Porter/Bombardier set to announce CS100 order . . .

[ogc]

There's no way they would be publicly announcing this without some behind the scene hand shakes and assurances that the plan will go ahead. More power to them, I like their product and would be glad to see them expanding.

[DanWEC]

No surprise here but already some opposition to the announcement.

http://tinyurl.com/d7bxqd9

“The likelihood of the city council agreeing to put a 500-foot extension of the runway into Lake Ontario right where our drinking water is drawn from for the downtown core and putting jets on that tarmac and then allowing extra flights and noise in an airport that can barely handle its extra capacity is just not in the cards,” Mr. Vaughan said.

He announcement was just made, and there is an article in the Toronto Star about it. I can't believe what a political hotbed the Island airport is, in a city of 5 million people who should have much more to worry about.

I think the views of councillors like Vaughn are hilarious, he's just trying to have an opinion on the matter with no background or evidence. Might he forget that there is a constant stream of fill going out onto Leslie spit on a daily basis, which is now over a kilometer into the Lake?

[Beefitarian]

NIMBYs get stuffed! You will love being able to take a quick taxi cab to fly on vacation.

[Bede]

There's no way they would be publicly announcing this without some behind the scene hand shakes and assurances that the plan will go ahead. More power to them, I like their product and would be glad to see them expanding.

Maybe, maybe not. The sales are conditional to rwy extension and changes in the tripartite agreement. The politician fighting against Deluce will have to take responsibility for a $2B loss to Canada's (Quebec's) favoured corporate welfare queen. You can bet the federal Conservatives will do everything they can to make sure this deal happens.

Congrats Porter.

[photofly]

How would you feel if the expansion of Porter came at the expense of closing the last flight school at YTZ and shutting out GA entirely?

[Beefitarian]

How would you feel if the expansion of Porter came at the expense of closing the last flight school at YTZ and shutting out GA entirely?

Pretty good, but I am very upset they kicked us out of YYC so I understand why, if you would not like it.

[Johnny#5]

There's no way they would be publicly announcing this without some behind the scene hand shakes and assurances that the plan will go ahead. More power to them, I like their product and would be glad to see them expanding.

Maybe, maybe not. The sales are conditional to rwy extension and changes in the tripartite agreement. The politician fighting against Deluce will have to take responsibility for a $2B loss to Canada's (Quebec's) favoured corporate welfare queen. You can bet the federal Conservatives will do everything they can to make sure this deal happens.

Congrats Porter.

Exactly.

I think they've been playing a nice game of chess so far...

[ILS26_Steep]

It's conditional as well on Performance numbers and other factors. This plane IS NOT in full production and its not certified yet.
Bombardier has to ensure the numbers promised are represented in flight testing as well! Once you get an extra 1000feet added to a runway and then we find out it should of been 1200feet, well it's a big issue.

Of course the agreement is gonna be modified for the whole YTZ operation. Bombardier lobbyist are already at work, they don't want to see a $2 Billion dollar deal flushed because of a City Councillor who has a stupid opinion on the matter. Job's being created and a boost to the economy in Canada's aviation sector is all on the table. Governments look stupid to say no to this kinda thing. It'll happen, but probably not in 6 months like RD thinks!

[tailgunner]

Will they allow for a second terminal not owned by Porter? If Porter gets their jets approval, i am convinced that AC/SR or WJ will also have a jet waiver. All of the jets meet stage 3 noise regulations.....this will get interesting.

[photofly]

There's plenty of physical space at YTZ if only there was vehicle access to the south side of the field. If they're extending the runway maybe they can contrive to do that. At present 08/26 extends to the water at both ends.

[props ahead]

Anyone that thinks BobbyD hasn't thought this out and doesn't already have a very good idea that this will work....is crazy! Of course the Port Authority would want a National Airport on their hands. The feds are probably already on board because of all the benefits financially and for jobs. If Toronto wants to consider themselves one of the mega-cities of North America/World they will need to encourage progress not run from it.
There will be many naysayers of course...but they have been there at every stage of Porters development.
The six month timeline is a little exaggerated but they have more time then that to work with. I wish them all the best and would love to see it all happen. Will be very interesting to watch it all unfold....

[PilotDAR]

vehicle access to the south side of the field

How about another access tunnel under the runway? I know where they could put the excavated soil!

I'm happy to see Porter's success, though I do mourn the impact on the GA on the north side. I was in there a couple of months ago, and could hardly find parking at all.

I agree that this is a cunning chess game, well played - I cannot wait to watch. All of those out of place condos along the lakefront must be full of NIMBYs, but they have no one but themselves to blame, The airport has been there for 70 plus years, it did not just pop in!

I sure hope that YTZ is entrenched enough that it is not driven into history like Meigs in Chicago.

I do hope though, that Porter also casts an eye north to Barrie Oro Airport as another destination, it's primed, and will save many people trips into Toronto to fly....

[Dash-Ate]

Some say the additional Fokker 100 type killed Jetsgo...if they'd just stuck to their core type & routes.
Will history repeat here?

Ehh, no. Michel Leblanc killed JetsGo, along with his other 6 failed airlines.

If you follow the poster on here 'Realtychex' he claims porter is always losing money. What's Deluce done? Even the markets didn't wish to buy his stock offering. And they are the smart money.

