Why I Got Out of Aviation

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shankdown
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Post by shankdown »

Good things do happen in the personal lives of pilots.

I had that shitty job slugging it out in the cold northern isolation. I had to get out there with the 40 year old herman/nelson and coax it into operation an hour before the flight only to find out that the flight was cancelled. I had drunks banging on my door begging me to take em to the liquor store. I had the boss demanding I take a broken airplane flying while TC was standing right there doing an audit. I've had to miss the births of 2 neices and 2 nephews. I've had to miss a bunch of weddings. A girl I was in love with left me because I wasn't around enough due to my job. And damn that, too, cause I woulda bloody well married the girl. I've seen co-workers more inexperienced than I sail past me in their careers. I had to get the chilling news that my buddy plowed an airplane into a hill killing himself and everyone on board. I've had to deal with a boss that was cracking the whip on my ass to fly an airplane hugely overweight. I've been massively underpaid because the boss is armed with the knowledge that he could throw a dart into Vancouver and hit a pilot who'd fly for less.

Good things happen to pilots.

I've got to see the sun set 5 times in one flight because I could keep climbing the plane every time the sun sank below the horizon. I've even had the 2 hour sunset, where you just keep chasing it into the horizon. I've also been up north to see the sunset that just ever-so-gradually turned into a sunrise. I've got to skim the waves that were breaking on a deserted Columbian beach. I've tried keeping up to the turns in the Great Bear River. I've been the pilot of probably the very first airplane that children in rural West Africa have ever seen up close. I still enjoy the greaser landings. I'm never truly bored in the airplane, even half way through a 5 hour night flight, because I'm doing what I've always wanted to do. The list of the cool stuff can keep going on, but I haven't made my point yet.

Today is my 27th birthday. I've been with the same company for 4 years now and I love it. I fly a Learjet... an airplane I've wanted to fly since I was in Grade 9. One more dream fulfilled. I get paid well by most standards. I own a truck and shiny motorbike... all paid for because of aviation. I've just signed the dotted line on a brand new condo on the Red Mile of Calgary. Geez, I'll be able to damn near throw a rock onto my favorite places to drink beer. I've got money saved up because I get paid well enough to save it. I think I'm due for a raise, too ;) I've got to travel during my cumulative 5 months off a year. Backpacked through Europe, and hung out on beaches in Mexico. I snowboard, visit family, eat good food, go to concerts... pretty much anything I feel like doing. Sometimes when I'm working, I lie on beaches as well, confusing me as to whether or not this time at work should be considered vacation. I believe I'll one day fly for Air Canada, WestJet, or perhaps one of this worlds other major airlines. And if I don't, I'll will have decided that a life flying a Falcon for rich people will be a satisfying one. This all happened because I worked hard along the way, got a little lucky, turned down the jobs I needed to turn down, and held my focus. But primarily, it happened just because I wanted to fly planes for a living. I can hardly claim to have worked a day since I left construction. Geez, I haven't a clue what I'd do with myself if I didn't have aviation!!!

You can't always control which direction your career will take you. But you can keep working hard, and you'll earn your breaks. Sometimes you need to make your own breaks. And if you don't truly love it, the decision to leave will be made easy at some point or another. I don't point out my good fortune in aviation to wave it infront of all the guys who are getting pissed on. Rather, I'm trying to show people that there are good paths to take in this industry, and not all employers are bad ones. I hope this comes as encouragement to some who are questioning the whole thing.

Shankdown
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Mitch Cronin
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Post by Mitch Cronin »

Great post Shankdown! Good on ya mate.

Happy Birthday! 8)
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Post by BuckNiner »

Great post Shankdown! Finally refreshing to hear some positive talk for a change.
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Jaques Strappe
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Post by Jaques Strappe »

I think "positive attitude" may be more appropriate.

Great post and I firmly believe you will realize your dreams. Hell, you already are! Congtrats! 8)
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BuckNiner
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Post by BuckNiner »

Hey Strappe, guess you weren't quick enough to catch the "Rickyism".
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planett
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Post by planett »

That requires too much brain thinkins.
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Go Guns
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Post by Go Guns »

Shankdown, thats a great post.

I had a passenger comment the other day that we as pilots must get bored going back and forth to the same places all the time. My reply was quick and simple "Nope, I can't think of a single moment I sat up front and thought I was bored".

I just left Northern Manitoba. Three years and four months after moving there from the sunny Okanagan. My walls are covered in photo's I got flying around up there. I've got CD's full of digital memories. Not a single regret.

Only 1500 hours into my career, I can't imagine doing anything else.
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Post by ... »

.....
.....
excellent post.

Maybe the best of it's topic I have read on here.

