Passed IFR renewal....on the Redbird.

[Rookie50]

....and can highly recommend it for a renewal. Did at cyhm, they do the recurrency and ride in the same day. Pretty sophitisticated simulator for ga. Good folks at GHA. It doesn't hurt that I almost 4.0'ed the ride, so I am happy.

[seasonaldriver]

I've done the same thing on the Redbird at Harv's Air Service at YAV. Great way of doing it in winter. None of those winter preflight inspections! And a LOT less expensive than in an airplane.

[Colonel Sanders]

Congratulations! Once you figure out the autopilot
and the GPS, you're rolling!

[Rookie50]

Congratulations! Once you figure out the autopilot
and the GPS, you're rolling!

FYI, I hand flew the entire ride, start to finish, using the Adf and vor receivers as primary navigation, enroute and Approaches. Gps was on, but not primary for me. Did ILS and Loc approaches. Could have used autopilot -- felt more comfortable hand flying the ride. More engaged.

IFR I don't rely, on ONLY autopilots or gps --- yes I do use them --- but things fail --- and vfr, I can be good --- and do train occaisonally still --- with a compass, map and watch --- same reason, things fail.


--- edited ----

[Colonel Sanders]

I hand flew the entire ride

Good lord, man - why?! If the equipment is in
the panel, you are expected to understand how
to use it. And until the examiner fails it, I don't
see any reason why you would NOT use it!

I suppose you could pull one of the throttles
back to idle after takeoff, too. Fly the entire
ride on one engine. You could - you do have
two, after all.

using the Adf and vor ... as primary

You are aware that something like 99% of the
IFR flight plans in southern ontario are /G?

some of us actually work to be safe at our flying

Holy attitude, Batman! I've been flying since
before you were born, and haven't even dented
an airplane yet.

vfr, I am good with a compass, map and watch

Boy, I'm impressed. In January I flew a dead
friend's biplane (no gyros) back from Cozumel
direct across the Gulf of Mexico to Key West.

GPS went offline, as a matter of fact. I couldn't
even see forward over the ferry tank in the front
seat. This is a picture my cellphone took, when
I held it over my head:



I presume with your swagger that you have
done a lot of single-engine long-distance
over-water flying. How many times have
you flown the North Atlantic? The Pacific?

[Rookie50]

Alright, CS, you can win this one.

Pointing out, not all of us ga guys depend on the magenta line not to get lost.

That's it.

[Colonel Sanders]

win this one

Win what?! I don't understand. If you fly a twin
with weather radar, do you not turn it on to prove
what a safe pilot you are?!

[Chuck Ellsworth]

During the last ten years of my career I can count on one hand the number of times we used the ADF and it was seldom we used the VOR.

Using technology as ancient as the ADF is like using a horse and buggy instead of your car.

In other words why not make things as simple as you can?

[Colonel Sanders]

Am I on crack, .? What are they teaching kids these days?!

"Don't use the equipment in the airplane"

WTF?!

[2550]

I ve heard in some countries use of autofeather is considered unmanly. ...Id say we re not doing too bad. I handfly some times, helps to remind me how to do it. I prob wouldnt risk it in a ride tho.

[Chuck Ellsworth]

I have no idea Colonel, it is so bizzare I just can not imagine what is driving such stupidity.

We can not blame the new pilots because this nonsense has been bred into them.

But it is just beyond comprehension why anyone would want to use aids like the ADF that are so fraught with inacuracies when there are modern aids to navigation in almost every airplane out there.

Another weird unorthodox practice a lot of them take such pride in is wearing a hood during IFR practice and IFR rides...just boggles the mind.

[Colonel Sanders]

I handfly some times

Of course. Heck, I'm Mr Stick & Rudder.

But if it's in the panel, and it works, I'm
going to use it to help me until it doesn't
work.

