Air Tindi Fatal TSB Report To Be Released March 20, 2013

[cncpc]

Come on all you weekend tokers - long weekend starts tonight, who is going to light up? Maybe I'm not getting a response because you're already too baked to type? Out buying your stash from the high school kid?

"...unless he did the drugs between flights but I don't think anyone is that stupid." So, where do you draw the line? An hour before the flight? A day before the flight?

How many readers have witnessed a fellow worker smoking up after work or outside the pub? How many rampies smoke up behind the hangar at work? How many of you KNEW this poor dead pilot was a smoker?

I want a poll, this thread has been looked at more than 7000 times so there should be a good sample available - how many of you think its OK to be a commercial pilot and smoke up on your time off?

Methinks you do protest too much. You seem to have a bumbug about people who have different reasonable views to your own.

Marijuana is against the law. A very clear majority of Canadians believe it shouldn't be. You're all on the high horse here about pot and people giving out their names so their company will know. Where TF do you get off with that kind of horse's ass rubbish on a forum where you know goddamn well why people vote anonymously.

What's next? Owning up to masturbating.

You seem desperate to elevate yourself by a phony comparison to people who see things different than you do. To me, it's a bit too much of the "Look at what a fine fellow I am". I am reminded when I hear this kind of drivel of the quote from Shakespeare, "The more he spoke of his honor, the faster we counted our spoons".

[xsbank]

So CNCPC, I haven't called you an assh*le, nor have I opined that you might have your head up there, yet you attack me. Rather than waste your time attacking me, why don't you go ahead and state what you believe? If you believe its OK for a commercial pilot to toke up on his spare time, why don't you say so? Otherwise, you are just a background droning noise that nobody is listening to.

I think if anyone truly thinks its OK to smoke up on their time off, why not say so, admit it? Got balls?

I have come to believe that there is a significant proportion of bozos in this industry and now I am beginning to see why the term "pilot" and "professionalism" are mutually exclusive; perhaps why the wages and working conditions have stagnated - if the average yahoo can become employed as a pilot in this industry, why would anyone who does believe in professionalism wish to be associated with such dross?

Like I said earlier, I could GARA if you want to smoke up, I believe that all drugs should be legal, in fact. Just not for pilots.
Make a choice: drugs or pilot?

Can you explain to those of us who can't quote Shakespeare much, except the stuff I memorized in high school, how could having this position on pot and pilots possibly be self-aggrandizing?

[Chuck Ellsworth]

The customs officers at the US border are nailing Canadians who take pot across the border into the state of Washington because it is not illegal in Washington, and they are now asking people if they ever used it.

If you answer yes many years ago you are banned from entering the USA permanently.

It is possible to get permission to enter the USA after being banned, but it is expensive and valid for only five years.

It takes around one year from the date of applying for the five year exemption.

So back to flying and using marijuana, how many airlines will hire you if you are banned from entering the USA?

[CD]

As . noted:

Hazy pot laws causing confusion at U.S. border - March 24, 2013
Ever try pot? Answer yes, and U.S. won't let you in — ever - Fri March 29, 2013

[Doc]

Come on all you weekend tokers - long weekend starts tonight, who is going to light up? Maybe I'm not getting a response because you're already too baked to type? Out buying your stash from the high school kid?

"...unless he did the drugs between flights but I don't think anyone is that stupid." So, where do you draw the line? An hour before the flight? A day before the flight?

How many readers have witnessed a fellow worker smoking up after work or outside the pub? How many rampies smoke up behind the hangar at work? How many of you KNEW this poor dead pilot was a smoker?

I want a poll, this thread has been looked at more than 7000 times so there should be a good sample available - how many of you think its OK to be a commercial pilot and smoke up on your time off?

Methinks you do protest too much. You seem to have a bumbug about people who have different reasonable views to your own.

Marijuana is against the law. A very clear majority of Canadians believe it shouldn't be. You're all on the high horse here about pot and people giving out their names so their company will know. Where TF do you get off with that kind of horse's ass rubbish on a forum where you know goddamn well why people vote anonymously.

