...provided of course that the hopeful pilot is aware of the hundreds of others who will take that job as soon as they become aware of it. ...and the ramifications therefore, for his treatment as an indisposable employee of said company... 
Why I Got Out of Aviation
Moderators: sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, lilfssister, North Shore, I WAS Birddog
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Mitch Cronin
- Rank 8
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- Location: Right beside my dog again...
Good points Dockjock. ...But you would expect imagination to work reasonably accurately for that job flying a 172 in timbuktamungaming... ...provided of course that the hopeful pilot is aware of the hundreds of others who will take that job as soon as they become aware of it. ...and the ramifications therefore, for his treatment as an indisposable employee of said company...
...provided of course that the hopeful pilot is aware of the hundreds of others who will take that job as soon as they become aware of it. ...and the ramifications therefore, for his treatment as an indisposable employee of said company... -
The Black Hole
- Rank 1
- Posts: 27
- Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 9:52 am
It might have something to do with their religious values as to why we don't have what is owed to us. It's all in the church... I'm sorry to sound harsh but that's nothing compared to the bad taste in my mouth.Ludacris wrote: I ask you to look deep within yourselves, deep within your moral and religious values and set things right with your past employees before taking on the awesome responsibility of running another airline.
And to all the ex K9 peop's. I miss all ya'll. I look forward to running into ya's somewhere down the line.
Hey "Goodtimes" your post is a keeper. It sounds like you've got a good grip. Live well, as you are. Those pictures you sent me look great.
Those who bind themselves a joy, does the winged life destroy. Those who kiss the joy as it flies, lives in Eternity's sunrise...
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Jaques Strappe
- Rank (9)
- Posts: 1847
- Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2005 6:34 pm
- Location: YYZ
Dockjock
Finding info on the internet? How about my generation where there was no internet to do research? People who made it, moved on when the going got tough. They didn't move to nowhere then quit at the first sign of trouble. Not to put down Ludacris but he is painting a picture based on his own experience and that picture is not entirely accurate for everyone. It wasn't difficult to find out who the shit operators were and you knew that going in. Carl Millard, Jetall, Tempest, Skycharter, Soundair, could anyone expect job security from these guys? Of course not, they were places to get experience and get out to an airline. Even then you knew that Air Ontario habitually laid off their new hires after a year but Air Nova only ever laid off one pilot and that was for 2 weeks. These are just examples and yes the landscape has changed but not that drastically.
The more I see new pilots moving into the industry, the more complaining I here about the industry. Show some initiative, work hard, don't buy yourself a job and if you are not willing to commit 10 years then maybe you should be doing something else........and that is fine too.
Finding info on the internet? How about my generation where there was no internet to do research? People who made it, moved on when the going got tough. They didn't move to nowhere then quit at the first sign of trouble. Not to put down Ludacris but he is painting a picture based on his own experience and that picture is not entirely accurate for everyone. It wasn't difficult to find out who the shit operators were and you knew that going in. Carl Millard, Jetall, Tempest, Skycharter, Soundair, could anyone expect job security from these guys? Of course not, they were places to get experience and get out to an airline. Even then you knew that Air Ontario habitually laid off their new hires after a year but Air Nova only ever laid off one pilot and that was for 2 weeks. These are just examples and yes the landscape has changed but not that drastically.
The more I see new pilots moving into the industry, the more complaining I here about the industry. Show some initiative, work hard, don't buy yourself a job and if you are not willing to commit 10 years then maybe you should be doing something else........and that is fine too.
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justplanecrazy
- Rank 8
- Posts: 815
- Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 1:57 pm
I have to jump in and say something here. First off Ludacris, great post and a real honest well written story describing my feelings exactly a year ago. I had had enough. I started my flight training at the same time as you and my career was going nowhere fast. I gave up and joined ATC at the advice of some friends who had already gone that path.
Now I sit in my glass prison wondering what it would be like if I hadn't abandoned my dreams. To just be airborne floating through the clouds that are raining on my runway and piercing into that everclear FL350. How great it would be to be in that plane that yelled yeehaw over the frequency as he tried to coax his aircraft into a 45 degree bank to final. How amazing that sunset must look from another 5,000 feet in the air. How wild it would be to greet that hotty stepping on to my Regional Jet and say good evening miss as she blushes to the captain. How much more fullfilling my job would be when I could leave whatever was bothering me that week on the runway as I pull back on the stick and feel the G's kicking in. How exciting it would be to be able to have a story from work that would captivate more people than your supervisor and your dog.
Sure I have security, the opportunity to make big bucks and have long holidays in the carribean but everyday I climb the stairs to that tower I wonder what it would be like to turn around and walk out onto that apron to that Falcon going to Miami. Right now I'm ready to give it all up and spend some more time in the trenches to try and live that dream.
