First Year Air Canada Pay

[57Driver]

I am looking for more detailed information on first year F/O pay, benefits etc at Air Canada. Are the first 4 years the same at the mainline and Rouge? Does anyone know the average Embraer monthly take home pay? Does anyone have a recent job offer/contract they would be willing to post? (recent - last month or so) Any info would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

[HuD 91gt]

First Year T4, half on the new pay, half on the old pay was $46000 as EMB F/O. A class members flying as an RP was just shy of $50000. Tack on $5-8000 in per diems, and that is what you can expect.

[pilotbzh]

http://www.avcanada.ca/forums2/viewtopi ... 31&t=87129

see the pay on that topic

[ZBBYLW]

It's just over $50.00 an hour 50.27 if I recall correctly. Depends if you go 320/EMB/RP. I averaged 85 hours on reserve on the 320 taking most flights where some people turned them down and flew out my month early. This month I held a block and got 74ish hours (prior to any block growth, it usually ends up a bit higher once you wait for a de-ice a couple of times) I think the DBM on the EMB is around 65 right now so they'd be earning less. About $400 in per diems (with lots of turns) this month I have more layovers so ill earn more.

Got paid a $3000.00 advance and about $1500.00 on the 17th last month. Net I made about $3300.00 you don't pay for much (as a single guy-not sure if different with a family have not looked that far into the contract yet ) your benifits are all covered. All you pay is for Tax, EI, CPP an your pension contribution... Oh yeah and for those that get their parking they have to pay a tax on it. So you end up getting a lot of money into your pocket.

Cheers,
ZBBYLW

[altiplano]

Pretty much what zbb said... Except Mainline first year FO/RP goes to $51.78/hr this year, Rouge will be $48.35/hr for a first year FO when it gets going. Hours depend on position you go to +/-80/month for 320 FO or RP, bit less for EMB... who knows for Rouge... you can possibly pick up a bit of block growth or OT to help it out a bit...

[Floyd]

Other than the 320 in most of the entry level positions $50000 is highly unlikely. As an RP or EMJ F/O the minimum hours are more like 70 to 75 as a block holder which amounts to 65 to 67 hours as a reserve pilot. The per diems are much better on the overseas routes and they are far more than you need to eat well so you can pocket some money that way. Great job, easy work, crap pay (to start).

[Norwegianwood]

Hey Newbies!

Here is a great way to get a feel for a new company and break yourself in gently, try the relief pilot route for these reasons.....

1/ Get a course on a really big airplane. 777/A330/767/787 (they do type rate you)
2/ See how the company runs without the pressure of the flying (We know you can fly, that's why you got the job)
3/ Travel the world at the company's expense and stay at 5 star hotels.
4/ Great working conditions, time off, expenses! Great experienced people to work with and layover with!

The choice is yours but the pressure of the up/down, weather, high density NA airports etc., of the "lighter" craft in the fleet plus the huge overload of new information would definitely push me in that direction.

But then what do I know, I'm just an old fart!

NW

p.s. Don't be lulled into thinking you are a 5th wheel, stay involved with the crew and drain them for all the knowledge they have. Then when you are really comfortable, move on. Good luck to you all.

[57Driver]

Thanks for the input. Cheers

[MB22]

It's just over $50.00 an hour 50.27 if I recall correctly. Depends if you go 320/EMB/RP. I averaged 85 hours on reserve on the 320 taking most flights where some people turned them down and flew out my month early. This month I held a block and got 74ish hours (prior to any block growth, it usually ends up a bit higher once you wait for a de-ice a couple of times) I think the DBM on the EMB is around 65 right now so they'd be earning less. About $400 in per diems (with lots of turns) this month I have more layovers so ill earn more.