What's next? Owning up to masturbating.

You seem desperate to elevate yourself by a phony comparison to people who see things different than you do. To me, it's a bit too much of the "Look at what a fine fellow I am". I am reminded when I hear this kind of drivel of the quote from Shakespeare, "The more he spoke of his honor, the faster we counted our spoons".

You sound like a good candidate for the "College" of pilots. WOW, berating someone who disagrees with your opinion on Mary Jane? I suppose you have some deep seeded soft spot for folks who bed sheep? Or do most Canadians (in your pea sized imagination, at least) think that shouldn't be illegal either? You polished professional, you!

[Doc]

The customs officers at the US border are nailing Canadians who take pot across the border into the state of Washington because it is not illegal in Washington, and they are now asking people if they ever used it.

If you answer yes many years ago you are banned from entering the USA permanently.

It is possible to get permission to enter the USA after being banned, but it is expensive and valid for only five years.

It takes around one year from the date of applying for the five year exemption.

So back to flying and using marijuana, how many airlines will hire you if you are banned from entering the USA?

If you are brain dead enough to admit that you smoked dope to a customs agent, you deserve to be banned! You dumb, stupid carp! You think they want you down there impregnating their women folk? Hell no, mate! They want to keep marriage in the southern States within the family!

[LousyFisherman]

If I used my real name here you and others would remember me as someone who defends pot smokers. I have seen time and time again that standing up for what you believe in in this great country of ours can lead you to job loss and or jail time.

Thank you, more people need to do this! It is nice to meet others who feel as I do

I have no problem with someone doing drugs if that is what they want to do.
It is when their behavior affects others that I have a problem with drug users

100% agreement, no argument at all.

My personal opinion is if you want to do illegal drugs you should never ever be allowed to fly any commercial airplane.

Really, Cat? Think about it. Cocaine, LSD, marijuana, meth-amphetamine have all been legal in the past. Psylocybin (sp?), magic mushrooms are not illegal. Alcohol and tobacco have been illegal in the past. There is more abuse of legal prescription drugs than illegal drugs.

The use of drugs, and I include alcohol, nicotine and caffeine, is not a problem.
The abuse of drugs, whether legal or illegal is a massive problem.
The negative affects to society in trying to determine legality are immense. From drug gangs to crowded courts.

I'm a true libertarian on this. All drugs should be legal. Access should be regulated.

Tobacco, liquor, marijuana, ecstasy, magic mushrooms, mild amphetamines sold in the liquor store.
Serious amphetamines, barbituates (downers), prescirption drugs sold in a more controlled environment, maybe a pharmacy analog.
Heroin, and other seriously addictive drugs (tobacco sold in a medical setting where the 16 year old can see the 25 year old addict who has been doing it for 7-8 years

Take all the money saved in law enforcement and put it into treatment, rehab and support programs.

Of course I believe in legal brothels also.

LF

[LousyFisherman]

If you are brain dead enough to admit that you smoked dope to a customs agent, you deserve to be banned! You dumb, stupid carp! You think they want you down there impregnating their women folk? Hell no, mate! They want to keep marriage in the southern States within the family!

Are you suggesting it is acceptable to lie to US Immigration?.
If you are stupid enough to commit a felony/indictable offense to cross a border then you should not be flying.

You either refuse to answer the question or you tell the truth.

LF

[Chuck Ellsworth]

You either refuse to answer the question or you tell the truth.

Taking into consideration the fact that you may be asked if you have ever used pot in your lifetime the next time you cross the border and if you answer yes you will be banned from going into the USA permanently.

Now lets suppose you toked up just once in your youth.

If you refuse to answer the customs officers question where do you think it will go from there?

[LousyFisherman]

You either refuse to answer the question or you tell the truth.

Taking into consideration the fact that you may be asked if you have ever used pot in your lifetime the next time you cross the border and if you answer yes you will be banned from going into the USA permanently.
Now lets suppose you toked up just once in your youth.
If you refuse to answer the customs officers question where do you think it will go from there?