There are two sides to this story. I know that many other jobs provide the funding and security to live a comfortable life but the job itself provides a pressure that ruins your life. I had an AC captain come up to me while I was filling out my log book on the ferry. I was doing some float training and had no idea where my career was going. I told him a story very similar to Ludacris's and he came back with a very different story. He told me how he was getting a break from the wife and kids so he came out to the island to take some scuba lessons. He was making 6 figures, working 60hrs a month which equalled 4-7 days away from home. He may have had to work a few b-days or holidays but other than that he was at home 24/7. He told me how many pilots had full-time careers as lawyers or even police officers outside of flight work. He said that it was the best "part-time" job in the world. I've heard this story from several pilots and although this story seems to be dissapearing with time it is still out there. If you have the ambition and ability, this is available to you. Ever wonder what it would be like to grab a mocha in Paris on your coffee break? I know I still do.
Ludacris just wondering why are you teaching overseas instead of engineering?
Now I sit in my glass prison wondering what it would be like if I hadn't abandoned my dreams. To just be airborne floating through the clouds that are raining on my runway and piercing into that everclear FL350. How great it would be to be in that plane that yelled yeehaw over the frequency as he tried to coax his aircraft into a 45 degree bank to final. How amazing that sunset must look from another 5,000 feet in the air. How wild it would be to greet that hotty stepping on to my Regional Jet and say good evening miss as she blushes to the captain. How much more fullfilling my job would be when I could leave whatever was bothering me that week on the runway as I pull back on the stick and feel the G's kicking in. How exciting it would be to be able to have a story from work that would captivate more people than your supervisor and your dog.
Sure I have security, the opportunity to make big bucks and have long holidays in the carribean but everyday I climb the stairs to that tower I wonder what it would be like to turn around and walk out onto that apron to that Falcon going to Miami. Right now I'm ready to give it all up and spend some more time in the trenches to try and live that dream.
There are two sides to this story. I know that many other jobs provide the funding and security to live a comfortable life but the job itself provides a pressure that ruins your life. I had an AC captain come up to me while I was filling out my log book on the ferry. I was doing some float training and had no idea where my career was going. I told him a story very similar to Ludacris's and he came back with a very different story. He told me how he was getting a break from the wife and kids so he came out to the island to take some scuba lessons. He was making 6 figures, working 60hrs a month which equalled 4-7 days away from home. He may have had to work a few b-days or holidays but other than that he was at home 24/7. He told me how many pilots had full-time careers as lawyers or even police officers outside of flight work. He said that it was the best "part-time" job in the world. I've heard this story from several pilots and although this story seems to be dissapearing with time it is still out there. If you have the ambition and ability, this is available to you. Ever wonder what it would be like to grab a mocha in Paris on your coffee break? I know I still do.
Ludacris just wondering why are you teaching overseas instead of engineering?
We have no effective screening methods to make sure pilots are sane.
— Dr. Herbert Haynes, Federal Aviation Authority.
— Dr. Herbert Haynes, Federal Aviation Authority.
I want to reply to justplanecrazy's post:
I used to think exactly the same way but my original post lays out why I don't dream of that anymore. About the AC captain that came to talk to you. I talked with a few of them when I was researching this career back in the late 90's. That's the dream we're all chasing, myself included. How many decades ago did he get into aviation? I truely believe those jobs no longer exist for pilots starting now in the post-Sept 11th, low-cost era. One day sitting around bored at the crew-res we were talking about how many pilots actually get to fly jets in their careers. We came up with 40% of all pilots who finish their commercial license and actively seek work will ever fly a jet. Somebody talked about a fact finding mission - there's one for you. Major airline captains (especially in the states) have seen their workload increase, their pay decrease and sometimes even their pensions wipped out in just the past few years. Althought the industry is in the first upswing since Sept. 11th, I believe a new benchmark has been set by the flying public and the job we all dream of will soon no longer exist.
Although Jaques Strappe points out that my post does not apply to everybody, and of course it doesn't, I believe it will apply to a larger and larger percentage of new pilots in the years to follow as the legacy carriers cut costs continuously to compete with the low cost carriers. Another one for the fact finding mission - what percentage of major airlines around the world that are not low-cost have posted a profit for the past 2 years? (Airlines that recieve subsidies of any kind from their home country also don't count. ie. Emirates).
The industry is so regulated nowadays that the public knows they will have a safe flight no matter what airline they fly on. All people look for now is price. "How wild it would be to greet that hotty stepping on to my Regional Jet and say good evening miss as she blushes to the captain" - Nowadays that same hotty is pissed at why you didn't get her there faster. Ultra-long haul flights are just starting and will increase. Want even more time away from home?
There will always be jobs flying floats, flying up north, and flying regionally in smaller planes that allow someone to be at home almost everynight and hopefully allow someone to eat and support a family, but for those of us who aspire to be an airline pilot, don't want to live up north, don't want to work for another Skyward, the industry has changed dramatically and will continue to change. If it's still worth it for you than I wish you luck in living the dream.