Who knew shankdown had it in him/her. :wink:
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Hun IN the SUN
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Post by Hun IN the SUN »

This is the best thread ive read on Avcanada, Shankdown that really puts everything into perspective, Thanks for posting that. Things are really turning a corner, Good luck to everybody out there.
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desksgo
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Post by desksgo »

Yes, a lovely inspirational plot. Like the widowed mother of 5 that wins the lottery and tells me that dreams do come true. But, there is 1 Shankdown for every 1000 ludacrises. I refuse to bet the remainder of my 20's on catching a break; a break that will inevitably have me become a $15,000 per year doormat. I've seen people work twice as hard as me with triple the talent and still have mutants who can't write in anything but crayon still get ahead of them.

I never really was a betting man.

I'm ready to fold my hand, you can keep the pot.
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Jaques Strappe
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Post by Jaques Strappe »

BuckNiner wrote:Hey Strappe, guess you weren't quick enough to catch the "Rickyism".
I guess not, I am still workin on getting my grade 10.
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AZN 027
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Post by AZN 027 »

thanks shankdown. That post was quite encouraging. Its good to see both sides sometimes.
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evalle
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Post by evalle »

desksgo wrote:Yes, a lovely inspirational plot. Like the widowed mother of 5 that wins the lottery and tells me that dreams do come true. But, there is 1 Shankdown for every 1000 ludacrises. I refuse to bet the remainder of my 20's on catching a break; a break that will inevitably have me become a $15,000 per year doormat. I've seen people work twice as hard as me with triple the talent and still have mutants who can't write in anything but crayon still get ahead of them.

I never really was a betting man.

I'm ready to fold my hand, you can keep the pot.
You are 100% right, it's nice to see people that make it, but the reality is that most of the pilots do not make it!!!! I know a guy that droped out a King Air captain position because was tired to borrow money from his parents, now he works in costruction and makes a fortune compare of what he was making before, when he miss flying he rents an airplane...
I hope i will be a Shankdown too, it must be great for you and i am really happy that you made it, but are we sure that the industry works now? Do you think is ok that you employer ask you to fly a broken airplane? Most of the kid say "yes sure!!!" only because they don't want to piss off thei employer. TC talk a lot about safety, do they ever focus about these issues? I know you CAN refuse to fly (is in the AIP) but it look to me that the industry made a move where if you do refuse an unsafe fly, you also end up pumping gas for the rest of you life...
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Post by raven54 »

I love flying as well. But to say "I'm never truly bored in an airplane," yeah right, my call is.....bullshit!! Buzzing along boring holes in the night for a 3.5hr leg when the only thing to do is change vor freqs, awesome times!! Can get just a bit boring. But the awesome flights outweigh the boring ones so that's why i'm still here.
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Federally
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Post by Federally »

Remember when you were young and the first time you asked (or were asked) to see the cockpit? Remember how amazing it looked and then how much more amazing it looked when your Mom or whoever lifted you up so that you could actually see out of the plane? Well I'm guessing nobody could have knocked the smile off your face when you walked back to your seat....since I was little I always wanted to fly, I can't help but think of the kids that will never see the inside of a cockpit now that we are post 9-11. And therefore they might never have a spark to dream to fly and end up chasing some other career. So that spark of interest lost is that worse than the Flightschools, Colleges, etc filling people with false promises? Or is it worse that while Canada might be one of the 'best' places to live it might just as well be one of the worst places to persue a dream to be a pilot. I've had many friends move on and I have had thoughts of moving on over the last year.
I hope that everyone who still has hope in their dream reads Shakedown's post one more time. Thanks Shakedown for the post that will always stick in my mind.
(sorry for the long post)
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Post by SplitS »

Federally must be a true canadian - he apologizes for posting!!

Shankdown, good post. 27 flying a lear? Nice.

Funny thing reading this thread - wonder who here would have different opinions 1 year from now? Things change so fast in aviation...
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Post by Main Gear »

