO.

I understand that new hires ususally bid FO on EMJ (or RP on B767, B777 etc). Assuming a new hire bids FO EMJ, what kind of career progression could be expected, and what are the pros and cons of each?

From what I have learned, a new hire is frozen on type for the first 4 years, and then has 2 options:

Stay on the EMJ 175/190 and build up seniority OR bid up to an FO position on bigger equipment (A320/767 etc).

An an example: Bidding up to the A320 from the EMJ (after 4 years) would mean a pay cut and loss of seniority in the short term, but in the long term would mean higher pay and better routes on the bigger equipment.

The question then becomes lifestyle vs pay.

However, I also hear that upgrades on the EMJ are faster, and if a left seat comes avialable on the EMJ after you move up, you wouldn't be able to take it. Is it true that Capt upgrades on the EMJ are given to the senior FO on the EMJ? For example, if you are an FO on the A320 and want to bid on the Capt position on the EMJ, would you only get it if no FO's on the EMJ bid before you? Another thing to consider is that, upgrades on the A320 (or bigger equipement) are 15 - 20 years out. Depending on your age of hire you might never see the left seat of a bigger aircraft. In that case, you'd be better off going for Capt on the EMJ?

I would imagine that the best career progression for someone hired in their 30's would be:

EMJ for the first 4 years,
Bid up to FO on the A320/A340 etc (if your lifestyle can handle the paycut/loss of seniority)
Bid back to Capt on the EMJ if it becomes available.

Does this make sense an idea of what a career progression at AC could look like?

Equipment bidding goes with your seniority # so the more senior you are and the best are your chances of getting what you want. As for the pay, it changes with your years of service. For the first 4 years, you will get the applicable pay no matter which equipment you're on. For exemple, if you'be been with the company for 3 years, you will get the 3rd year rate no matter if you're an EMJ FO or a 320 FO. After the first 4 years, the bigger the equipment is and and more you get paid so upgrading from the EMJ to the 320 would be a pay raise but you would have less people below you on that equipment so harder to get the schedule you want...

Again, this is for mainline only as LCC will have socialized bidding and we don't know the details yet...

[Skyhunter]

Is someone willing to share details of the new DC pension plan. IE how much does the company put in, is a matching system? Thanks in advance.

[noalternate]

I'll answer your questions thinking about mainline as we don't know exactly what the Low Cost conditions will be.


9- New hire are part of a defined contribution plan.

How does it work ?, just a general idea.

[noalternate]

I'll answer your questions thinking about mainline as we don't know exactly what the Low Cost conditions will be.

1- Mainline year 1 salary is currently 50.27 per hour. As a new hire, you often start on reserve and the minimum monthly guaranteed hours change every month but the absolute minimum is 65. So minimum monthly 3267.55 not including any perdiems.

Ouch

[DBC]

I'll answer your questions thinking about mainline as we don't know exactly what the Low Cost conditions will be.

1- Mainline year 1 salary is currently 50.27 per hour. As a new hire, you often start on reserve and the minimum monthly guaranteed hours change every month but the absolute minimum is 65. So minimum monthly 3267.55 not including any perdiems.

Ouch

Slight addition, 65 would be the lowest month to month. However, min reserve would average 68 hours a month per year.

Not like that's much better though.

[ratherbee]

The DC Pension has two "Components": Basic and Supplementary.

The Basic is where the Company matches 100% of the employee's contribution which is 3% to 6% of their salary.

The Supplementary kicks in after two years of employment and the Company adds another 37.5% of the employee's Basic contribution. Then after 5 years, the Company increases their contribution to the Supplementary Component to 75% of the Basic contribution.

[ratherbee]

Reserve sucks so the best plan is to be a blockholder asap, imo.

If one is a little more optimistic and hopes that we continue to grow and hire, averaging 80 hours a month of flying is not unrealistic at all.

Anyone hired this year will get the 3% raise in April so that inches the hourly rate up to $51.78 for a yearly salary (based on 80 hours/month) of $49,708. Add ART and SIM pay (4 hours per day) and you break the 50G barrier.

Narrow-body meal expenses are around $600/month and you also get allowances for medicals, passports, and shoes. The uniform including all the bells and whistles are fully paid by AC. You also get a shiny new suitcase every four years.

I wish the overall compensation was higher but one more thing to remember is that a good Captain won't let you buy any beer until you're off flat salary.

[noalternate]

I'll answer your questions thinking about mainline as we don't know exactly what the Low Cost conditions will be.

