Air Labrador Twin Otter Hard Landing

[golden hawk]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfoundl ... 03-27.html

Air Labrador plane makes hard landing in St. Anthony
No injuries reported to the eight passengers and two crew on board
CBC News Posted: Mar 27, 2013 4:28 PM NT Last Updated: Mar 27, 2013 4:13 PM NT


An Air Labrador Twin Otter made a hard landing at the St. Anthony Airport just after noon on Wednesday.

The plane's nose gear collapsed, and the front of the aircraft came in contact with the runway. Officials said the plane then veered to the side and came to a stop on the sand, on the side of the runway.

There were no injuries to the eight passengers and two crew who were on board.

The flight is known as a Skedevac, ferrying passengers around coastal Labrador and St. Anthony for Labrador Grenfell Health.

Air Labrador is sending a team to St. Anthony to investigate.

[bizjets101]

[rigpiggy]

How long to fix a station 60?

[Lurch]

I sure hope that's not the one they just had painted.

Lurch

[xsbank]

I thought every landing in a TO was a hard landing?

[Doc]

That's not a hard landing. That's a crash. Not a serious crash. But a crash.
Time for some dual.

[MUSKEG]

If you've got 2000 feet thats easy. If you've got 500 feet that can be hard.

[Doc]

If you've got 2000 feet thats easy. If you've got 500 feet that can be hard.

The runway is 4000 feet. Is that easy, or hard?

[MUSKEG]

Well I know what it should be. What is your best guess?

[Doc]

Well I know what it should be. What is your best guess?

No big. We've all pooched the odd landing....could have been worse I guess. I've seen guys "station 60" the TO in the north. I remember Bearskin really pooching one in YRL a bunch of years ago, resulting in (as usual) TC's knee jerk reaction requiring "special" training to use the machine as STOL, (otherwise, max flap for TO, 10, max flap for lndg, 20, I think it was?( which we had been doing for years?
Just, be careful out there....

[trey kule]

That's not a hard landing. That's a crash. Not a serious crash. But a crash.
Time for some dual.

Naw....that looks pretty much like the way my wife parks a car.

[Old fella]

That's not a hard landing. That's a crash. Not a serious crash. But a crash.
Time for some dual.

Naw....that looks pretty much like the way my wife parks a car.

I will tell her that......... and you won't get any for the next FOUR months

[trey kule]

HA! I laugh in the face of your threat....she doesnt know where I am getting it

[Siddley Hawker]

The weather has been shitty in AY for about a week. Winds are up to 35 - 40 kt most days, probably variable crosswinds on approach.

[av8ts]

Maybe it was an agitated waveloud or decreasing wind vector

[Ref Plus 10]

That's no Station 60 I've ever seen...looks to me like the nose gear be gone....Looks to me like someone forgot to mention to the engineers a hard landing or 7 before that...

[Siddley Hawker]

..looks to me like the nose gear be gone.

Agreed. There was a report on FB site of the YAY newspaper, where that pic was taken from, with a comment from a local guy who was a pax. He said something like "The wheel went over on her and she went nose first into the snow bank."

av8ts I think you may be on to something there.

[CD]

No big. We've all pooched the odd landing....could have been worse I guess. I've seen guys "station 60" the TO in the north. I remember Bearskin really pooching one in YRL a bunch of years ago, resulting in (as usual) TC's knee jerk reaction requiring "special" training to use the machine as STOL, (otherwise, max flap for TO, 10, max flap for lndg, 20, I think it was?( which we had been doing for years?
Just, be careful out there....

Are you maybe thinking of the Norontair "accident":

A92C0048 -Norontair De Havilland DHC-6-300 Twin Otter C-GQKZ - Red Lake, Ontario 19 March 1992

Synopsis

The occurrence flight was scheduled to proceed from Red Lake to Kenora, and then to Thunder Bay, Ontario. The flight crew arrived at the airport after a seven hour lay-over at Red Lake and prepared for departure. There were no passengers for the leg to Kenora, but there were passengers scheduled to fly out of Kenora to Thunder Bay.

During the taxi to the runway, the pre-take-off checks were completed and the captain conducted the briefing for a standard ten degree flap take-off. He then decided to practice a short take-off and landing (STOL) type take-off. He informed the first officer, and selected the flaps to 30 degrees. The captain lined up on the button of runway 08. The engines were set to take-off power and after approximately 300 feet of ground roll, the aircraft became airborne.

The aircraft became airborne after a take-off ground roll of approximately 300 feet. Initially the aircraft climbed, and then it began to descend. The aircraft then climbed again, more steeply than before, then suddenly descended in a steep nose-down attitude, crashing half-way down the runway. The captain received minor injuries; the first officer was seriously injured. The aircraft sustained substantial damage.