Why did I choose not to return to engineering at this time? Good question. After enduring Thompson and sacrificing everything for career the past few years I've decided to take some time and enjoy everything else life has to offer. Most engineering jobs are in the production or manufacturing sectors and the pressure that comes with that is something I would rather not deal with right now. I have an interview at a major international company whenever I want it in the country I'm teaching in and a couple longtime standing job offers in FortMac, but I'm just too happy doing what I'm doing now. As for the future, I know I'll be alright but doing what I don't know. There's always the option of going back to school. After thinking about it the past few months my perfect job would be both aviation and engineering related, but it would definitely have to be immune from the lack of security that comes along with aviation...
I used to think exactly the same way but my original post lays out why I don't dream of that anymore. About the AC captain that came to talk to you. I talked with a few of them when I was researching this career back in the late 90's. That's the dream we're all chasing, myself included. How many decades ago did he get into aviation? I truely believe those jobs no longer exist for pilots starting now in the post-Sept 11th, low-cost era. One day sitting around bored at the crew-res we were talking about how many pilots actually get to fly jets in their careers. We came up with 40% of all pilots who finish their commercial license and actively seek work will ever fly a jet. Somebody talked about a fact finding mission - there's one for you. Major airline captains (especially in the states) have seen their workload increase, their pay decrease and sometimes even their pensions wipped out in just the past few years. Althought the industry is in the first upswing since Sept. 11th, I believe a new benchmark has been set by the flying public and the job we all dream of will soon no longer exist.
Although Jaques Strappe points out that my post does not apply to everybody, and of course it doesn't, I believe it will apply to a larger and larger percentage of new pilots in the years to follow as the legacy carriers cut costs continuously to compete with the low cost carriers. Another one for the fact finding mission - what percentage of major airlines around the world that are not low-cost have posted a profit for the past 2 years? (Airlines that recieve subsidies of any kind from their home country also don't count. ie. Emirates).
The industry is so regulated nowadays that the public knows they will have a safe flight no matter what airline they fly on. All people look for now is price. "How wild it would be to greet that hotty stepping on to my Regional Jet and say good evening miss as she blushes to the captain" - Nowadays that same hotty is pissed at why you didn't get her there faster. Ultra-long haul flights are just starting and will increase. Want even more time away from home?
There will always be jobs flying floats, flying up north, and flying regionally in smaller planes that allow someone to be at home almost everynight and hopefully allow someone to eat and support a family, but for those of us who aspire to be an airline pilot, don't want to live up north, don't want to work for another Skyward, the industry has changed dramatically and will continue to change. If it's still worth it for you than I wish you luck in living the dream.
Why did I choose not to return to engineering at this time? Good question. After enduring Thompson and sacrificing everything for career the past few years I've decided to take some time and enjoy everything else life has to offer. Most engineering jobs are in the production or manufacturing sectors and the pressure that comes with that is something I would rather not deal with right now. I have an interview at a major international company whenever I want it in the country I'm teaching in and a couple longtime standing job offers in FortMac, but I'm just too happy doing what I'm doing now. As for the future, I know I'll be alright but doing what I don't know. There's always the option of going back to school. After thinking about it the past few months my perfect job would be both aviation and engineering related, but it would definitely have to be immune from the lack of security that comes along with aviation...
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scotothedoublet
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- Contact:
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Bob Martin
- Rank 0
- Posts: 12
- Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2005 3:48 pm
- Location: USA
I think people confuse "getting" the job and "getting paid"...
I knew aviation was a very hard enviroment, i personally did not care about getting a job easely, because i would have flown anyway, i just love it!!!!
The fact is though, that all around the world is very hard to find a job but taht doesn't scare me because with hard work and some luck i knew i could find a job and i could put food on my table.
Then i came to Canada (for totally different reasons) and i found a beautiful country, where aviation is cheap for everybody but where beign a pilot or a bum on the street is the same thing. A bus driver makes more money than a pilot!!!! and there is nothing i can do about it!!! i can work 26 hours a day but it would be impossible for me to feed myself at the end of the month
Pilot are misled because they are not paid for the job!!!! Flying is a "compensation", working in a ramp around airplanes is a compensation, that is was is hurting the industry and the pilots!!!!!!
I knew aviation was a very hard enviroment, i personally did not care about getting a job easely, because i would have flown anyway, i just love it!!!!
The fact is though, that all around the world is very hard to find a job but taht doesn't scare me because with hard work and some luck i knew i could find a job and i could put food on my table.