1- Mainline year 1 salary is currently 50.27 per hour. As a new hire, you often start on reserve and the minimum monthly guaranteed hours change every month but the absolute minimum is 65. So minimum monthly 3267.55 not including any perdiems.

Ouch

Slight addition, 65 would be the lowest month to month. However, min reserve would average 68 hours a month per year.

Not like that's much better though.

But I immagine that it's almost impossible to have no flight during a reserve block, right?

[noalternate]

Reserve sucks so the best plan is to be a blockholder asap, imo.

If one is a little more optimistic and hopes that we continue to grow and hire, averaging 80 hours a month of flying is not unrealistic at all.

Anyone hired this year will get the 3% raise in April so that inches the hourly rate up to $51.78 for a yearly salary (based on 80 hours/month) of $49,708. Add ART and SIM pay (4 hours per day) and you break the 50G barrier.

Narrow-body meal expenses are around $600/month and you also get allowances for medicals, passports, and shoes. The uniform including all the bells and whistles are fully paid by AC. You also get a shiny new suitcase every four years.

I wish the overall compensation was higher but one more thing to remember is that a good Captain won't let you buy any beer until you're off flat salary.

Yep I understand for the block but I guess you can't tell when you will be able to have one. But when you say 80h it's actual flight time or duty time?

[ratherbee]

If the airline stops hiring then you could be stuck where you are for years. If we get more wide-bodies then we should continue to hire.

It's 80 hours of flight time, planned deadhead half pay, unplanned deadhead full pay, minimum of 4:25 per day.

[cj555]

Reserve sucks so the best plan is to be a blockholder asap, imo.

Could you explain the difference between reserve and blockholder?

[TheStig]

Reserve sucks so the best plan is to be a blockholder asap, imo.

Could you explain the difference between reserve and blockholder?

Reserve pilots are on call, Blockholders have published schedules.

[cj555]

Reserve sucks so the best plan is to be a blockholder asap, imo.

Could you explain the difference between reserve and blockholder?

Reserve pilots are on call, Blockholders have published schedules.

Ahh okay, I understand.

So that means when you bid up onto bigger equipment, you go back on reserve?

How long could you expect to be on reserve as a new hire (FO on EMJ 175/190)?

How long could you expect to be on reserve as a new FO on the A320 (when bidding up from EMJ to A320)?

[cj555]

Reserve sucks so the best plan is to be a blockholder asap, imo.

Can you elabourate a littel bit on what it is like being on reserve?

I have heard some bad things about life on reserve, is it really that unbearable? What is the worst thing about being on reserve?

[TheStig]

Ahh okay, I understand.

So that means when you bid up onto bigger equipment, you go back on reserve?

How long could you expect to be on reserve as a new hire (FO on EMJ 175/190)?

How long could you expect to be on reserve as a new FO on the A320 (when bidding up from EMJ to A320)?

How long a pilot spends on reserve depends on their choices. When bidding into higher paying positions some pilots will wait until their seniority allows them to avoid reserve, while others will bid positions as soon as their seniority allows them to hold a higher rated (paying) position. There are many pilots at Air Canada who have not spent much time on reserve at all while others have spent the majority of their careers on reserve.

Reserve flying and schedules are awarded according to seniority, and while typically the pilots on reserve tend to be the most junior for any given position, some senior pilots request to be on reserve as it allows them to get days off they might not have otherwise had or flying routes they typically wouldn't do.

So long as the airline continues to hire at a steady pace pilots will not be forced to stay on reserve for an extended period of time. As mentioned, when/if the music stops some pilots will enjoy an extended period of time on reserve if they choose not to downbid to a lower position.

[vic777]

Don't commute, that will solve a lot of problems. Live where you are based.

[noalternate]

Don't commute, that will solve a lot of problems. Live where you are based.

I don't want to move...

[Mr. North]

Great thread!

I would like to work at AC but I'm not quite ready yet. I have all the hours but there are still a few personal goals I want to achieve at my current employer before I move on. I'm guessing I'll be ready to make the jump in 1-2 years. That being said, should I apply right now even though I'm not ready to move up? I don't want to get called for an interview prematurely. If I declined to have an interview or lets say I went all the way and declined their job offer, how does that impact my future chances with AC?

It may sound funny to some but I'm in no real rush to get on the airlines as I really enjoy what I do now. But when I am ready, it would be nice to make the jump as quickly as possible and under the most favorable conditions.