Our best take off briefings.

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Beefitarian
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Our best take off briefings.

Post by Beefitarian »

This will be a normal take off.
I will be lined up on the numbers and stopping in position briefly. I will set the direction finder.
I will throttle up to full. I will glance at the gauges to ensure oil pressure and temperature look ok. Listening to the engine and noting the RPM increased to about 2500.
I will fully release the brakes. Holding the centerline with the rudder.
I wil be looking ahead noting the airspeed indicator is increased at some point.
When the plane is ready to lift off I will allow it then position the nose to where I think it will climb at 70 knots. I'll glance to check and adjust slightly if it's more or less.
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photofly
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Re: Our best take off briefings.

Post by photofly »

My takeoff briefings concentrate on what I'll do if things don't go according to plan, i.e. the things I never get to practice actually doing and don't have time to think through if they happen:

Eg:

This will be a regular takeoff with rotation at 55KIAS.
Engine failure in the roll: abort ahead;
Not airborne by Charlie: abort ahead;
Engine failure just airborne: land ahead (in runway or water as available)
Engine failure below 400 agl: I'm putting it down on the beach to the left
Engine failure after 400 agl: left turn to land on 33
etc
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Big Pistons Forever
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Re: Our best take off briefings.

Post by Big Pistons Forever »

My 02 cents.

This is what I teach

How you fly the takeoff is an SOP and SOP's should not be IMO be briefed unless you intend to deviate from them.

So for a C 172 N/P the SOP for a normal takeoff is Full Power, Good Engine call, slow back pressure at 50 knots so the nose is raised to the takeoff attitude and the airplane flies off when it is ready (60 -65 knots) Vy (76 kts) attitude is establish and held to 1000 feet AGL while tracking the runway centerline until crosswind/on course turn is made. At 1000 feet the airspeed is increased to that speed that will give a 500 feet/min climb.

Note the "Good Engine" call is made as soon as the throttle is full in and consists of verifying static RPM is present 2300-2420 RPM and engine oil pressure/oil temp in the green. Failure to achieve static RPM or oil temp/pressure anomalies will result in an automatic low speed takeoff abort.

The "Take off Briefing" consist of the immediate actions you must perform in the event of a problem before you reach 1000 feet AGL. For almost every situation the best thing to do is sit on your hand and count to ten before doing anything. The big exception is takeoff emergencies. For these you have to perform the correct actions immediately or you are in big trouble. Therefore my brief reviews those actions before every takeoff during ab initio training. The idea is that after practicing these actions 40 or 50 times they will be cemented in your brain, especially if the controls are physically touched/moved as they are called out and thus become muscle memory

So my take off brief is as follows:

In the even of a malfunction effecting flight safety prior to lift off I will:

-Retard the throttle to idle
-Apply maximum braking
-Select Flaps up
-Mixture to ICO
-Mags Off

In the event of an engine failure or fire after lift off and below 1000 feet AGL I will"

-Push forward on the wheel and establish a 65 kt glide
-fly straight ahead turning only to avoid large obstacles
-Fuel to off
-Mixture ICO
-Mags Off
-Flaps as require
-Master off

If I have already turned crosswind I will turn to the nearest flat part of the airport.
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DonutHole
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Re: Our best take off briefings.

Post by DonutHole »

I find the best takeoff briefings are the ones that you have actually thought about

no shit I had a guy brief me that an engine failure above 500 feet would result in a water ditching straight ahead when not 100 yards to the left of the runway was a beautifully unobstructed fairway to hole nine.
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triplese7en
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Re: Our best take off briefings.

Post by triplese7en »

As BPF said, there is no need to brief SOP. I would argue that turning the mags off isn't a safety concern and I wouldn't be worried about that with a low altitude failure, but it is a small thing.

As Donuthole mentions, you should actually think about what you're saying... preferably before you even get in the airplane. During your flight planning you should have thought about emergencies and contingencies. A topographical map is very useful in determining where you'll land if you have an engine failure. The view from 0 feet AGL, while holding short and doing your takeoff briefing, doesn't give you a good perspective of the surrounding area.
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Big Pistons Forever
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Re: Our best take off briefings.