Then i came to Canada (for totally different reasons) and i found a beautiful country, where aviation is cheap for everybody but where beign a pilot or a bum on the street is the same thing. A bus driver makes more money than a pilot!!!! and there is nothing i can do about it!!! i can work 26 hours a day but it would be impossible for me to feed myself at the end of the month
Pilot are misled because they are not paid for the job!!!! Flying is a "compensation", working in a ramp around airplanes is a compensation, that is was is hurting the industry and the pilots!!!!!!
It's better to break ground and head into the wind than to break wind and head into the ground
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JohnnyHotRocks
- Rank (9)
- Posts: 1084
- Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 7:18 am
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justplanecrazy
- Rank 8
- Posts: 815
- Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 1:57 pm
Hey JBI I think you're right, why don't you quit. I mean if you're still working shit jobs like that after giving it your all for 8 or more years than obviously you're not making it. What I'm saying is that the dream jobs are still there. I've never met an AC or WJA pilot who regrets becoming a pilot. Sure there's a lot of crap that you have to put up with in this industry and there's dissapointment for the majority of people but there is also great successes for some
We have no effective screening methods to make sure pilots are sane.
— Dr. Herbert Haynes, Federal Aviation Authority.
— Dr. Herbert Haynes, Federal Aviation Authority.
planecrazy,
Didn't mean any harm, just wanted to let you know that there are different ways to look at any situation.
IMHO, the only way to realy enjoy aviation in Canada is to focus on the job you have now and enjoy it. The things that I mentioned were funny, but were true to some extent. Ya there were days where I hated flying up north, but I've also been lucky to have some amazing experiences. And even the so called 'bad' experiences were enjoyable. I've had great stories to tell since being back in civilization.
However, if you're only in it for the dream of flying a fast jet, you're in it for the wrong reasons.
As a matter of fact I did quit (take a break from) flying. This was mostly due to health reasons that were beyond my control. I'm still working part time in aviation and some days I really miss being a pilot. But honestly, right now I'm much happier not flying. I'm currently in school having a blast, but also working hard and exploring other career options. I may get back into flying, and I plan to keep it up as a hobby, but I am no longer willing to give up a life for a job, for the hope that one day I'll be able to fly in the majors. I was envious of the guys who were able to really enjoy being up north. Hunting and fishing are just not for me.
The thing to remember is that FLYING IS A JOB, it may be a cool one, but it is a job nonetheless. While I was still working the ramp I had numerous people tell me that, but I didn't believe them. But sure enough, 6 months after I had been flying, it really was just job. I told the original poster, Ludacris the same thing and he didn't believe me, but sure enough, 6 months later he felt the same way.
I'm not sure what it is about flying that has people look at the job with rose tinted glasses. Maybe it's that it used to be great, but the times they are a changing. Being a pilot is not what it used to be.
Didn't mean any harm, just wanted to let you know that there are different ways to look at any situation.
IMHO, the only way to realy enjoy aviation in Canada is to focus on the job you have now and enjoy it. The things that I mentioned were funny, but were true to some extent. Ya there were days where I hated flying up north, but I've also been lucky to have some amazing experiences. And even the so called 'bad' experiences were enjoyable. I've had great stories to tell since being back in civilization.
However, if you're only in it for the dream of flying a fast jet, you're in it for the wrong reasons.
As a matter of fact I did quit (take a break from) flying. This was mostly due to health reasons that were beyond my control. I'm still working part time in aviation and some days I really miss being a pilot. But honestly, right now I'm much happier not flying. I'm currently in school having a blast, but also working hard and exploring other career options. I may get back into flying, and I plan to keep it up as a hobby, but I am no longer willing to give up a life for a job, for the hope that one day I'll be able to fly in the majors. I was envious of the guys who were able to really enjoy being up north. Hunting and fishing are just not for me.
The thing to remember is that FLYING IS A JOB, it may be a cool one, but it is a job nonetheless. While I was still working the ramp I had numerous people tell me that, but I didn't believe them. But sure enough, 6 months after I had been flying, it really was just job. I told the original poster, Ludacris the same thing and he didn't believe me, but sure enough, 6 months later he felt the same way.
I'm not sure what it is about flying that has people look at the job with rose tinted glasses. Maybe it's that it used to be great, but the times they are a changing. Being a pilot is not what it used to be.
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justplanecrazy
- Rank 8
- Posts: 815
- Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 1:57 pm
Italy requires 3 experienced CL-215 Waterbomber crews immediately for a 4 month contract.
Salaries are 11,000 euros (16,000 cdn) per month for Captains and 8,000 Euros per month for First Officers plus Overtime. All expenses are paid and 8 days off per month.
Call Tony at 807 737-0509 for more info. Qualified candidates only please!!!
Wow it would suck to have to go to Italy for 4 months and make $64,000 cruising around in one of the wildest birds in the sky.... point in case . But I'm sure these guys didn't spend any time working crap jobs, their Parents must have paid for their PPC.
