Resumes and Cover Letters Redux

Got a hot employment or interview tip to help a fellow aviator find a job or looking for a little job advice place your posting here.

Moderators: ahramin, sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, North Shore

Message
Author
Ville
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 43
Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2009 6:41 pm

Re: Resumes and Cover Letters Redux

#26 Post by Ville » Mon Mar 01, 2010 5:49 pm

What do you guys think about including M.A. and B.A. after your name at the top of the resume? Also, do people put CPL Multi IFR after their name?
Thanks
---------- ADS -----------

User avatar
xsbank
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 5654
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2004 4:00 pm
Location: "The Coast"

Re: Resumes and Cover Letters Redux

#27 Post by xsbank » Mon Mar 01, 2010 7:06 pm

Modern days are seeing some changes but traditionally you only put a post-grad degree behind your name, so MA would be correct. However, if you are looking for a bush or beginner job, the degree after your name may be seen as pretentious and might be a detriment. Definitely do NOT put your flying credentials behind your name because despite your pride in accomplishing those goals, they are not recognised credentials nor are we considered professionals yet so we cannot do the pilot equivalent of P.Eng. Maybe once we get a college?
---------- ADS -----------
"What's it doing now?"
"Fly low and slow and throttle back in the turns."

Ville
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 43
Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2009 6:41 pm

Re: Resumes and Cover Letters Redux

#28 Post by Ville » Mon Mar 01, 2010 9:51 pm

Thanks xsbank. Also, appreciate your thread in general. :D I've been tailoring my resume all day and your examples have been really helpful. I will also heed your advice regarding the degrees.
---------- ADS -----------

User avatar
xsbank
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 5654
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2004 4:00 pm
Location: "The Coast"

Re: Resumes and Cover Letters Redux

#29 Post by xsbank » Tue Mar 02, 2010 10:21 am

I'm glad this stuff is useful - just remember it is only one of our tools to find a job. Probably more than any other industry, personal appearances are important; apply for every job that you WANT, not just those that you think you can qualify for. That's saved me in a few career moves in the past.
---------- ADS -----------
"What's it doing now?"
"Fly low and slow and throttle back in the turns."

Ville
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 43
Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2009 6:41 pm

Re: Resumes and Cover Letters Redux

#30 Post by Ville » Tue Mar 09, 2010 11:34 pm

back to working on my resume... I saw you mentioned including your licence number in your resume. Can I ask why is that? Can they tell something by my licence number I should know about? (i.e. how much I can BS about my qualifications :wink: joking!)
Another question: Someone said not to bother applying for a position you are not qualified for. Let's say they want 1000TT for FO's and you have 250. Could you send them a resume saying you understand you aren't qualified, but you are willing to put in your dues to eventually move up, or is this just wasting everyone's time?
Thanks again!
---------- ADS -----------

User avatar
xsbank
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 5654
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2004 4:00 pm
Location: "The Coast"

Re: Resumes and Cover Letters Redux

#31 Post by xsbank » Wed Mar 10, 2010 3:54 pm

I think that a license is so intrinsic to what we do that it adds a solidity to a resume - you need to do what you think works for you.

I got 2 jobs in my history that "I was not qualified for." I happen to think that anyone can be qualified for any position, given the willingness of the trainer and the ability to absorb by the candidate. A lot of times the employer doesn't really know what he wants besides a warm body to do the work, so why not give him more choice?

Bottom line and to repeat myself, there are no rules for this, do what works best for you.
---------- ADS -----------
"What's it doing now?"
"Fly low and slow and throttle back in the turns."