Post by Big Pistons Forever »

triplese7en wrote:As BPF said, there is no need to brief SOP. I would argue that turning the mags off isn't a safety concern and I wouldn't be worried about that with a low altitude failure,
It is if the engine is on fire.
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esp803

Re: Our best take off briefings.

Post by esp803 »

When I was in a two crew position:

"This will be a 14,500lbs departure, bugs set at 80-99-102. Call me Airspeed alive, 80kts, v1, rotate. Anything below 80kts we will reject, between 80 and v1 we will reject for an engine failure,fire or loss of control, after V1 it will be considered an inflight emergency. Departure as per the Cap. Questions?"

Since I have not been in a two crew position for a little while, it's now more pondering where I will land if the stove stops at the worse possible time.

E
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triplese7en
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Re: Our best take off briefings.

Post by triplese7en »

Big Pistons Forever wrote:
triplese7en wrote:As BPF said, there is no need to brief SOP. I would argue that turning the mags off isn't a safety concern and I wouldn't be worried about that with a low altitude failure,
It is if the engine is on fire.
Yup, good point.
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Post by Beefitarian »

This thread is already terrific. Thanks guys keep them coming.

As for this.
DonutHole wrote: no shit I had a guy brief me that an engine failure above 500 feet would result in a water ditching straight ahead when not 100 yards to the left of the runway was a beautifully unobstructed fairway to hole nine.
That's crazy scary yet.. It's comedy awesome like one of those women that got breast implants, then decided to try to set a record for the largest ones.
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AuxBatOn
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Re: Our best take off briefings.

Post by AuxBatOn »

SOP is my take off brief. Best one ever.
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Post by Beefitarian »

Nothing in my life is "standard."

I'm not saying flying by yourself requires a take off briefing. I certainly understand doing one to maintain consistency if you usually fly with two crew. Kind of like thinking or saying,"gear down and locked." Even though you're in a fixed gear plane.

Kind of silly yet it keeps you thinking about checking to ensure the gear is down before you land.
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Re: Our best take off briefings.

Post by photofly »

Big Pistons Forever wrote:
triplese7en wrote:As BPF said, there is no need to brief SOP. I would argue that turning the mags off isn't a safety concern and I wouldn't be worried about that with a low altitude failure,
It is if the engine is on fire.
colour me stupid, but if there's an uncontained fire, why would turning the mags off make any difference? Fuel selector and mixture, sure, but mags?

In fact, leaving the mags on will burn as much fuel as possible inside the cylinders, rather than pumping it unburnt out of the exhaust manifold which has opportunities to feed a fire under the cowl. No?
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Re: Our best take off briefings.

Post by Colonel Sanders »

my take off brief
Normal:
- Knobs forward
- Aim at white puffy things in the sky

Aerobatic:
- Half-roll inverted at 80 mph
- Push through vertical at end of runway

Utility:
- Slam bulging doors shut
- Enter ground effect at end of runway
- Laterally avoid obstacles (Jim Croce's pecan tree)

Major Golf Tournament Weekend
- Grip it
- Rip it
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Re: Our best take off briefings.

Post by jump154 »

My worst takeoff briefing: G-ZZZZ leaving the circuit....


which then makes me paranoid about what else I forgot.
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Re: Our best take off briefings.

Post by Big Pistons Forever »

photofly wrote:
Big Pistons Forever wrote:
triplese7en wrote:As BPF said, there is no need to brief SOP. I would argue that turning the mags off isn't a safety concern and I wouldn't be worried about that with a low altitude failure,
It is if the engine is on fire.
colour me stupid, but if there's an uncontained fire, why would turning the mags off make any difference? Fuel selector and mixture, sure, but mags?

In fact, leaving the mags on will burn as much fuel as possible inside the cylinders, rather than pumping it unburnt out of the exhaust manifold which has opportunities to feed a fire under the cowl. No?
It would seem prudent to me that in the case of an engine fire right after takeoff which will almost certainly be of unknown origin, that all the fuel and electrical services in the engine compartment be turned off. Since turning the Mags to Off takes about half a second it seems to me to be a reasonable action along with turning off the fuel and placing the mixture control to Idle Cut Off.