Sure you may not enjoy what you're doing now but if you stick it out and have the ability, with a little luck, great things can come your way. I've seen so many of my friends get sidetracked or give up on aviation just like this post shows, myself included. But then I've had a few of them stick it out and make it big, now I'm wishing I had also. If you don't feel the sacrafice is worth it, then stop griping and go do something else. If you didn't realise it would be this way when you went for your training... well I'm sorry. I wish that there was a way to inform every student of what they're getting themeselves into. I can totally relate to the position presented in this post and I'm glad Ludacris wrote it. People need to know what the majority of the industry is like but there also needs to be a realization that there are still amazing opportunities out there.
I'd like to have Ludacris write again in 3 years when he's back in the office staring at the planes out his window and not on some temperary holiday/job overseas. You can choose boredom/security/steady income or excitement/change/possibility of great income. Most people that succeed in aviation do so because they can't stand the thought of the first option.
We have no effective screening methods to make sure pilots are sane.
— Dr. Herbert Haynes, Federal Aviation Authority.
— Dr. Herbert Haynes, Federal Aviation Authority.
planecrazy,
Not to sound rude, but um, did you read my post? You said that I should stop griping and do something else, when in fact, I am doing something else. And I'm happy I am.
I'm not disagreeing with you that there are good opportunities out there. I'm related to a AC 767 senior training captain. He's got an awesome schedule, makes great cash and sees the world. But as you've stated, the majority of aviation jobs are not like that. You seem to contradict yourself in your posts as you first say "sorry that the jobs suck and that you're not flying a jet" but then go on to say that there still are great opportunities out there and therefore you should keep working at the crappy jobs in the hope that maybe one day you'll get these opportunities, even though the majority of aviation jobs suck.
I tend to think that you have to approach it from a different point of view. Sure there is the opportunity to get a sweet gig, but if you go into aviation only with the goal of getting said gig, you're going to be sorely disappointed. If however, you get into aviation with open eyes, enjoying your current job (as sh*tty as it may be) and not constantly loooking for that 'dream' job, you're going to be much happier.
I really do mean this in total respect (it's hard to judge tone of voice over the internet) but, you're telling me to do something different if I'm not happy, and I did. So why don't you? Perimeter is expanding like crazy now that Skyward has gone under. To get my job in Thompson I moved up, worked at a grocery store for a few months, then the ramp for 15 and then started flying. That's the road to do it and nothing is stopping you. If you honestly feel you'd be happier doing that then working ATC, go for it! Honestly. Just do it with open eyes.
Cheers
Not to sound rude, but um, did you read my post? You said that I should stop griping and do something else, when in fact, I am doing something else. And I'm happy I am.
I'm not disagreeing with you that there are good opportunities out there. I'm related to a AC 767 senior training captain. He's got an awesome schedule, makes great cash and sees the world. But as you've stated, the majority of aviation jobs are not like that. You seem to contradict yourself in your posts as you first say "sorry that the jobs suck and that you're not flying a jet" but then go on to say that there still are great opportunities out there and therefore you should keep working at the crappy jobs in the hope that maybe one day you'll get these opportunities, even though the majority of aviation jobs suck.
I tend to think that you have to approach it from a different point of view. Sure there is the opportunity to get a sweet gig, but if you go into aviation only with the goal of getting said gig, you're going to be sorely disappointed. If however, you get into aviation with open eyes, enjoying your current job (as sh*tty as it may be) and not constantly loooking for that 'dream' job, you're going to be much happier.
I really do mean this in total respect (it's hard to judge tone of voice over the internet) but, you're telling me to do something different if I'm not happy, and I did. So why don't you? Perimeter is expanding like crazy now that Skyward has gone under. To get my job in Thompson I moved up, worked at a grocery store for a few months, then the ramp for 15 and then started flying. That's the road to do it and nothing is stopping you. If you honestly feel you'd be happier doing that then working ATC, go for it! Honestly. Just do it with open eyes.
Cheers
planecrazy,
Don't take this the wrong way, but I want to ask you what your age is and how much experience in life you've had? Have you done much travelling before? Do you have a wife and kids? The reason I'm asking is because your attitude is exactly the way I used to think. I used to choose "excitement/change/possibility" but my original post details how my view of what's important in life has changed over time. Now I would chose "boredom/security/steady" anyday over flying for a living. One thing you failed to mention is whoever takes that 4 month contract will be away from his wife and kids for that 4 months. And when the contract is up he has no job and has to jump back into the job search. How often is anyone willing to pack up and move a family half way around the world? .82Mach posted on this site a long time ago how cool his job was because he was checking out the sunset from FL410 over New York. While at the same time his wife and kids would be eating dinner alone for the thousandth time.