Ville
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 43
Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2009 6:41 pm

Re: Resumes and Cover Letters Redux

#32 Post by Ville » Wed Mar 10, 2010 7:41 pm

Ok, sounds good. Thanks again for your help. On to the cover letter...
---------- ADS -----------

GTODD
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 36
Joined: Tue Dec 29, 2009 7:33 pm
Location: Alberta

Re: Resumes and Cover Letters Redux

#33 Post by GTODD » Sat Mar 20, 2010 11:47 pm

What do you guys think about including M.A. and B.A. after your name at the top of the resume?
I recall in university we were forced to take a technical writing course. In this course we spent a lot of time “learning” how to write effective resumes and cover letters. I recall the instructor stressing quite adamantly that yes you should include B.A. or B.Sc. after your name once you finished your undergraduate degree.

I guess what frustrates me is that this guy got paid a lot of money to just essentially give us his opinion on how a resume should look. I don’t think there is an answer that is always right for this question; it just depends on what the person who will be reading it thinks.
---------- ADS -----------

Dhc6to8
Rank 2
Rank 2
Posts: 66
Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2009 2:39 am

Re: Resumes and Cover Letters Redux

#34 Post by Dhc6to8 » Fri Apr 02, 2010 10:51 am

Hi XS et al,
Thanks for posting all this valuable information. I have always limited my resume to one page, but after reading this I will have another look at what I have put together - and get it all sorted! The funny thing is, when I got to 500 hours total time, I never believed I would reach 1000 hours, when I pushed 5000 hours I still couldn't believe it... now that I am within a go/around or two of 10000 hours I still can't believe it! But the strangest thing is that now that I have the heavy turboprop command hours, medium jet command and a logbook that weights in with 85% PIC I am having problems finding a new job.... I can remember being told when I first started out that jobs would be easier to find once I had some time under my belt! Ja, right!! I guess it is much like fishing... if they ain't bitting, change the bait!
6to8
---------- ADS -----------

User avatar
supertramp737
Rank 0
Rank 0
Posts: 8
Joined: Fri Jul 02, 2010 2:32 pm

Re: Resumes and Cover Letters Redux

#35 Post by supertramp737 » Wed Sep 08, 2010 6:02 pm

I got 2 jobs in my history that "I was not qualified for."
Is that possible, regardless of insurance requirements?
---------- ADS -----------

User avatar
xsbank
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 5654
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2004 4:00 pm
Location: "The Coast"

Re: Resumes and Cover Letters Redux

#36 Post by xsbank » Thu Sep 09, 2010 2:38 pm

I'm living proof...
---------- ADS -----------
"What's it doing now?"
"Fly low and slow and throttle back in the turns."

User avatar
bubby
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 26
Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2010 6:38 pm

Re: Resumes and Cover Letters Redux

#37 Post by bubby » Thu Oct 28, 2010 7:28 pm

I have close to 5000 hrs and 20 years in the military. I'm trying to wrap my head around the resume thing. Do I just say 1990 to present - military pilot. And then list all the positions/jobs held including duties and responsibilities? Alternatively, should I break the dates down more based on postings from one "job" to another, including the duties, responsibilities and achievements. Last question...would you include simulator and instructional time? Should I also break out the small amount of civilian time from my military totals?

Thanks in advance
---------- ADS -----------

nortont
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 143
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 2:40 pm

Re: Resumes and Cover Letters Redux

#38 Post by nortont » Tue Dec 14, 2010 2:46 pm

When rounding hours for your resume.

How many hrs (5's, 10's) should you go round up too ??
---------- ADS -----------

User avatar
xsbank
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 5654
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2004 4:00 pm
Location: "The Coast"

Re: Resumes and Cover Letters Redux

#39 Post by xsbank » Tue Dec 14, 2010 4:05 pm

If you are brand new, be more rigid (67.8 hours 172 or 68?). Otherwise, use logic: 5,283.2 hours Beav. or 5300?

Keep it simple.
---------- ADS -----------
"What's it doing now?"
"Fly low and slow and throttle back in the turns."

User avatar
Panama Jack
Rank 11
Rank 11
Posts: 3158
Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2004 8:10 am
Location: The Sandbox

Re: Resumes and Cover Letters Redux

#40 Post by Panama Jack » Tue Mar 01, 2011 1:56 pm

Great post xsbank, nice of you to take the time to post it.

