7thirtyseven wrote:Not to burst anyones bubble on their race to the bottom theories, nor their "how low can we go?" moans... Many moons ago I got hired on as an FO at a similar (but without the upside) company on a similar (read lower number) aircraft. Working through the numbers it looks to me like at 70hrs (the min) a month the fresh Encore FO will be my oh so long ago wage plus 3% per yr since then. Conclusion??? Encore isnt mining new depths.... Its the same old sucky pay its always been for new guys at regionals. Errr I mean at any airline.
One thing a new Encore guy will have is an upside and potential I could have only dreamed of.... If you cant figure out what that is Im afraid I cant help you.
Ok what's the upside that you "could only dream of? 15 years min to narrow body jet captain? During that time horrific pay, and much of your future gambled on hoping a particular stock value is somehow insulated from the financial turbulence that exists in the rest of the industry?
Just trying to put this perspective. On of our kids works PARTTIME as a receptionist and takes home 300.00 per pay cheque less than a First Officer would at Encore. What's wrong with this picture? Oh by the way, she has been there for less than a year...
The industry as a whole is going to suffer for years to come by people accepting a wage this rediculous. For a group of people (im talking about all pilots) that are supposed to be able to think ahead of the aircraft and and never get behind it while in control we sure have let the industry slip beyond our reach in terms of wawcon and it seems very few recognize this fact. It would seem most can't see the direction the industry is steering toward and have fallen way behind. Unfortunately a company I had the utmost respect and admiration for is leading this charge with their new compensation package.
7thirtyseven wrote:Not to burst anyones bubble on their race to the bottom theories, nor their "how low can we go?" moans... Many moons ago I got hired on as an FO at a similar (but without the upside) company on a similar (read lower number) aircraft. Working through the numbers it looks to me like at 70hrs (the min) a month the fresh Encore FO will be my oh so long ago wage plus 3% per yr since then. Conclusion??? Encore isnt mining new depths.... Its the same old sucky pay its always been for new guys at regionals. Errr I mean at any airline.
One thing a new Encore guy will have is an upside and potential I could have only dreamed of.... If you cant figure out what that is Im afraid I cant help you.
Ok what's the upside that you "could only dream of? 15 years min to narrow body jet captain? During that time horrific pay, and much of your future gambled on hoping a particular stock value is somehow insulated from the financial turbulence that exists in the rest of the industry?
How is it set up for encore pilots who eventually go mainline? Do you get system seniority and then slide in at 37 pay commensurate with your years of service? If that's the case would it not be a pretty decent deal? If you went to AC isn't it 4 years of flat pay similar to these encore captain wages minus the other perks? Seems like people are also basing this on the absolute minimum of 70 hours too. I'd imagine you'd be above 80 and if you were to only get 70 that turns into 12-15 days off a month based on a min credit day being 4 or 4.5 hours. Anyways, just my thoughts. I was hoping they would at least match porter's pay scale but depending on how you slide into mainline this could be a great opportunity depending on where you're coming from.
From what I have been hearing, after 2 years when you transfer over to the '37 you slot in at your date of hire. However you start at year one pay for F/O's. There is nothing in the COE that covers this.
They are still meeting is what my bro says. In fact this week and its in discussions at the agreement level. That's why it's not in the initial agreement
What else ya hearing at jazz flyer
They have been talking since these threads first started. I know negotiations take a long time, but don't you think it should have been settled BEFORE the COE was issued? they had a year to do it since Encore was announced. IF I was looking at Encore (which I am not), I would want everything in black and white before I signed on. Status quo at Jazz, from what I hear. The Q's are working nicely, with crews that are paid a FAIR wage.
Has anyone heard if they are hiring just Captains to start and going Co-Captain or are they going to be hiring FO's too? I heard for the first little bit its just Captains but wasn't sure.
DH772 wrote:So after 3 years at Encore you are making about 30% less than a Jazz pilot?
No, you'll probably be a captain or at WJ after three years whereas you'll still be an FO at Jazz. I'd guess after 10 years you'll be making far more than if you decided to go to Jazz.
DH772 wrote:So after 3 years at Encore you are making about 30% less than a Jazz pilot?
No, you'll probably be a captain or at WJ after three years whereas you'll still be an FO at Jazz. I'd guess after 10 years you'll be making far more than if you decided to go to Jazz.
Probably a safe guess for the first couple dozen or couple hundred pilots hired at Encore, but growth doesn't last forever and at some point Encore will have a bunch of FO's looking at long upgrade times. Unless you believe WestJet is shopping for wide bodies...
No, you'll probably be a captain or at WJ after three years whereas you'll still be an FO at Jazz. I'd guess after 10 years you'll be making far more than if you decided to go to Jazz.
Yes you are correct if you are comparing someone going to Encore vs. Jazz. Not quite the case if you are comparing someone already at jazz for +5 years. And yes I know, I'm just comparing it from a regional stand point (Q400 to Q400). I'm not factoring in the flow through since we all know compensation will be greater.
ikarus wrote:
Career Progression
• Career progression opportunity within WestJet is available after a minimum of 24 months of service as a WestJet Encore Pilot.
Just thinking two years down the road, will there not be a mass exodus of direct entry Q400 captains itching to fly the 737?
I'm assuming mainline hiring is "as per company requirements"?
ikarus wrote:
Career Progression
• Career progression opportunity within WestJet is available after a minimum of 24 months of service as a WestJet Encore Pilot.
Just thinking two years down the road, will there not be a mass exodus of direct entry Q400 captains itching to fly the 737?
I'm assuming mainline hiring is "as per company requirements"?
Again, this is not covered in the COE. The last we heard there would be only 1 pilot from Encore vs 3 pilots coming off the street. I bet they will not change this ratio as the training costs would skyrocket. So, if WJ hires 100 pilots then only 25 would be coming from Encore. Works great if you are one of the lucky ones hired on at the start, but a long wait if you are at the back of the seniority list (sorry date of hire list).
I highly doubt WS will ever have widebody a/c in their fleet, but it's fun to speculate about. I know there are many expat widebody captains overseas like myself who would be quite happy to come back and assist with a widebody startup.
I'm sure that the mainline pilots would have no problem with initial crewing being done completely off the street, just like Encore...
complexintentions wrote:
I'm sure that the mainline pilots would have no problem with initial crewing being done completely off the street, just like Encore...
complexintentions wrote:I highly doubt WS will ever have widebody a/c in their fleet, but it's fun to speculate about. I know there are many expat widebody captains overseas like myself who would be quite happy to come back and assist with a widebody startup.
I'm sure that the mainline pilots would have no problem with initial crewing being done completely off the street, just like Encore...
I'd be willing to bet WS will. It's certainly been mentioned many many times by our Executive.
complexintentions wrote:I highly doubt WS will ever have widebody a/c in their fleet, but it's fun to speculate about. I know there are many expat widebody captains overseas like myself who would be quite happy to come back and assist with a widebody startup.
I'm sure that the mainline pilots would have no problem with initial crewing being done completely off the street, just like Encore...
I'd be willing to bet WS will. It's certainly been mentioned many many times by our Executive.
Ah yes the very old ploy on how to keep the employees (pilots in general) motivated. Management pulls this one out of their proverbial hat every few years and everyone falls all over themselves. It's good for laugh or two.