You mentioned it would be interesting for me to write again in 3 years. I'll do that since I'm sure I'll still be reading this site everyday like I've done for the past 5 years. I'm sure I'll still enjoy flying and hopefully I'll have a job that will allow me to do that as a hobby. If not, there's always flightsim which is filling the gap very well at the moment.
It would be interesting for you to post again in 3 years too because I have a feeling you're still under 20 and as you get older your priorities in life will change as well...Good luck to you though whatever you choose.
Don't take this the wrong way, but I want to ask you what your age is and how much experience in life you've had? Have you done much travelling before? Do you have a wife and kids? The reason I'm asking is because your attitude is exactly the way I used to think. I used to choose "excitement/change/possibility" but my original post details how my view of what's important in life has changed over time. Now I would chose "boredom/security/steady" anyday over flying for a living. One thing you failed to mention is whoever takes that 4 month contract will be away from his wife and kids for that 4 months. And when the contract is up he has no job and has to jump back into the job search. How often is anyone willing to pack up and move a family half way around the world? .82Mach posted on this site a long time ago how cool his job was because he was checking out the sunset from FL410 over New York. While at the same time his wife and kids would be eating dinner alone for the thousandth time.
You mentioned it would be interesting for me to write again in 3 years. I'll do that since I'm sure I'll still be reading this site everyday like I've done for the past 5 years. I'm sure I'll still enjoy flying and hopefully I'll have a job that will allow me to do that as a hobby. If not, there's always flightsim which is filling the gap very well at the moment.
It would be interesting for you to post again in 3 years too because I have a feeling you're still under 20 and as you get older your priorities in life will change as well...Good luck to you though whatever you choose.
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justplanecrazy
- Rank 8
- Posts: 815
- Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 1:57 pm
JPI I wasn't posting that in reference to your comment. I'm just saying in general. There is so much negativity on this forum with everyone commenting on how much aviation and their life sucks. It's easy to adapt that view, I'm pointing out that there is still a light at the end of the tunnel and most likely will be for some time. Aviation tends to take swings and although it hit an all time low after 911 it isn't gone. Companies like Jetsgo come and go as we have seen and although they brought highly skilled pilots to an incredibly degrading workforce low, they are now gone and WJA and ACA are hiring.
I do agree with you that if you can enjoy your job as an underpaid buluga transporter in NWT then this is definately the career move for you regardless of where you end up. At the same time if you are only interested in the majors... give it a shot. Look at it as though its the NHL. Statistics say you're not going to make it but how many hockey players play for nothing to get there. If 8 years later its obvious that you're not getting there than find another job and don't look back. Sure try and enjoy working the lower jobs but if you can understand that they are just stepping stones then lifting those fish crate in the -40 arctic won't seem unbearable. I wonder if Ludacris will ever regret his decision though. I mean it sounded like he was moving up the ladder at a decent pace and he may have been able to go somewhere good.
JBI I am making plans on getting back into the field but right now I'm making good wages and am saving as much as possible in order to try and transition back. I may go a different route than where I was going before and my savings will allow that. For now I'm trying to be content with where I am.
Ludacris... I'm 25 and ready for a family. I've moved every year for the past 8 and have lived on both shores of Canada and inbetween. I've travelled through 90% of the states and have had more life experiences than most on their death beds. Do I still long for adventure... yes. I have a friend who's 30 and feels the same way. We're both stuck in jobs that we don't have a true passion for and although it pays the bills and lets me go home at night there are 40 hours a week that I'm not excited about. I bring that unsatisfaction into my life and it not only affects the 40hrs that I'm at work but the other hours that I'm not. Truth is you can work your family into a flying career. Why not take the family to Italy for the summer. After four months go home and spend the next 8 with your family everyday all day. You just made an average salary and sure its not the regular life of an office job but you just spent more time with your family than most ever will.
I don't mean any disrespect to anyone I just feel that some people lose their focus after a while and there is a time when you have to say enough and move on but if you go through the rest of your life with out giving it a real shot you'll always wonder what if?
I do agree with you that if you can enjoy your job as an underpaid buluga transporter in NWT then this is definately the career move for you regardless of where you end up. At the same time if you are only interested in the majors... give it a shot. Look at it as though its the NHL. Statistics say you're not going to make it but how many hockey players play for nothing to get there. If 8 years later its obvious that you're not getting there than find another job and don't look back. Sure try and enjoy working the lower jobs but if you can understand that they are just stepping stones then lifting those fish crate in the -40 arctic won't seem unbearable. I wonder if Ludacris will ever regret his decision though. I mean it sounded like he was moving up the ladder at a decent pace and he may have been able to go somewhere good.
JBI I am making plans on getting back into the field but right now I'm making good wages and am saving as much as possible in order to try and transition back. I may go a different route than where I was going before and my savings will allow that. For now I'm trying to be content with where I am.