How is a new type going to help? And possibly going head to head with Encore who will crush them in price and AC Express coming in to match? Good luck with that.
What'll they pay on the jets...let me guess F/O $38k, Cptn 60k.
Dreaming. More like 32k and 55k

[Dash-Ate]

http://torontoist.com/2013/04/porter-an ... -proposal/
Adam Vaughan (Ward 20, Trinity-Spadina) represents the area where the island airport is located; he could not have been more adamant about his concerns: “It’ll have a huge impact on everything from the quality of our drinking water, to the enjoyment of the waterfront that we’re currently rebuilding, to creating the noise and disturbance that jets bring… This is everyone’s worst fears coming to fruition.”

[Bede]

BTW you can't use the tunnel soil for a runway extension. The runway extension needs compacted "B" gravel topped with compacted "A" gravel. The tunnel soil is probably organic silty aggregate- useless for anything other than gardens.

[DonutHole]

solution:

give the lefties the fertile tunnel soil to augment their marijuana growing operations.

everybody walks away happy (as long as they don't sell the weed to the pilots, amiright?

[Dash-Ate]

Toronto's solution to jets:

Groovy.

[omgwereallgoingtodie]

Not all of us in the condos are Nimbys
I live pretty much opposite the airport and love t here
I like the airport, I fly on vacation from there
I'm also learning to fly from the last remaining school there
I like porter, they are a great airline

However I do have concerns about this

The runway expansion could prove problematic for the boat traffic in and out of the inner harbor , traffic which is just as economically important as the airport

I suspect it will be the death call for GA out of CYTZ, even now you can spend 10 minutes at the hold short line waiting to be squeezed in between the commercial traffic, longer runways = longer taxi times = more cost for less flying

I think porter have been a little sneaky about this to be honest and not done themselves any favors. The ridiculous anti airport lobby was just starting to quieten down. This has fanned the flames .

[Old fella]

Seems to me to be lots of "if's". Mr Porter will buy some C series jets if the Toronto Port Authority lifts the jet restrictions and if the runway(s) are extended(at whose expense hasn't been determined). Also airport infrastructure like terminal bldg, parking would have to be expanded would it not, also could see protracted legal battles between the proponents(Porter, business community etc) and the segment of the population who hate airports and planes and the usual tree huggers. There will be a lot going on with the Porter C series proposal, needless to say.

[vortac]

It was a great long shot for Porter but this thing will be dead in the water. There is no way that the city of Toronto will allow the island to get even one square foot larger for the purpose of an airport. It took the last decade for the city to realize it even had a waterfront, and now that it is slowly becoming a place for living, recreation and tourism; the notion of a busy (Pearson-like) airport will overcome any need for a bigger downtown airline.

The main reason there has been a condo boom in the core has everything to do with the waterfront becoming a place of recreation, scenery, and atmosphere. The city needed this in order to curb what seems an unstoppable urban sprawl, not to mention the benefits of property taxation to the city. The issue of a larger island airport has always been contentious, and the airport has been given an opportunity to be something more than it was via Porter, but the notion of increasing daily movements by another 1/3 will simply be too much to bear.

Mr. Deluce isn't stupid if everyone hasn't figured that out yet. This is just Plan A, and Plan B is definitely standing by. They will warn of the deal being likely cancelled but the inevitable will happen and the jets will just be flying out of YUL or YOW. After all, I suspect there is 40% of unused empty seats on the Q400s that can be used to link YYZ passengers to the jets elsewhere.

[photofly]

Which one of you is Brian Iler?

[linecrew]

Maybe if Porter starts to fly in to YTZ with these quiet jets, the value of the lakeside condos will come down to a slightly less insane price. This might then drive away the hardcore NIMBY folks to be replaced with others that are a little more understanding of the fact that if you live in a huge city, you'll have the noise associated with living downtown in a huge city.

[justwork]

BTW you can't use the tunnel soil for a runway extension. The runway extension needs compacted "B" gravel topped with compacted "A" gravel. The tunnel soil is probably organic silty aggregate- useless for anything other than gardens.

It's already come back from environmental assessment and has been approved to "shallow" the marine exclusion zone, I don't know if they're doing it or not. There is a nice PDF on the TPA website under the media room tab.

It's a couple hundred feet each way, the noise will be negligible if you can hear it at all over the street cars, the Gardiner, and the trains. It creates jobs and dumps $2 Billion into Quebec. Remind me why this wont go through? If the concern is about other airlines bringing louder jets in then put a EPNdB limit on aircraft, with the advancement of jet technology it isn't fair to lump them all into one type - jet.

NIMBY's. I shake my head. In Vancouver you would have all the folks in Richmond complaining about YVR noise. The airport was there first, you knew about it, you bought a place there anyway, now you're complaining about it. Anyone remember the FU YVR house on final 26R?

Where is the logic. If I buy a house beside some train tracks I wont expect the tracks to be moved, the train schedule set to accommodate my schedule, the type of trains to be driven on the track are quiet and less polluting. I just wont buy a place by the train tracks. So if you buy a condo with a view of the lake and AIRPORT, why would you expect the airport to not be an airport?

[ptc]

if anyone is interested check out www.porterplans.com
It does a pretty good job of outlining what is planned and what isn't. One of the major things not being planned is an extension of the MEZ.

[bizjets101]

posted by Props on AvCanada