The Board determined that inappropriate short take-off and landing (STOL) take-off procedures were applied, which placed the aircraft in a flight regime outside of the aircraft performance envelope for sustained flight. The aircraft stalled at an altitude from which recovery was not possible.

Contributing to the occurrence was the general acceptance of the use of STOL techniques as an approved procedure.

Additional info here...

[Old fella]

HA! I laugh in the face of your threat....she doesnt know where I am getting it

She knows it's "Mrs Thumb and her four daughters"

[bizjets101]

TSB Photo

[RootandFive]

I did six years of spark farming with a company that's got a bunch of orange twotters... seen this before...

[Doc]

No big. We've all pooched the odd landing....could have been worse I guess. I've seen guys "station 60" the TO in the north. I remember Bearskin really pooching one in YRL a bunch of years ago, resulting in (as usual) TC's knee jerk reaction requiring "special" training to use the machine as STOL, (otherwise, max flap for TO, 10, max flap for lndg, 20, I think it was?( which we had been doing for years?
Just, be careful out there....

Are you maybe thinking of the Norontair "accident":

A92C0048 -Norontair De Havilland DHC-6-300 Twin Otter C-GQKZ - Red Lake, Ontario 19 March 1992

Synopsis

The occurrence flight was scheduled to proceed from Red Lake to Kenora, and then to Thunder Bay, Ontario. The flight crew arrived at the airport after a seven hour lay-over at Red Lake and prepared for departure. There were no passengers for the leg to Kenora, but there were passengers scheduled to fly out of Kenora to Thunder Bay.

During the taxi to the runway, the pre-take-off checks were completed and the captain conducted the briefing for a standard ten degree flap take-off. He then decided to practice a short take-off and landing (STOL) type take-off. He informed the first officer, and selected the flaps to 30 degrees. The captain lined up on the button of runway 08. The engines were set to take-off power and after approximately 300 feet of ground roll, the aircraft became airborne.

The aircraft became airborne after a take-off ground roll of approximately 300 feet. Initially the aircraft climbed, and then it began to descend. The aircraft then climbed again, more steeply than before, then suddenly descended in a steep nose-down attitude, crashing half-way down the runway. The captain received minor injuries; the first officer was seriously injured. The aircraft sustained substantial damage.

The Board determined that inappropriate short take-off and landing (STOL) take-off procedures were applied, which placed the aircraft in a flight regime outside of the aircraft performance envelope for sustained flight. The aircraft stalled at an altitude from which recovery was not possible.

Contributing to the occurrence was the general acceptance of the use of STOL techniques as an approved procedure.

Additional info here...

This was the one. Very sorry, I thought it was Bearskin. Methinks the Bear operated that segment of Norontair at that time? Interesting that they completed a SEVEN hour layover? Thought you needed EIGHT hours of "prone" rest. Might be a contributing factor right there? I was involved in Norontair much earlier than that. The company I worked for also operated the Twin Otter in STOL conditions. Regularly. Our guys received very good training on 30 flap take offs and full flap landings. One of our regular strips was 900 feet long. There was NO reason for Norontair to be using 30 flap for take off. It was a commuter operation.

[trey kule]

There was NO reason for Norontair to be using 30 flap for take off. It was a commuter operation.

Doc. Doc. Doc.....
Of course there was. It is a well known fact that when you have no pax on board a crew can use the company plane for training, or to do neat and unusual things.
Boys will be boys, and if the fo suffered serious injuries that is all just part of the game.
It is all about professionalism. I expect it will even be part of the vaunted professional college standards.

[Meatservo]

It's not really about professionalism. I would have imagined that anyone stupid enough, and I mean stupid as in "head full of ringer's solution" kind of stupid, to @#$! up a 30-flap takeoff in an empty 100 series twin otter wouldn't be able to figure out how to start the engines in the first place and would therefore not be a danger to himself and others.

Hopefully the "college standards" are at least that high.

No, I mean honestly, a goldfish could perform a 30 flap takeoff in a twin otter.

[PilotDAR]

No, I mean honestly, a goldfish could perform a 30 flap takeoff in a twin otter

Well, maybe two highly trained goldfish.... I was trained to fly 30 degree flap takeoffs in an empty 200, by a former dH test pilot. I feel that it is very challenging, requires two well co-ordinated pilots - and is pretty well a needless technique. Yes, you're off the ground in a couple of hundred feet, but in a phase of flight filled with peril. If this technique is needed to get a load out, better use an approved technique, and take less load out.....

Having done 5 or 6 of these takeoffs during an hour of purposeful training, I have never done them since (nor wanted to). I grew up during that hour of training, and it is out of my system. There are many things that planes will do, that they should not ever have to. 30 flap takeoff in a Twin Otter is one of them.