Ludacris... I'm 25 and ready for a family. I've moved every year for the past 8 and have lived on both shores of Canada and inbetween. I've travelled through 90% of the states and have had more life experiences than most on their death beds. Do I still long for adventure... yes. I have a friend who's 30 and feels the same way. We're both stuck in jobs that we don't have a true passion for and although it pays the bills and lets me go home at night there are 40 hours a week that I'm not excited about. I bring that unsatisfaction into my life and it not only affects the 40hrs that I'm at work but the other hours that I'm not. Truth is you can work your family into a flying career. Why not take the family to Italy for the summer. After four months go home and spend the next 8 with your family everyday all day. You just made an average salary and sure its not the regular life of an office job but you just spent more time with your family than most ever will.
I don't mean any disrespect to anyone I just feel that some people lose their focus after a while and there is a time when you have to say enough and move on but if you go through the rest of your life with out giving it a real shot you'll always wonder what if?
We have no effective screening methods to make sure pilots are sane.
— Dr. Herbert Haynes, Federal Aviation Authority.
— Dr. Herbert Haynes, Federal Aviation Authority.
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Axial Flow
- Rank 7
- Posts: 507
- Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 6:00 pm
Why all of a sudden LudaCW did you seem to have this great paradigm shift ? Did ya fall in love while tasting Thai and you've realigned your priorities ?Don't take this the wrong way, but I want to ask you what your age is and how much experience in life you've had? Have you done much travelling before?
Perhaps a partial solution would be to have a place where people could post details about the companies they've worked for. I know that this could end up violating some libel laws or whatever but if it was possible...
Real info on what a company is like to work for day in day out would be invaluable to making decisions as to where to apply or where to work. This might help stem the flow of good people to crappy companies and might help those crappy companies to fix some of the bush-league things that they do.
For example:
Pay-
Condition of the Planes-
Schedule-
Morale-
Hours Flown-
Opportunities for Promotion-
Dirty Little Secrets etc.
I don't know many pilots, happy or not, who knew more than 1 or maybe 2 of those criteria before signing on for a job. Some lucked out, some didn't. Those that lucked out are not usually the ones contemplating leaving aviation.
There are a lot of crappy companies out there and some good ones; I don't think the crappy ones deserve the flow of good people's resumes when with some basic facts we could stem the flow.
Real info on what a company is like to work for day in day out would be invaluable to making decisions as to where to apply or where to work. This might help stem the flow of good people to crappy companies and might help those crappy companies to fix some of the bush-league things that they do.
For example:
Pay-
Condition of the Planes-
Schedule-
Morale-
Hours Flown-
Opportunities for Promotion-
Dirty Little Secrets etc.
I don't know many pilots, happy or not, who knew more than 1 or maybe 2 of those criteria before signing on for a job. Some lucked out, some didn't. Those that lucked out are not usually the ones contemplating leaving aviation.
There are a lot of crappy companies out there and some good ones; I don't think the crappy ones deserve the flow of good people's resumes when with some basic facts we could stem the flow.
Good things do happen in the personal lives of pilots.
I had that shitty job slugging it out in the cold northern isolation. I had to get out there with the 40 year old herman/nelson and coax it into operation an hour before the flight only to find out that the flight was cancelled. I had drunks banging on my door begging me to take em to the liquor store. I had the boss demanding I take a broken airplane flying while TC was standing right there doing an audit. I've had to miss the births of 2 neices and 2 nephews. I've had to miss a bunch of weddings. A girl I was in love with left me because I wasn't around enough due to my job. And damn that, too, cause I woulda bloody well married the girl. I've seen co-workers more inexperienced than I sail past me in their careers. I had to get the chilling news that my buddy plowed an airplane into a hill killing himself and everyone on board. I've had to deal with a boss that was cracking the whip on my ass to fly an airplane hugely overweight. I've been massively underpaid because the boss is armed with the knowledge that he could throw a dart into Vancouver and hit a pilot who'd fly for less.
Good things happen to pilots.
I've got to see the sun set 5 times in one flight because I could keep climbing the plane every time the sun sank below the horizon. I've even had the 2 hour sunset, where you just keep chasing it into the horizon. I've also been up north to see the sunset that just ever-so-gradually turned into a sunrise. I've got to skim the waves that were breaking on a deserted Columbian beach. I've tried keeping up to the turns in the Great Bear River. I've been the pilot of probably the very first airplane that children in rural West Africa have ever seen up close. I still enjoy the greaser landings. I'm never truly bored in the airplane, even half way through a 5 hour night flight, because I'm doing what I've always wanted to do. The list of the cool stuff can keep going on, but I haven't made my point yet.