First off, no-one has been refused entry because they admitted to smoking dope. The idiot was smuggling and the lawyer is trying to gain publicity. Second, if you refuse to answer, they will tell you that they cannot let you enter unless you answer the question and do you wish to withdraw your application. ALWAYS withdraw the application, because then you have not been refused entry into the US.

Try again the next day, hope they ask different questions
Yes I am speaking from experience and I have paid for legal advice on the correct actions to take while passing through US Immigration.
After all, when you are considered a terrorist threat you better learn the system

It's funny how pilots disparage the newspapers about their accuracy about aviation incidents but have absolute trust they describe other incidents accurately.

LF

[Chuck Ellsworth]

Seems lawyers are like newspapers when it comes to facts.

I was listening to the lawyer from Blaine WA on the radio and he said that if you are asked the question and answer yes you will be barred from entering......

....he did not offer the advice of withdrawing the application.

I have crossed a few borders and wonder if you withdrew your application to enter what they would type in their computer?

[shimmydampner]

You dorks should probably get back on point before your non-aviation related ramblings get this thread locked like the last one. This ain't the water cooler.

[Sidebar]

I'm a true libertarian on this. All drugs should be legal. Access should be regulated.

A "true libertarian" would disagree with any amount of regulation.

[Doc]

US customs and smoking pot? This has WHAT to do with the subject of the thread???

[2.5milefinal]

Yea talk abut drifting off course or what.

[cncpc]

Come on all you weekend tokers - long weekend starts tonight, who is going to light up? Maybe I'm not getting a response because you're already too baked to type? Out buying your stash from the high school kid?

"...unless he did the drugs between flights but I don't think anyone is that stupid." So, where do you draw the line? An hour before the flight? A day before the flight?

How many readers have witnessed a fellow worker smoking up after work or outside the pub? How many rampies smoke up behind the hangar at work? How many of you KNEW this poor dead pilot was a smoker?

I want a poll, this thread has been looked at more than 7000 times so there should be a good sample available - how many of you think its OK to be a commercial pilot and smoke up on your time off?

Methinks you do protest too much. You seem to have a bumbug about people who have different reasonable views to your own.

Marijuana is against the law. A very clear majority of Canadians believe it shouldn't be. You're all on the high horse here about pot and people giving out their names so their company will know. Where TF do you get off with that kind of horse's ass rubbish on a forum where you know goddamn well why people vote anonymously.

What's next? Owning up to masturbating.

You seem desperate to elevate yourself by a phony comparison to people who see things different than you do. To me, it's a bit too much of the "Look at what a fine fellow I am". I am reminded when I hear this kind of drivel of the quote from Shakespeare, "The more he spoke of his honor, the faster we counted our spoons".

You sound like a good candidate for the "College" of pilots. WOW, berating someone who disagrees with your opinion on Mary Jane? I suppose you have some deep seeded soft spot for folks who bed sheep? Or do most Canadians (in your pea sized imagination, at least) think that shouldn't be illegal either? You polished professional, you!

Ummm...thanks. I think.

[J Roc]

My heart is completely broken right now. I knew this young man and some of his family from my days at Tindi. They were, and are, some of the kindest and most genuine people I have ever had the privilege of knowing. I won't comment on the findings of this report out of pure respect for this young pilots father (who I worked with for many years). What happened and why it happened is irrelevant to my connection to this story, but a report like this is a true tragedy for the family.

People who knew and know this family can not, I repeat CAN NOT, let this smear this young mans character of being a sweet, loving and amazing person! And the same goes for his entire family.

Once again, I'm not interested in debating this report. My heart and prayers go out to his entire family right now. May you find comfort during this difficult time, and never forget the true spirit of your beautiful son.

J RO

[lost in the north]

Did any of his co workers that hung around the pilot not know what he was doing?Would you blow the whistle on your buddy if he was drinking or smoking before reporting for duty?