[kevinsky18]

Although the Red Bird has been out for several years now they have yet to address the fact the GPS does not simulate properly. This is a long standing and known issue. The Red Bird Garmin 430/530 has so many glitches that it’s best to not use it at all and and it’s not approved for the purposes of a ride.

What the flight schools do is convince these kids that they should learn how to use the ADF etc so that they will be better / safer pilots. It’s all a con to distract them from the fact that the Red Bird GPS does not work.

I love the Red Bird but they really, really need to address the GPS issue and stop conning kids. ADF is dead. Valuable training time is wasted on the ADF when it should be focused on the primary nav aids that everyone uses in the field.

[Chuck Ellsworth]

ADF is dead.

I am lying here in bed trying to remember when the ADF became obsolete, for sure it was in 1975/76 because we used GNS in the Arctic in the Twin Otter for the simple reason it was so accurate.

Anyone here remember DECCA?

In the days before Loran?

[Rookie50]

Although the Red Bird has been out for several years now they have yet to address the fact the GPS does not simulate properly. This is a long standing and known issue. The Red Bird Garmin 430/530 has so many glitches that it’s best to not use it at all and and it’s not approved for the purposes of a ride.

What the flight schools do is convince these kids that they should learn how to use the ADF etc so that they will be better / safer pilots. It’s all a con to distract them from the fact that the Red Bird GPS does not work.

I love the Red Bird but they really, really need to address the GPS issue and stop conning kids. ADF is dead. Valuable training time is wasted on the ADF when it should be focused on the primary nav aids that everyone uses in the field.

I agree, with caveats, and I have received a fair of quality g430w training too. I agree the focus is not gps weighted enough. You are correct on the Redbird, one reason it was not primary, I could not do an RNav on my ride. However, it depends where one is -- there are still NDB approaches out there, without gnss overlay. It is good, I think to know all of the methodology, until gps completely
replaces NDB's.

[Chuck Ellsworth]

Rookie50, you realize we are not attacking you, it is the system that is failing you.

We live and fly in the twenty first century....not the twentieth century and the system is failing you big time by hoodwinking you into believing using horse and buggy technology is good for your survival.

Lets look at this from a practical viewpoint......you are conducting an approach in IMC on an instrument flight plan and the approach is an NDB aproach.

You have a hand held GPS running and the NDB is a waypoint in it......the ADF leads you to believe you are on track but the GPS is showing you that you are off track and may miss the airport.

Which one is the most believable?

There was a time when the ADF was all we had backed up with the Astro Compass......but those days are long gone.

[Rookie50]

Congratulations! Once you figure out the autopilot
and the GPS, you're rolling!

FYI, I hand flew the entire ride, start to finish, using the Adf and vor receivers as primary navigation, enroute and Approaches. Gps was on, but not primary for me. Did ILS and Loc approaches. Could have used autopilot -- felt more comfortable hand flying the ride. More engaged.

IFR I don't rely, on ONLY autopilots or gps --- yes I do use them --- but things fail --- and vfr, I can be good --- and do train occaisonally still --- with a compass, map and watch --- same reason, things fail.


--- edited ----

For clarity. I only use Ap in cruise, so hand flew the ride. comfortable doing so. Point is --- well I think anyone single pilot IFR...should be or work on same... AP's fail....

Gps. As quoted above, they can't always be used as primary, in a Redbird ride. Not in mine-- although I had the screen on, and did help a little, confirm align with final approach course. So hence, comfort with
each methodology, IFR or VFR, I think is a good thing. I agree, you use the best technology you can -- I do, practically --- but train old school as well, so one knows how, if needed.

After all, how many comments are there -- commenting on plastic airplanes, plastic pilots, 4 feet of glass. I suppose, I do think a touch old school, ( can't afford the glass, anyway) and try to go beyond, flying as a magenta line following video game.

[Taco Joe]

For clarity. I only use Ap in cruise, so hand flew the ride. comfortable doing so. Point is --- well I think anyone single pilot IFR...should be or work on same... AP's fail....