The last two pilot resumes I looked at were absolutely painful!

Also agree with ragbagflyer about the .pdf conversions.
---------- ADS -----------
“If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. If it stops moving, subsidize it.”
-President Ronald Reagan

WileyCoyote
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 120
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2007 9:29 pm
Location: Between a rock and a grain field...

Re: Resumes and Cover Letters Redux

#41 Post by WileyCoyote » Sat Mar 05, 2011 4:09 pm

Also, OpenOffice allows you to export your document as a .pdf. (And its free)
---------- ADS -----------

WileyCoyote
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 120
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2007 9:29 pm
Location: Between a rock and a grain field...

Re: Resumes and Cover Letters Redux

#42 Post by WileyCoyote » Mon Mar 07, 2011 10:36 am

Another question I had when looking for an entry level job was should I include other related skills? For example, I grew up doing farm work and construction, and fixing anything with an engine. I have a lot of skills unrelated to flying that would probably look great for a float job. How should I include these on my resume?
---------- ADS -----------

Speedbrakes
Rank 0
Rank 0
Posts: 13
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2007 2:58 pm
Location: Somewhere you ain't!

Re: Resumes and Cover Letters Redux

#43 Post by Speedbrakes » Tue Mar 08, 2011 8:58 am

Hi all,

This is a great thread!

Couple questions. Is it a good idea to mention the types of aircraft you've flown? I've got time on the DH7 and the DH6 and a few different other light aircraft.

Also I don't have my atpl yet but I've written the exams and now that I have a type rating on the DH7 my atpl is technically frozen so could I say "Frozen ATPL" instead of saying "ATPL Exams Written"? I only ask because from my experience having a "frozen atpl" isn't too common in Canada.

Thanks for the feedback,

Cheers,
Speedbrakes
---------- ADS -----------

goleafsgo
Rank 2
Rank 2
Posts: 92
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2011 10:13 pm

Re: Resumes and Cover Letters Redux

#44 Post by goleafsgo » Sun May 13, 2012 9:11 am

If I'm applying for a ramp to pilot position would it be better to send my "pilot" resume that lists all my hours, or send my "generic" resume that lists the ramp jobs that I've had in detail but doesn't include my hours or anything?
---------- ADS -----------

User avatar
xsbank
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 5654
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2004 4:00 pm
Location: "The Coast"

Re: Resumes and Cover Letters Redux

#45 Post by xsbank » Tue Jun 12, 2012 5:02 pm

I stole this from Time and I think there is some really good stuff in here, even though some of it is company-client not just resume-interview:

"Career Strategies
10 Ways You Should Never Describe Yourself To A Potential Client or Employer
When other people use these words to describe your talents, it's OK. When you do it, you just sound like a pompous jerk.
By Jeff Haden | June 12, 2012 | 1

Picture this: You meet someone new. “What do you do?” he asks.

“I’m an architect,” you say.

“Oh, really?” he answers. “Have you designed any buildings I’ve seen?”

“Maybe,” you reply. “We did the new library at the university…”

“Oh wow,” he says. “I’ve seen it. That’s a beautiful building…”

And you’re off. Maybe he’s a potential client, maybe not… but either way you’ve made a great impression.

You sound awesome.

Now picture this: You meet someone new. “What do you do?” he asks.

“I’m a passionate, innovative, dynamic provider of architectural services who uses a collaborative approach to create and deliver outstanding customer experiences.”

And he’s off, never to be seen again… because you sound like a pompous ass.

Do you–whether on your website, or more likely on social media accounts–describe yourself differently than you do in person?

Do you use hacky clichés and overblown superlatives and breathless adjectives?

Do you write things about yourself you would never have the nerve to actually say?

If so, it’s time for a change.

(MORE: How Much Does the Big Boss Really Matter? A Partial Defense of Jamie Dimon)

Here are some words that are great when used by other people to describe you, but you should never use to describe yourself:

“Motivated.”