Today is my 27th birthday. I've been with the same company for 4 years now and I love it. I fly a Learjet... an airplane I've wanted to fly since I was in Grade 9. One more dream fulfilled. I get paid well by most standards. I own a truck and shiny motorbike... all paid for because of aviation. I've just signed the dotted line on a brand new condo on the Red Mile of Calgary. Geez, I'll be able to damn near throw a rock onto my favorite places to drink beer. I've got money saved up because I get paid well enough to save it. I think I'm due for a raise, too
I've got to travel during my cumulative 5 months off a year. Backpacked through Europe, and hung out on beaches in Mexico. I snowboard, visit family, eat good food, go to concerts... pretty much anything I feel like doing. Sometimes when I'm working, I lie on beaches as well, confusing me as to whether or not this time at work should be considered vacation. I believe I'll one day fly for Air Canada, WestJet, or perhaps one of this worlds other major airlines. And if I don't, I'll will have decided that a life flying a Falcon for rich people will be a satisfying one. This all happened because I worked hard along the way, got a little lucky, turned down the jobs I needed to turn down, and held my focus. But primarily, it happened just because I wanted to fly planes for a living. I can hardly claim to have worked a day since I left construction. Geez, I haven't a clue what I'd do with myself if I didn't have aviation!!!
You can't always control which direction your career will take you. But you can keep working hard, and you'll earn your breaks. Sometimes you need to make your own breaks. And if you don't truly love it, the decision to leave will be made easy at some point or another. I don't point out my good fortune in aviation to wave it infront of all the guys who are getting pissed on. Rather, I'm trying to show people that there are good paths to take in this industry, and not all employers are bad ones. I hope this comes as encouragement to some who are questioning the whole thing.
Shankdown
I had that shitty job slugging it out in the cold northern isolation. I had to get out there with the 40 year old herman/nelson and coax it into operation an hour before the flight only to find out that the flight was cancelled. I had drunks banging on my door begging me to take em to the liquor store. I had the boss demanding I take a broken airplane flying while TC was standing right there doing an audit. I've had to miss the births of 2 neices and 2 nephews. I've had to miss a bunch of weddings. A girl I was in love with left me because I wasn't around enough due to my job. And damn that, too, cause I woulda bloody well married the girl. I've seen co-workers more inexperienced than I sail past me in their careers. I had to get the chilling news that my buddy plowed an airplane into a hill killing himself and everyone on board. I've had to deal with a boss that was cracking the whip on my ass to fly an airplane hugely overweight. I've been massively underpaid because the boss is armed with the knowledge that he could throw a dart into Vancouver and hit a pilot who'd fly for less.
Good things happen to pilots.
I've got to see the sun set 5 times in one flight because I could keep climbing the plane every time the sun sank below the horizon. I've even had the 2 hour sunset, where you just keep chasing it into the horizon. I've also been up north to see the sunset that just ever-so-gradually turned into a sunrise. I've got to skim the waves that were breaking on a deserted Columbian beach. I've tried keeping up to the turns in the Great Bear River. I've been the pilot of probably the very first airplane that children in rural West Africa have ever seen up close. I still enjoy the greaser landings. I'm never truly bored in the airplane, even half way through a 5 hour night flight, because I'm doing what I've always wanted to do. The list of the cool stuff can keep going on, but I haven't made my point yet.
Today is my 27th birthday. I've been with the same company for 4 years now and I love it. I fly a Learjet... an airplane I've wanted to fly since I was in Grade 9. One more dream fulfilled. I get paid well by most standards. I own a truck and shiny motorbike... all paid for because of aviation. I've just signed the dotted line on a brand new condo on the Red Mile of Calgary. Geez, I'll be able to damn near throw a rock onto my favorite places to drink beer. I've got money saved up because I get paid well enough to save it. I think I'm due for a raise, too
I've got to travel during my cumulative 5 months off a year. Backpacked through Europe, and hung out on beaches in Mexico. I snowboard, visit family, eat good food, go to concerts... pretty much anything I feel like doing. Sometimes when I'm working, I lie on beaches as well, confusing me as to whether or not this time at work should be considered vacation. I believe I'll one day fly for Air Canada, WestJet, or perhaps one of this worlds other major airlines. And if I don't, I'll will have decided that a life flying a Falcon for rich people will be a satisfying one. This all happened because I worked hard along the way, got a little lucky, turned down the jobs I needed to turn down, and held my focus. But primarily, it happened just because I wanted to fly planes for a living. I can hardly claim to have worked a day since I left construction. Geez, I haven't a clue what I'd do with myself if I didn't have aviation!!!You can't always control which direction your career will take you. But you can keep working hard, and you'll earn your breaks. Sometimes you need to make your own breaks. And if you don't truly love it, the decision to leave will be made easy at some point or another. I don't point out my good fortune in aviation to wave it infront of all the guys who are getting pissed on. Rather, I'm trying to show people that there are good paths to take in this industry, and not all employers are bad ones. I hope this comes as encouragement to some who are questioning the whole thing.
Shankdown
