ACPA ratification of 777/787 agreement?
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ACPA ratification of 777/787 agreement?
Voting ends June 19. What is the sentiment out there with regards to this vote amongst ACPA members? I heard the crew rest issue was largely solved with respect to ULH flying, and the pay was to be per the formula, yet on another board it appears that NO seems to be the general feeling. Is this true and why?
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b767jetmec
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Jaques Strappe
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I am hearing that there is a rogue group trying to convince people to vote no unless the company throws out the awarded Keller seniority list and implements a different one. They think they speak for all the original Air Canada pilots, which they don't.
They do not seem to realize that the company has nothing to do with the seniority issue and that nothing will come of their scheme. These people should just move on, life is too short. I think they are still trying to solve who killed Kennedy.
I don't think too many of the pilots take them very seriously anyway.
They do not seem to realize that the company has nothing to do with the seniority issue and that nothing will come of their scheme. These people should just move on, life is too short. I think they are still trying to solve who killed Kennedy.
I don't think too many of the pilots take them very seriously anyway.
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quickflight
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- Location: near margaritaville
I was on the phone with a friend in acpa and he seems to think that there are a few guys that want to leverage their position for unknown gains but most of the crews justwant to get this voted on and get the aircraft on the ramp. As with all groups there are going to bethe majority that want the airline to suceed and be prosperous and a few short sighted individuals that can't see past their own motives.
hook low flare late
Thanks Jacques.
ps. the other board is the airline forum at http://www.theairlinewebsite.com but you have to pay to play ($24.99 per yr).
ps. the other board is the airline forum at http://www.theairlinewebsite.com but you have to pay to play ($24.99 per yr).
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b767jetmec
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- Location: North of Nowhere
they have cancelled the order
http://micro.newswire.ca/release.cgi?rk ... -0&Start=0
http://micro.newswire.ca/release.cgi?rk ... -0&Start=0
It wasn't really a pay issue it had more to do with working conditions...IE. hours worked per month and for the jr pilots the rp positions being placed in the Position Group pay scale rather than normal pay tables.
Over all though it was a request by the company for concessions at a time when the company is doing well and we have a contract in place until 2009 which (was negotiated by the company just last year) and if the company would just follow it we would have no problems instead they come back to us over and over asking us to do more for less and the guys/and gals finally had enough of giving and said no
Over all though it was a request by the company for concessions at a time when the company is doing well and we have a contract in place until 2009 which (was negotiated by the company just last year) and if the company would just follow it we would have no problems instead they come back to us over and over asking us to do more for less and the guys/and gals finally had enough of giving and said no
I heard and only heard 
Company asked for 7.5 block (one trip, stand up, overnight?) more. Online with Delta's conditions... can nay one here confirm. Pay was increase... was that true? I'm sure one of the Yes voters in the forum can spill 
Oh well is all I can say, ACPA (its memebrs) are known through out he world, as slaves and low wagers for time. This move is an interesting one... good luck 
Company asked for 7.5 block (one trip, stand up, overnight?) more. Online with Delta's conditions... can nay one here confirm. Pay was increase... was that true? I'm sure one of the Yes voters in the forum can spill Oh well is all I can say, ACPA (its memebrs) are known through out he world, as slaves and low wagers for time. This move is an interesting one... good luck "Ground 1120 at checkpoint.... 3! ahh sorry we should have got you at 1....." "1120 hold short, hold short where are you going?"
Air Canada Notifies Boeing of Aircraft Order Cancellation Following Results of Pilot Vote
MONTREAL, June 18 /CNW Telbec/ - Air Canada said today that it has been
informed by the Air Canada Pilots Association (ACPA) that the tentative
agreement on costs and other issues relating to the Boeing order has been
rejected by the union membership. ACPA leadership had recommended ratification
of the tentative agreement which had been negotiated with the assistance of
Mediator Mr. M.G. Mitchnik. The Company accepts the pilots' decision and has
notified Boeing of the order cancellation.
The agreement with Boeing announced April 25 was subject to the
successful completion of certain conditions including the negotiation of
satisfactory terms by the airline with its pilots. The order is subject to
cancellation without penalty.
"We are naturally disappointed at having to cancel the wide body aircraft
order but these aircraft can only be brought into our fleet on a pre-
determined economic basis. Despite best efforts on the part of ACPA, the
agreement has been rejected," said Montie Brewer, President and CEO of Air
Canada. "Following a successful restructuring, Air Canada has been transformed
into a viable carrier. We cannot lose sight of the effort it took to get to
where the airline is today and while the cancellation of this aircraft order
will be disappointing to our employee group at large, including many of our
pilots, it is the right decision given the circumstances.
"The cancellation of the order is not material to our business plan over
the next few years. There is no longer a requirement for a cash outlay to
secure the order and we will seek to find alternative aircraft (of types
covered by the current collective agreement) in the used market for the three
777-300ER aircraft contemplated for 2006 delivery under this order (two for
Q2/06 and a third during Q4/06). We will adjust our plans and it is
anticipated that the company will continue to grow on an unaltered basis. The
critical component of the Boeing order were the 787 aircraft scheduled for
delivery in 2010 and beyond to replace our Boeing 767 fleet. In time we will
re-address this requirement.
"I thank ACPA's leadership for their efforts to secure an agreement which
would have allowed us to go forward with ordering new aircraft at this time.
It is naturally my hope that in time we will find ways to bring new aircraft
into the fleet in a manner acceptable to the company and our pilots," said Mr.
Brewer.
The agreement with Boeing included firm orders for 18 Boeing 777s, plus
purchase rights for 18 more, in a mix of the 777 family's newest models: the
777-300ER, the 777-200LR Worldliner , and the newly announced 777 Freighter.