You are 100% right, it's nice to see people that make it, but the reality is that most of the pilots do not make it!!!! I know a guy that droped out a King Air captain position because was tired to borrow money from his parents, now he works in costruction and makes a fortune compare of what he was making before, when he miss flying he rents an airplane...
To me it seems that there is a co-relation between pay and success in aviation. Pilots who complain about the pay seem to be in the industry for the wrong reasons and likely less successful in advancement. My bet is that with the majority of successful career pilots, money isn't the issue. There are a lot more crappy jobs out there that pay wosre. No matter what career you choose, rookies take crap, get paid crap, it all sums up to experience and chararcter building. GET into aviation because you are passionate for it. What dollar figure can you put on sitting up front and popping out on top, carefree, soaring like a bird, or the sight of those lead in lights down to minimums, besides the fact you just got a family safe to their vacation, flew mail across the country or maybe saved someones life??? Just like I thought, no dollar amount. Why do people go to university for five years to become a teacher? The money isn't that great. Or do construction 12 hours a day, coming home all sore. My bet is that they like the work. If you climb into an airplane and consider it a job, turn around, walk off the ramp, drop of your pass and quit while you're ahead. Don't get into aviation for the fame, and certainly not for the fortune. This is not the aviation of 20 years ago. With rising expenses for the airlines, and fuel through the roof, and passengers expecting a bus fare, pilots salaries are taking a hit and airlines profits erased. If fares aren't adjusted for inflation and fuel, there won't be aviation. All airlines should collaborately adjust fares so everybody makes money and not offer a charity service. There's enough business for everybody. Hell, it's cheaper to fly across the country then on train or bus.

Hey, but this is just my $0.02.
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Post by raven54 »

I don't know know about you guys, but I got into the aviation thing because I like flying, and to make a living. The purpose of any career is to make a living, feeling good about all the pretty scenery doesn't go very far in the ol' bank account. If you're taking people on their vacations or saving lives the money should reflect the responsibility. Being comfortable with crap pay and being taken advantage of is not a good thing.
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simo
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Post by simo »

Hi Shankdown, i am glad for you that you got what you wanted but there are lots of people that worked double you and didn't go anywhere.

Me as an example, i was a Md80 pilot and payd 0$ a month(but i got paid the hotel and milage for my car) and after 2 years they decided to make me work half time becouse there were 12 new pilots that wanted to pay the type rating and fly 50Hrs on it.

I quit when they told me that.

I have been in aviation for 9 years so far and NEVER got paid for it expet the expenses.

I know a friend of mine who's father was a captain in Alitalia and we were in the same college and this year he become a 777 captain.

I guess life is all about luck!!

This is the same for everyone and for every jobs.

I have the numbers to be a MD80 copilot and the only job offer i found is instructing....

That's my opportunity and so no money again...

There are x number of planes and y number of pilots.
If y is lower then x, for sure someone stays at home....

All depends which number you are and where you are.

The real problem is that there are lots of people around.
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Jaques Strappe
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Post by Jaques Strappe »

Simo

Respectfully, flying an MD80 for free seems like a big mistake.
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Post by JigglyBus »

Ah, the CAUSE of the problem.

If you and you're coworkers are willing to do it for free, what makes you think that you'll ever be paid for it????

In your ignorance, you are the CAUSE of scores of pilots being underremunerated, or worse yet completely unremunerated.

Pilot who work for free, or pay to work, are not VICTIMS, they are CULPRITS.
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short bus
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Post by short bus »

You flew an MD80 for 9 years without getting paid?

I'm very sorry but that qualifies you as an idiot, at the very least you should get a Darwin nomination.

The fact you would work without pay for that long speaks volumes about your character and self-worth, not to mention a serious lack of self-respect.
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shankdown
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Post by shankdown »

Desksgo... have you ever seen the movie Dumb & Dumber? Don't get me wrong, I'm not calling you dumb. I just want to know if you remember the scene at the very end of the movie, just after the bus full of bikini models pulled over to ask them if they knew where they could find oil boys for their tour? They pointed to the next town and advised the ladies they could find a couple of guys there. When the bus pulled away, one said to the other, "Geez, two lucky guys are in for a treat. Oh well, we'll catch our break soon." When you said you wouldn't bet anything that you'll get your break before you hit 30, you reminded me of those guys. Be careful! Ever heard of a 'self-fulfilling prophecy'? That also reminded me of another story that should serve as some inspiration:

A while back I was chatting with my sister's boss. The guy is into manufacturing office furniture, and makes more money at it than I could ever dream of making. Well, he started out building noise dampening boxes for those old dot matrix printers that made a huge racket while they did their thing. With his design, there could be an office full of them, and people could carry on normal conversations because the boxes kept the printers quiet. One day, he was over in Japan on a sales trip, and happened to stop by one of his contacts in the printer manufacturing business. The guy almost immediately asked him, "Do you have any other business, or are these boxes it for you?" To which he advised him that no, he had no other part of his company. The man took him into a massive warehouse, packed floor to ceiling with boxes and said, "All these boxes are full of a new kind of printer, called 'bubblejet' printers. They don't make a sound. They'll be flooding the North American market in six months." With that tip, the young man started manufacturing office furniture, and has never looked back. If he wasn't out selling his product, and meeting the people that were in the business, he woulda been dead in the water. But with that little tip, he masterminded a multi-million dollar business, and kept up with the industry. My point?