[Doc]

Did any of his co workers that hung around the pilot not know what he was doing?Would you blow the whistle on your buddy if he was drinking or smoking before reporting for duty?

Ah, yes. And you wouldn't? If not, please strongly consider another line of work.

[BE20 Driver]

Ah, yes. And you wouldn't? If not, please strongly consider another line of work.

Easy to say and extremely hard to put into practice. I'm probably more aware of it now but in the past unless the pilot showed up drunk/high I used to tolerate situations where the other pilot was obviously not fit to fly. We have all been there and observed our buddy going the end of the night, chugging a couple of beer at 7 hours to reporting time. No one says anything because we don't want to burn anyone.

As I mentioned in my previous post, the older I get the less tolerant I am of this. Like one of the other posters said, you will now get one "sick" day no questions asked. After that, it's a habit - and an extremely unprofessional one at that - requiring a talk or an SMS.

I hate writing reports; but my ass is strapped in next to yours and it takes both of us to fly the machine. Don't make me write a report.

[lost in the north]

I would do the same,just wondering as it seems like soe of his co workers knew of his habits....

[human garbage]

I have crossed a few borders and wonder if you withdrew your application to enter what they would type in their computer?

I don't know but I got grilled the next few times I went down after I asked for my passport back and walked out of US Customs (when the officer was a dick). They didn't deny me entry but made it a bit more uncomfortable the next few. I had to explain what had happened originally each time. Obviously the co-workers thought the guy was a dick as well because they let me in. He was, but it seems like a requirement these days.

I don't go to the states much anymore. Feel like eventually I'll be given a Koran and sent to Gitmo. Maybe after I'm forced to admit I tried pot in high school from what . says...

I don't know what went into the computer but something did from my experience.

[Doc]

Had an interesting conversation with my partner in crime today. Having an illegal substance in your body seems to invalidate your licence, (haven't seen anything "official" yet, but we seem to assume it does?) what about illegal "activities"....? Does knocking over your local TD Bank invalidate your medical? Why not? Having pot in your system "may" in no way effect any other aspect of your ability to hold a medical. Your eyesight remains 20:20, your blood pressure is within limits, weight is good, colour vision......you see where I'm going here. Having a wee bit of alcohol in your system doesn't invalidate your medical. Although being "unwise" one could very well enjoy a rum and coke over lunch and have one's medical at 4:30 the same day....and have NO problem passing the medical. Now, you can't go flying with a wee bit of alcohol in your system, but your medical is still valid. So, why would your medical be invalid if you have a small amount of THC in your system? You can't "fly", but your medical would/should still be valid. You just can't fly. That day. So, I'd be willing to argue that your medical should still be valid.....same way it would be if you ran a grow op, ran a bawdy house, or ran a red light on the way to work. One has no bearing on the other.
I could be totally full of poop on this, but "your" opinions mean nothing to me. Unless it's quoted as part of the criminal code, or in "black and white" in some "official" publication, I ain't buying it.
BTW, I might have exceeded the speed limit (count on it) today. Should I rip up my medical?

[mbav8r]

Doc, the simple answer, there is no test for drug impairment, no test means if there is a small amount of THC in your system, they don't know if you smoked it 5 minutes ago or 5 days ago. So, they would have to assume the worst.
If you rob a bank and get CAUGHT, you will not be able to renew your medical from jail, if you get caught drinking and driving you will likely lose your pilot licence for half of your sentence at least. In Manitoba you get 6 months from DMV and 6 months from judge, the judges restriction will be from any motorized vehicle. Bottom line if you get caught doing something illegal, you're going to lose your licence somehow.

[godsrcrazy]

Doc can you say ILLEGAL substance? The fact is THC impairs your judgment. What amount of THC impairs your judgment who cares it is an ILLEGAL substance that is proven to impact your judgment. Why are you not arguing the fact that there are many legal prescription drugs that can cost you your medical. A licensed doctor can prescribe you medicine that the MOT doctor will pull your medical for using it.