Check out Chris Rock’s response (not safe for work or the politically correct) to people who say they take care of their kids. Then substitute the word “motivated.” Never take credit for things you are supposed to do–or be.

“Authority.”

If you have to say you’re an authority, you aren’t. Show your expertise instead. “Presenter at SXSW” or “Delivered TED Talk at Long Beach 2010″ indicates a level of authority. Unless you can prove it, “social media marketing authority” just means you spend a ton of time on Twitter.

“Global provider.”

The vast majority of businesses can sell goods or services worldwide; the ones that can’t–like restaurants–are obvious. (See?) Only use “global provider” if that capability is not assumed or obvious; otherwise you just sound like a really small company trying to appear really big.

“Innovative.”

Most companies claim to be innovative. Most people claim to be innovative. Most are not. (I’m not.) That’s okay, because innovation isn’t a requirement for success.

If you are innovative, don’t say it. Prove it. Describe the products you’ve developed. Describe the processes you’ve modified. Give us something real so your innovation is unspoken but evident… which is always the best kind of evident to be.

“Creative.”

See particular words often enough and they no longer make an impact. “Creative” is one of them. (Go to LinkedIn and check out some profiles; “creative” will appear in the majority.)

“Creative” is just one example. Others include extensive, effective, proven, dynamic, influential, team player, collaborative… some of those terms truly may describe you, but since they’re also being used to describe everyone else they’ve lost their impact.

(MORE: Bubba Watson helps to re-energize golf)

“Curator.”

Museums have curators. Libraries have curators. Tweeting links to stuff you find interesting doesn’t make you a curator… or an authority or a guru.

“Passionate.”

Say you’re incredibly passionate about incorporating an elegant design aesthetic in everyday objects and–to me at least–you sound a little scary. Same if you’re passionate about developing long-term customer solutions. Try focus, concentration, or specialization instead. Save the passion for your loved one.

“Unique.”

Fingerprints are unique. Snowflakes are unique. You are unique–but your business probably isn’t. Don’t pretend to be, because customers don’t care about unique; they care about “better.” Show how you’re better than the competition and in the minds of customers you will be unique.

”Guru.”

People who try to be clever for the sake of being clever are anything but. Don’t be a self-proclaimed ninja, sage, connoisseur, guerilla, wonk, egghead… it’s awesome when your customers affectionately describe you in that way, but when you do it it’s apparent you’re trying way too hard.

“Incredibly…”

Check out some random bios and you’ll find plenty of further-modified descriptors: “Incredibly passionate,” “profoundly insightful,” “extremely captivating…” isn’t it enough to be insightful or captivating? Do you have to be incredibly passionate?

If you must use over-the-top adjectives to describe yourself, at least spare us the further modification. Trust us; we already get it.

Jeff Haden learned much of what he knows about business and technology as he worked his way up in the manufacturing industry. Everything else he picks up from ghostwriting books for some of the smartest leaders he knows in business. @jeff_haden


Read more: http://www.inc.com/jeff-haden/10-ways-y ... z1xcurvCtA"
---------- ADS -----------

cbty
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 40
Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 6:40 am
Contact:

Re: Resumes and Cover Letters Redux

#46 Post by cbty » Sat Dec 29, 2012 1:04 pm

Others say that you should write Object : Flight Crew Position, which is the opposite of what someone said above (I don't know which one is the right step), then they say you should place just your aviation jobs and aviation education. Anything elese is not really important.
---------- ADS -----------
Last edited by cbty on Mon Sep 16, 2013 12:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

MCI
Rank 0
Rank 0
Posts: 1
Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2013 3:01 pm

Re: Resumes and Cover Letters Redux

#47 Post by MCI » Wed Jan 23, 2013 3:08 pm

What is the etiquette for including international references? For example, I lived in Europe for the last 3 years and my most recent references have international phone numbers. Would it be acceptable to include these in my resume or should I find more local references? What about US numbers?