You gotta be out there selling yourself. Get out and mingle with the people. MAKE YOUR OWN BREAKS!!! Don't expect anyone to call you up while you're sitting on your couch eating cheetos and moping about how you're never going to catch your break... It won't happen. But when you're out in the circle, things just start happening. Figure out what jobs will give you the lifestyle you want, and then start contacting them. I'm not into giving a lesson on job hunting cause I ain't not job hunting Gretzy, but geez! Don't always take a job because its offered to you! Make sure its the right one. Unless you're flying for yourself, and running your own show, its never going to be all roses.

You say I'm 1 in 1000? Nope. Not even close. The three guys I ride my motorcycle with are all pilots. They are all doing well enough to have some nice machines and keep them insured. Everyone at my company that I work with owns their own house... one of em owns it outright. There is one guy, however, who is waiting to buy his cash in a few years, but meanwhile is driving around in a convertible BMW, has a wicked motorbike in the garage, and a jetboat sitting by the Columbia River. His money came from investing his wages as his 'hobby'. Virtually all the pilots I know are doing ok. They may not be rich, but they're doing ok.

So if you wanna sit around moping 'woe is me', do it. But don't try to bring the new guys down with it. Ask anyone at Air Canada if they're glad they stuck with the hard times (and they all saw hard times in one way or another), 99% of them will say yes. You're only part way through the journey. Whenever I go out for a run I have a hard time running as far as I want to because it hurts. But I always stick with it, and I feel awesome when I get through it.

But I'll tell you, I planted a bug in the ear of the largest office furniture manufacturers ear in Western Canada about opening up a corporate flight department with his planned expansion to the US. In the unlikely event he wants one, guess who is gonna get the call? That's right ;) ... you know the answer! Why? Because I started creating a break for myself right while I was enjoying the job I'm in.

That's enough of a lashing. If you wanna fly, boys, do it. Just freakin' GIVE ER!!!

Bailamos, Shankdown ;)

ps. Sorry for always writing so much.
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desksgo
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Post by desksgo »

shankdown wrote: You gotta be out there selling yourself. Get out and mingle with the people. MAKE YOUR OWN BREAKS!!! Don't expect anyone to call you up while you're sitting on your couch eating cheetos and moping about how you're never going to catch your break... It won't happen.
I get the slightest hint that you're trying to talk down to me, but I am not 100% sure, so no issue. I think you may get the impression that I am some dumb shit pilot sitting in his parent's basement in Southwestern Ontario waiting for Air Canada to call. Not so, old boy.

I feel your words won't fall on deaf ears though , as some schmuck in his parent's basement, may just take heed to your advice. And good on you, for that. But, to me, it's like telling a football player to make sure he prays real hard the night before the super bowl. What if both teams pray and work really hard, do both win? NO, there will always be winners and losers, regardless of how hard someone works. So try not to put down the many great people that I know who failed to capture their aviation dreams by saying we don't make our own breaks. They didn't catch the breaks, and it broke them.

And I stand by what I say, you are 1 in 1000. Just because you ride bikes with pilots, doesn't mean there aren't 1000+ other guys sitting in nowhere right now who didn't work for their break.

I think you make a lot of incredible points, and say some great things about the business that I love. Just don't walk on the beaches of Normandy on D-Day and say the fallen ones didn't work just as hard as you did. Some catch that unlucky bullet, and some don't. Some do foolish things, others, just rotten luck. That's the way life works.

In the end, I will say I have a lot of respect for you and hope the sky is the limit as far as your career goes. And if that ever fell through, you'd make a terrific motivational speaker; just know thy audience.

Ps. I'm not leaving Aviation, I've got more invested in this little venture than most :wink: Why sink it on that golden pilot job?
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Post by Pat Richard »

Although Im not a pilot, I've worked with many being an AME. I can't say I've ever seen any of them loaded up with so many toys as shankdown describes.
I know many, that may have a bike, or decent car, or decent accomadations, and that usually is all the monthly payment they can spare. I know many oldtimers(pilots and AME's) who's daily transportation is barely capable of completing the roundtrip back and forth to the trailer where they live. Not very impressive after spending many years being in aviation.

Personally, I have a BMW, but it was bought as a writeoff and was repaired by myself. No way in hell would I'd be able to afford one otherwise with what aviation pays, and it required some slashing of activities to complete as it was.

I guess if you don't mind waiting/hoping for your dream to happen, as the years roll on, good on you. For me, reflecting on what I've been through, and what I've seen,(much of what ludacris wrote rang true for me also) it just isn't worth it.
Maybe it's just an maintenance perspective, because obviously wrenching never has the fun factor associated with flying. Its generally nastier work with worse hours, so it invites a more negative bias.
Eitherway, here's one AME who's happy he's done with aviation.


Pat :wink:
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