Got paid a $3000.00 advance and about $1500.00 on the 17th last month. Net I made about $3300.00 you don't pay for much (as a single guy-not sure if different with a family have not looked that far into the contract yet ) your benifits are all covered. All you pay is for Tax, EI, CPP an your pension contribution... Oh yeah and for those that get their parking they have to pay a tax on it. So you end up getting a lot of money into your pocket.

Cheers,
ZBBYLW

Hey ZBBYLW.

Thanks for the info. just curious, you mention your net pay is about $3300 every month? This is without the per diems, correct? Also, you mention per diems average about $400 per month. Would you happen to have an idea of how much you get compared to RP? Thanks in advance for the insight.

[DBC]

It's just over $50.00 an hour 50.27 if I recall correctly. Depends if you go 320/EMB/RP. I averaged 85 hours on reserve on the 320 taking most flights where some people turned them down and flew out my month early. This month I held a block and got 74ish hours (prior to any block growth, it usually ends up a bit higher once you wait for a de-ice a couple of times) I think the DBM on the EMB is around 65 right now so they'd be earning less. About $400 in per diems (with lots of turns) this month I have more layovers so ill earn more.

Got paid a $3000.00 advance and about $1500.00 on the 17th last month. Net I made about $3300.00 you don't pay for much (as a single guy-not sure if different with a family have not looked that far into the contract yet ) your benifits are all covered. All you pay is for Tax, EI, CPP an your pension contribution... Oh yeah and for those that get their parking they have to pay a tax on it. So you end up getting a lot of money into your pocket.

Cheers,
ZBBYLW

Hey ZBBYLW.

Thanks for the info. just curious, you mention your net pay is about $3300 every month? This is without the per diems, correct? Also, you mention per diems average about $400 per month. Would you happen to have an idea of how much you get compared to RP? Thanks in advance for the insight.

RP per diems would be low 400s at the low end, all the way up to 1000+ that it looks like some YYZ 67 RPs could do this month. I think i'm around 700 on average.

[MB22]

Thanks for clarification DBC.

[cpt.sam]

BLOCK....
is "holding" a block a privilege a person must earn?
Reserve, I understand is on call, less than 1 hour notice.
but what is a block????
thx

[The Raven]

BLOCK....
is "holding" a block a privilege a person must earn?
Reserve, I understand is on call, less than 1 hour notice.
but what is a block????
thx

There are 2 types of Blocks.

1...Regular Block....You bid on flying and are built a schedule based on your seniority on the aircraft and position. The more senior you are, the more likely you are to get a schedule that you asked for.

2...Reserve Block....You are built a schedule of days that you must be available (on call). It is usually 18 days a month that you are on call (on reserve). You have 12 days off. You have to be able to arrive at the airport within 2 hours after you get the call. You then have 1 hour and 15 minutes to get the flight out, so in reality you could probably live close to 3 hours away from the airport.

If you are on Reserve the only time you are forced to accept a last minute call (short call) is if you are bottom man on the Reserve list. Otherwise you can pass the flying to a person on Reserve that is junior to you.

There are all kinds of ways to get other days and time off while you are on Reserve. Too numerous to mention here. Some guys hate Reserve (me). Others can play the game well and love it.

Also, with a few exceptions, most people do not have to be on Reserve. It's really only the new hires that have to spend some time on Reserve. Even then, if you are lucky enough to get awarded an airplane that will have a lot of people assigned to it that will be junior to you, you may only have to be on Reserve for a couple of weeks.

[cj555]

2...Reserve Block....You are built a schedule of days that you must be available (on call). It is usually 18 days a month that you are on call (on reserve). You have 12 days off. You have to be able to arrive at the airport within 2 hours after you get the call. You then have 1 hour and 15 minutes to get the flight out, so in reality you could probably live close to 3 hours away from the airport.

When on reserve, you have to be available to arrive at the airport within 2 hours after you get the call right? So how does it work for what period you can expect to get a call? IE Is there ever a case when your "reserve" starts at say 7pm to 7am, which means you're off the entire day, but can expect a call to come in at anytime during the night? How often do people on reserve get called out in the middle of the night or at other "less than desirable" times?