Thanks.
---------- ADS -----------

tuskegee0147
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 30
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2013 2:54 pm

Re: Resumes and Cover Letters Redux

#48 Post by tuskegee0147 » Sun Feb 24, 2013 12:19 am

fresh out of university i was told by a technical writer that including gaps or dormant/ idle dates in your resume isn't good in any way(recruiters hate idleness)fill up all the dates to make sure you had no idle time i.e if you weren't working, you were schooling or doing some voluntary work.i believe employers don't like to see dates that a potential employee was idle.
Google is your best friend on this one, as they are a lot of templates to choose from ranging from the 250 hr pilot to the 10000hr captain. i believe a university degree is also very important in a resume as i was told that employers like to see an overachiever so to speak.At the end of the day its what works best for you but one thing i know is if you have a really good resume you get more calls and replies.
---------- ADS -----------

User avatar
xsbank
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 5654
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2004 4:00 pm
Location: "The Coast"

Re: Resumes and Cover Letters Redux

#49 Post by xsbank » Mon Feb 25, 2013 2:56 pm

It's quite true, I spent some time helping out a friend who had an employment agency. We graded the resumes A - F and started calling people at the A pile. The Fs were just tossed. They were graded on content, gaps, references, education, suitability and literacy (spelling, grammar and formats, etc). Any gaps were flagged and investigated. Education appropriate to the position, ie degrees for management and secretarial school for the clerks. Generally speaking. I would not have my current job without my degree, but then, I don't actually use it except for how it taught me to think and analyse but the subject matter is obsolete, largely. The guy I work for does not have a degree, so there you go.

To answer the previous poster, very late, sorry, the answer is yes. Credibility demands contacts as a serious, better employer will check.
---------- ADS -----------

Big Pistons Forever
Rank 11
Rank 11
Posts: 4907
Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2004 7:17 pm
Location: West Coast

Re: Resumes and Cover Letters Redux

#50 Post by Big Pistons Forever » Wed Aug 13, 2014 5:09 pm

I was recently cleaning out my deleted box and came across a resume that had been e-mailed to me. It had most of the things in it that XSbank said not to do. The most egregious was the HR baffle gab like


To my next chief pilot,
My name is A Newbie and over the past year and a half I have been an Instructor at the XYZ flight school. I am a graduate of the ABC College program and it was there, I was introduced to and educated on an industry that has captured my imagination since childhood. To be a successful student within this program, due to the time constraints and its intensive nature, a student must exercise organization, professionalism, and most importantly safety-oriented decision making. With this philosophy I managed to be the first person among my classmates to complete my MIFR Rating. I also received the top pilot award from ABC College. I continue to apply this same work ethic which is why I am now the youngest Class 2 supervising Multi/IFR instructor working at the flying school.


It goes on for another half page of meaningless platitudes.

However that was not what got it immediately sent to the trash. What caused the instant rejection was the fact that this persons first reference was from an individual widely recognized as an idiot.

Aviation is a small business and people (and organizations) soon get known and get a reputation. There are a few names that would get pretty much guarantee an interview and of course others like the one in question that are poison.

The same goes for operators. I don't care if you have Sully Sullinberger as your reference, if you worked for Toronto sky dive flying their "wide body C 182's", you won't get hired. Don't take the easy way and buy your job, in the long run it will often hurt you.

So work hard to impress those pilots that seem to be the ones that get listened to, or who you hear the respectful comments. Their favorable comments when contacted on the reference check are pure gold.

To add to XSbanks excellent advice


My 02 cents for lower time pilots.

Keep to one page, round all your time down to the nearest 5 hours, instead of saying you have 17.6 hrs of MEIFR say you 15, lose the say nothing platitudes, and finish with a statement that you understand you are still a wannabe and will work hard, keep your eyes and ears wide open and your mouth shut.

Finally think long and hard about who would be your best reference.
---------- ADS -----------

Post Reply

Return to “Employment Forum”