Air Canada's 777 deliveries were scheduled to begin next year with the arrival
of three 777-300ERs in 2006. The renewal plan also included firm orders for 14
Boeing 787 Dreamliners, scheduled for delivery in 2010.
Montréal-based Air Canada provides scheduled and charter air
transportation for passengers and cargo to more than 150 destinations on five
continents. Canada's flag carrier is the 14th largest commercial airline in
the world and serves more than 29 million customers annually.
Air Canada is a founding member of Star Alliance providing the world's
most comprehensive air transportation network.
The statements made in this release concerning the Company's future
prospects are forward-looking statements that involve risks and uncertainties,
which may prevent expected future results from being achieved. For those
statements, we claim the protection of the safe harbour for forward-looking
statements contained in the securities laws. The Company cautions that actual
future performance could be affected by a number of factors, including
regulatory change and competitive factors, many of which are beyond the
Company's control. Therefore, future events and results may vary substantially
from what the Company currently foresees. Additional information identifying
risks and uncertainties is contained in the Company's 2004 Management's
Discussion and Analysis (MD&A) and in other filings with securities
commissions in Canada and the United States.
%SEDAR: 00020954EF
MONTREAL, June 18 /CNW Telbec/ - Air Canada said today that it has been
informed by the Air Canada Pilots Association (ACPA) that the tentative
agreement on costs and other issues relating to the Boeing order has been
rejected by the union membership. ACPA leadership had recommended ratification
of the tentative agreement which had been negotiated with the assistance of
Mediator Mr. M.G. Mitchnik. The Company accepts the pilots' decision and has
notified Boeing of the order cancellation.
The agreement with Boeing announced April 25 was subject to the
successful completion of certain conditions including the negotiation of
satisfactory terms by the airline with its pilots. The order is subject to
cancellation without penalty.
"We are naturally disappointed at having to cancel the wide body aircraft
order but these aircraft can only be brought into our fleet on a pre-
determined economic basis. Despite best efforts on the part of ACPA, the
agreement has been rejected," said Montie Brewer, President and CEO of Air
Canada. "Following a successful restructuring, Air Canada has been transformed
into a viable carrier. We cannot lose sight of the effort it took to get to
where the airline is today and while the cancellation of this aircraft order
will be disappointing to our employee group at large, including many of our
pilots, it is the right decision given the circumstances.
"The cancellation of the order is not material to our business plan over
the next few years. There is no longer a requirement for a cash outlay to
secure the order and we will seek to find alternative aircraft (of types
covered by the current collective agreement) in the used market for the three
777-300ER aircraft contemplated for 2006 delivery under this order (two for
Q2/06 and a third during Q4/06). We will adjust our plans and it is
anticipated that the company will continue to grow on an unaltered basis. The
critical component of the Boeing order were the 787 aircraft scheduled for
delivery in 2010 and beyond to replace our Boeing 767 fleet. In time we will
re-address this requirement.
"I thank ACPA's leadership for their efforts to secure an agreement which
would have allowed us to go forward with ordering new aircraft at this time.
It is naturally my hope that in time we will find ways to bring new aircraft
into the fleet in a manner acceptable to the company and our pilots," said Mr.
Brewer.
The agreement with Boeing included firm orders for 18 Boeing 777s, plus
purchase rights for 18 more, in a mix of the 777 family's newest models: the
777-300ER, the 777-200LR Worldliner , and the newly announced 777 Freighter.
Air Canada's 777 deliveries were scheduled to begin next year with the arrival
of three 777-300ERs in 2006. The renewal plan also included firm orders for 14
Boeing 787 Dreamliners, scheduled for delivery in 2010.
Montréal-based Air Canada provides scheduled and charter air
transportation for passengers and cargo to more than 150 destinations on five
continents. Canada's flag carrier is the 14th largest commercial airline in
the world and serves more than 29 million customers annually.
Air Canada is a founding member of Star Alliance providing the world's
most comprehensive air transportation network.
The statements made in this release concerning the Company's future
prospects are forward-looking statements that involve risks and uncertainties,
which may prevent expected future results from being achieved. For those
statements, we claim the protection of the safe harbour for forward-looking
statements contained in the securities laws. The Company cautions that actual
future performance could be affected by a number of factors, including
regulatory change and competitive factors, many of which are beyond the
Company's control. Therefore, future events and results may vary substantially
from what the Company currently foresees. Additional information identifying
risks and uncertainties is contained in the Company's 2004 Management's
Discussion and Analysis (MD&A) and in other filings with securities
commissions in Canada and the United States.
%SEDAR: 00020954EF
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Jaques Strappe
- Rank (9)
- Posts: 1847
- Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2005 6:34 pm
- Location: YYZ
Well Milty has been caught lying yet again!
He was going on about how those airplanes are gone and the market is dry yet he has applied to the CIRB to order another vote! Vote for what Rob? I thought all the airplanes were gone? What a tool.
He must think that the entire world is incredibly stupid and that everyone hangs off his every word. I for one will be voting no again unless the deal is existing contract or better.
At this rate, every new airplane pay rate will be arbitrated, in which case we might as well not have a contract at all and save the union dues. I sent this exact sentiment to the newly elected MEC chair.
He was going on about how those airplanes are gone and the market is dry yet he has applied to the CIRB to order another vote! Vote for what Rob? I thought all the airplanes were gone? What a tool.
He must think that the entire world is incredibly stupid and that everyone hangs off his every word. I for one will be voting no again unless the deal is existing contract or better.
At this rate, every new airplane pay rate will be arbitrated, in which case we might as well not have a contract at all and save the union dues. I sent this exact sentiment to the newly elected MEC chair.
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quickflight
- Rank 4
- Posts: 225
- Joined: Tue Apr 12, 2005 8:09 am
- Location: near margaritaville