Yeah, auto-pilots fail...but we tend to use them to help reduce workload when flying so we don't lose situational awareness. Which is probably why functioning auto-pilots are required for commercial ops when operating single-pilot. And using the auto-pilot regularily for arrivals/approaches only makes you more comfortable with the system which means when you get into busy airspace or have an abnormal situation, staying ahead of the plane is easier.

[Lurch]

Rookie you're lucky your examiner didn't know the Flight Test Guide so well or they could have failed you?

The candidate is expected to utilize an installed autopilot and/or flight management system (FMS) during the instrument flight test to assist in the management of the aircraft. The examiner is expected to test the candidate’s knowledge of the systems that are installed and operative during the oral and flight portions of the test. The candidate will be required to demonstrate the use of the autopilot and/or FMS during one of the non-precision approaches. The candidate is expected to demonstrate satisfactory automation management skills. Although autopilots may be used during the flight test, at least one of the approaches will be hand-flown during the flight test for the initial qualification.

Lurch

[Colonel Sanders]

Exactly!

Not sure anyone here remembers Richard Collins (or
his father - doubt it) but he used to write a featured
column for FLYING magazine. He owned a P210,
and was "Mr IFR". He was the stud when it
came to single pilot IFR. For decades and decades.
He would lecture the rest of us from his Olympian
heights about weather, the "system", etc.

Then one day, I'm reading one one of his columns,
and he had his autopilot fail in the soup, and he
immediately told ATC he needed an altitude change
out of the cloud

That's what the king of single-pilot IFR flying, thought
about flying without an autopilot. An illuminating lesson.

Single pilot, you are a foolish beyond belief to not
turn the autopilot on, and let it help you. Of course
you need to be able to hand-fly in the soup - even
if Richard Collins couldn't - but in a twin, you're probably
going to use both engines, too, as long as they are
running.

I remember a Richard Colllins-ism:

Mare's tails and mackeral skies
Make tall ships fly small sails

Heck, you can probably still find his IFR
training videos for sale. He was the KING.

[trey kule]

I had to chuckle about the suggestion of shutting down an engine and flying the whole renewal on one engine..
Many years ago we had some pilots who were shutting down an engine on positioning flights "for training purposes"
That is until one day two of them could not get a restart and had to come home on one engine..Always wondered how those two made out with the rest of their career.

The thing about the internet, is some young bucks like to , how shall I put this, embelish their experiences, so I would take things with a grain of salt..As far as I know, no one does renewal rides in the Redbird and flies them all by hand..If they do that should constitute a failing grade...There is a stupidity column in the flight test check list ..right?

BTW.. Richard Collins also put a complete standby attitude indicator system in his plane. It was the first time I ever heard about that in
a small plane. that kind of thinking is maybe why he is alive today

[costermonger]

Most striking column I can ever recall from Richard Collins was when he decided to scrap his P210 rather than sell it.

Anyway, I looked up DECCA. After reading about how it worked and looking at pictures of the DECCA navigators, I'm going to go buy my GPS some flowers or something.

[crazy_aviator]

Im wondering why folks like CS are worshipping folks like collins, understandable, he knows his stuff HOWEVER, running to VMC when the autopilot quits and selling his plane in pieces ( liability concerns, God complex? has too much $$$ ) is NOT one whom i would worship ,,,just a different person with a different take on life and a wisely consertative one too.

[Chuck Ellsworth]

It is still pretty hard to beat the Radio Range for simplicity and economy of equipment.

All you needed was any AM radio with a volume control on it and you could fly the airways and do instrument approaches.....

....and the chest beaters of the day always hit the cone of silence.

Of course I realize that is not as difficult as doing a 100 knot approach in a 172 and being able to slow it down just prior to the runway and select full flaps and land it on the first thousand feet of runway.

[iflyforpie]

We will never know .. It's too bad they don't have any of those AN beacons out there just for fun.