The thread title is "take off briefings" which I provided, however I should probably elaborate with a bit of context. First this briefing is for PPL students and low hour new PPL's flying C 172's and is designed to make sure that they develop the automatic reactions necessary to safely deal with the engine failure during/after takeoff emergency. I think if you went into the local flying school and said what do you do if the engine fails right after takeoff you would get a lot of deer in the headlight looks and hear a lot of UMMs and Errr's. My students will be able to, without hesitating, tell you everything they need to do because they will have done the brief so many times including physically moving the control wheel forward when they call for establishing the 65 kt glide and then touching every control as they call them out, it is stuck in their brain.

Secondly I emphasize that the most important part of the brief is establishing the glide attitude and keeping the aircraft under control. If there is time to complete the rest of the actions then they get them done, but only if it doing so won't comprise aircraft control.

The intent of this post is not to say "do it this way or you are wrong" but simply to provide one approach to the issue and contribute to the discussion

BTW I have had a few people tell me they think that briefing the actions for a problem before lift off is a bit over the top. Maybe but I have personal knowledge of one unnecessarily wrecked aircraft by failing to do the actions in the right order.

The scenario is as follows. The guy was doing a take off at a shortish field going through about 45 kts the engine quit cold. The pilot stomped on the brakes and the aircraft pitched forward and started to slow but then the engine roared back to life at full power. Startled the pilot released the brakes the engine ran for a few seconds and then quit cold again. Same deal the engine restarted as soon as the aircraft pitched forward under braking but this time he retarded the throttle and stayed on the brakes. Unfortunately the runway wasted with the engine starts and stops meant there was not enough left to stop and the aircraft went off the end of the runway fell into a ditch and broke its back. The pilot sustained significant facial injuries as he was not wearing the shoulder belt. I like to think if it had been one of my students in this situation this would have been a non event because the first action "in the event of a malfunction effecting flight safety" is to retard the throttle to idle.
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Post by Beefitarian »

I agree with the burning the fuel in the cylinders instead of outside the engine.

What if, your 172 stops running because the carburetor float valve stuck. When you land fairly uneventfully the touchdown bumps the valve open. You get out of the plane completely unharmed. You walk to the propeller and push it for no real reason. You just did a real forced approach, adrenaline is pumping, you do a couple of weird things. The engine starts and you are hit by the prop.

Do you wish you grounded out the magnetos then?
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Re: Our best take off briefings.

Post by photofly »

To be fair to all, it's always possible to come up with some scenario where having taken the normally-sensible actions turns out to have been wrong under the circumstances.
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Post by Beefitarian »

Certainly. Flying should be a process also. I might get distracted and brief the water ditch landing.

If I'm in the air and lose power, then spot that golf green I might be asking you to yell "FORE!" out your window to warn the golfers we're dropping in.
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Re: Our best take off briefings.

Post by jump154 »

My normal 168 hour PPL takeoff briefing:

[Normal/Short/Soft] takeoff
Full power will be established by [numbers, first taxiway etc.]
Airborne by [taxiway/terminal]

If these are not achieved, throttle to zero and stop on runway.

Engine failure on take-off, pitch forward and land striaght ahead on runway
Engine Failue below 1000', pitch forward and land straight ahead in [suitable field/specific field if I know the airport]
Engine Failure 1000' or above, return to land at airport if safe to do so.

Barring that, I'll continue my flight to the [wherever I'm going]


That got me a commendation from my DFTE at my flight test, and on a flight review at a flight school a comment of "Well, that answered my emergency action questions!"

I've had other Instructors suggest different versions (such as rotation speed, climb out speed, departure procedures etc.) but I think of them as SOPs and not for the brief. If I'm flying a different A/C type to usual, I'll have gone over rotation speeds, static RPM etc. before I get in the A/C.

I like to think of the takeoff brief as moving emergency actions from long term memory to short term so if something bad happens the response is automatic rather than "hmm, I know what to do here, what is it?"
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Post by Beefitarian »

Even though I back talked him I agree with Aux.
AuxBatOn wrote:SOP is my take off brief. Best one ever.
I'm thinking many things and checking gauges, sights, sounds and smells, sometimes vocalizing this process becomes a disaster.

Also Aux has the advantage of flying daily with no time to dilly dally using up fuel.

That one is excellent Jump, short yet complete. That's the sort of brief I'm here to steal.
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