[fallex]

As a second year EMJ FO, my pay currently varies between $2800-3200/mo take home. And yes that includes per diems. Lately I'm flying about 67-73 hours per month. It greatly depends on what you bid for, and I generally have been doing a lot of single day turns. This generally works out to be about 10-12 days/month, but the per diems are next to non-existant for this type of flying. Just my experience.

[The Raven]

2...Reserve Block....You are built a schedule of days that you must be available (on call). It is usually 18 days a month that you are on call (on reserve). You have 12 days off. You have to be able to arrive at the airport within 2 hours after you get the call. You then have 1 hour and 15 minutes to get the flight out, so in reality you could probably live close to 3 hours away from the airport.

When on reserve, you have to be available to arrive at the airport within 2 hours after you get the call right? So how does it work for what period you can expect to get a call? IE Is there ever a case when your "reserve" starts at say 7pm to 7am, which means you're off the entire day, but can expect a call to come in at anytime during the night? How often do people on reserve get called out in the middle of the night or at other "less than desirable" times?

I'm probably the last person that should be answering this. It's been years, nay decades, since I've been on Reserve. However, I do believe Reserve duty is 24 hours. You can sometimes get released from Reserve duty for several hours, depending on the Reserve coverage. I don't think that Crew Scheduling can call you before 05:00 AM (actually they can try, you don't have to answer).

The bottom line is that if you are the most junior person on Reserve, expect to get a lot of last minute calls (especially early morning).

Probably others can answer your questions better than me.

Remember though, that in most cases you have options. You don't have to stand Reserve for very long with Air Canada. Almost everyone has the option of bidding to a junior airplane (making slightly less money) and holding a Regular Block. Only the newest of the new hires will have to be on Reserve for a short period at the start of their career. I often hear pilots on the larger airplanes complain about being on Reserve. They don't have to be on Reserve. They can fly a smaller airplane, and have a good Regular Block if they choose. It's less money, but the quality of life is a lot better.

[MRP]

Although the collective agreement has a clause for reserve A and B (day/night) the company has chosen not to use it, at least on the aircraft I fly. Unless otherwise assigned by crew scheduling the rest period when you are not supposed to be contacted are between 2100 and 0500 local time. Having said that, they will try to contact you if the need you but there is no requirement to be available during the rest period.

[ratherbee]

Although EMJ FO hours are down right now that's because ACPA lost the E175 during their failed second round of negotiations. Once the training plan is completed expect the DBM's to return to normal around 80 hours. The contract requires AC to provide yearly total DBM's between 900-996 hours. Of course if you're on reserve you probably won't reach those totals.

If you're lucky to get the A320 FO your transition to formula is a pretty big jump but its more likely to expect rouge, relief or EMJ FO. If someone junior to you gets the A320 you will be paid the higher rate when you come off of fixed rate pay as long as you have been bidding for that position.

So, now the pay rates (not including expenses) for someone starting this year (on the EMJ) are roughly:

1st year: $52/hr
2nd year: $58/hr
3rd year: $68/hr
4th year: $78/hr
formula: $88/hr

rouge is slightly less but the minimum guaranteed pay is higher if you don't do much flying, but there are no reserve schedules at rouge.

edited to add EMJ "FO" thanks

[cj555]

If you're lucky to get the A320 FO your transition to formula is a pretty big jump but its more likely to expect rouge, relief or EMJ FO. If someone junior to you gets the A320 you will be paid the higher rate when you come off of flat pay as long as you have been bidding for that position.

So, now the pay rates (not including expenses) for someone starting this year (on the EMJ) are roughly:

1st year: $52/hr
2nd year: $58/hr
3rd year: $68/hr
4th year: $78/hr
formula: $88/hr

rouge is slightly less but the minimum guaranteed pay is higher if you don't do much flying, but there are no reserve schedules at rouge.

When you are quoting 1st, 2nd year etc, are you referring to the years after the 4 year flat pay? So in fact these rates would relate to the 5th, 6th, 7th and 8th year etc? I'm just confused because you're showing the pay increasing right from year 1, but I thought it was frozen for the first 4 years?

[Fanblade]

Cj555,

He is showing you the first 4 years. Year 5 you go to formula pay.

[Fanblade]

Although EMJ hours are down right now that's because ACPA lost the E175 during their failed second round of negotiations. Once the training plan is completed expect the DBM's to return to normal around 80 hours.

Ratherbee,

EMJ Captains for the most part have been consistently 80+ hours. There will be a lot of movement as the 787 arrives. They will show on bids starting this October. Some positions are currently padded as traditionally new hire training creates a bottle neck.

I wouldn't discount the company continuing this practice in the lowest paid positions.

[ratherbee]

If you're lucky to get the A320 FO your transition to formula is a pretty big jump but its more likely to expect rouge, relief or EMJ FO. If someone junior to you gets the A320 you will be paid the higher rate when you come off of flat pay as long as you have been bidding for that position.

So, now the pay rates (not including expenses) for someone starting this year (on the EMJ) are roughly:

1st year: $52/hr
2nd year: $58/hr
3rd year: $68/hr
4th year: $78/hr
formula: $88/hr

rouge is slightly less but the minimum guaranteed pay is higher if you don't do much flying, but there are no reserve schedules at rouge.

When you are quoting 1st, 2nd year etc, are you referring to the years after the 4 year flat pay? So in fact these rates would relate to the 5th, 6th, 7th and 8th year etc? I'm just confused because you're showing the pay increasing right from year 1, but I thought it was frozen for the first 4 years?

Yes, Fanblade is correct. Also the rates go up every year with our annual pay raises until 2015.

[altiplano]

If you're lucky to get the A320 FO your transition to formula is a pretty big jump but its more likely to expect rouge, relief or EMJ FO. If someone junior to you gets the A320 you will be paid the higher rate when you come off of flat pay as long as you have been bidding for that position.

So, now the pay rates (not including expenses) for someone starting this year (on the EMJ) are roughly:

1st year: $52/hr
2nd year: $58/hr
3rd year: $68/hr
4th year: $78/hr
formula: $88/hr

rouge is slightly less but the minimum guaranteed pay is higher if you don't do much flying, but there are no reserve schedules at rouge.

When you are quoting 1st, 2nd year etc, are you referring to the years after the 4 year flat pay? So in fact these rates would relate to the 5th, 6th, 7th and 8th year etc? I'm just confused because you're showing the pay increasing right from year 1, but I thought it was frozen for the first 4 years?

Seriously, how many times does this have to be rehashed... it's all on this site, no mystery here... company pay tables are posted for all to see...

http://www.avcanada.ca/forums2/viewtopi ... 7&start=25

These are from 2012, so figure the annual increases aswell for a little bump.

[yycflyguy]

Although EMJ FO hours are down right now that's because ACPA lost the E175 during their failed second round of negotiations.

Your memory is not accurate. There were no negotiations with the company and NC2. There is a forced FOS contract that we are dealing with.

[ratherbee]

Really? Then how did the NC2 spend over $2M in less than one year? If the Company was not bargaining in good faith then ACPA should have filed a complaint with the CIRB. They did not. There was plenty of negotiating going on it just didn't produce any positive results. NC2 negotiated the elimination of group pay, multi month blocking, cash for crew meals, hourly expenses, and got us bidding restrictions. Then the rest went to arbitration.

The $258M lost from the TA has an impact on all of us but particularly the new hires whose careers will be impacted for a long time. In fact, replacing their 4 year flat rate pay with B777 CA pay would not come close to compensating them for the negligence of our elected officials that resulted in ACPA losing the Final Offer Selection arbitration.