Is flight training declining

[rotorspeed]

Ive been by czbb (boundary bay airport) in the last few days and have driven by in the last few weeks a couple of times and it seemed to be really slow compared to the past. Is flight training on the decline in general?

[KAG]

Someone told me there was only 200 CPL handed out last year Canada wide.
Schools closing, small airports being sold, rental prices out of control - yeah I'd say
Things are slowing.

[trey kule]

That is a really low number. It is beyond my ability, but someone who is savvy can probably provide a link to the license stats..

Or....it might mean that they have now lowered the bar on the ATPL so low, pilots can go right from a private to an ATPL and skip the whole bothersome CPL business

[Beefitarian]

There was once 4 or 5 schools at Calgary YYC another 4 at Calgary/Springbank YBW then one in Okatoks and one in Highriver.

Now there is 2 or 3 in YBW one in Okatoks and one in Olds. Zero at YYC.

[Shiny Side Up]

edit: nvm, old TC link to stats page is broken. They must have it somewhere...

[mbav8r]

http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviation/o ... s-1513.htm
01/04/2011 TO 31/03/2012
12.3 - Airline transport pilot licence -185
12.9Flight crew rating initial issue -3,232(as far as I can tell, this covers everything from ultra light to balloons)
12.12 - Foreign licence validation -200
http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviation/o ... s-1516.htm
01/04/2011 TO 31/03/2012
12.3 ‑ Airline transport
pilot licence -154
12.9 ‑ Flight crew
rating initial issue -2,658
12.12 ‑ Foreign licence
validation -142

[wirez]

Lots of the Canadian licenses are also issued to foreign students that don't intend to work in Canada.

[Shiny Side Up]

There was once 4 or 5 schools at Calgary YYC another 4 at Calgary/Springbank YBW then one in Okatoks and one in Highriver.

Now there is 2 or 3 in YBW one in Okatoks and one in Olds. Zero at YYC.

The number of schools isn't quite an indication about the numbers of students though. For instance, some of the schools at Springbank were actually part of the schools that were at Calgary. The school that was at High River, was originally at CYYC, but merged with the school that was at high river previously to form a larger school. Besides the two long term residents at CYBW, Mount Royal (which used to have its own airfield where part of the campus is now) and The Calgary Flying Club (which used to be out of CYYC a long, LONG time ago), the other schools have constantly shifted, changed hands, and somewhat have had the some of the staff cycle around them. At one time about 5 years ago I think there was a total of seven schools there (nine if you include the helicopter schools). From what I see, it seems CFC sort of aquired Fly Right's assets (Fly Right seems to primarily manage other people's aircraft now), Springbank Air Training College grew and aquired some of MRC's old assets (I think they have a fleet of nine aircraft now? It wasn't long ago when they had only three), and Springbank Aero's current incarnation (I have a hat from renting the Citabria there a long time ago when it was Southern Aero).

If one probably tallies up the ammount of aircraft engaged in flight training in the area, one would probably find that there has been a slight increase in numbers over say the last 5 years. If that's any indication, then I don't think flight training is dead.

[Beefitarian]

I forgot to consider Mount Royal. Being they were the college and so much more expensive they were not an option for me. Helicopters like wise. I remember talking with a helicopter instructor out at Okatoks possibly 1988?

I wasn't suggesting we take off our hats for a moment of reflexion. Just that there are noticeably fewer units.

Did SATC get those newer 172s? I remember them stopping at Cut Bank while we were there for Montana Fun Weekend two years ago.

[Shiny Side Up]

They took two of MRC's old 172s and looks like they bought a new 182. Must be something going on to fund a ship like that.

[Beefitarian]

The peacock lease units then? Not the fancy glass cockpit ones MRU bought in August 2011. Nice to see them doing well... I think.

[Sidebar]

go right from a private to an ATPL

That's what I did. In between I flew 6000 hours on military transports.

[Beaver2509]

From what I see, it seems CFC sort of aquired Fly Right's assets (Fly Right seems to primarily manage other people's aircraft now),

CFC Bought the Seminole MMT but Flyright still owns the two 172's, YEH and WMB.

[Shiny Side Up]

Haven't heard either of them out and about lately. Also Flyright no longer has a website for flight training. Those airplanes aren't up for sale by chance?

[Beefitarian]

I'd like to start the bidding at $900.

[CpnCrunch]

The guy I was flying with last week did some recurrency with flyright recently, so I'm pretty sure they're still around.

[trey kule]

who is, (or was ) the CFI at Flyright?

[Big Pistons Forever]

I have belonged to the same flying club for 34 years. When I joined the club as a low hour renter pilot my impression was that the majority of the flying hours were rental or PPL training for recreational pilots and that a relatively small amount of the annual total flying hours were for people learning to fly with the aspiration of becoming a working commercial pilot.

Today over 80 % of the club hours are training and the majority of the student pilots are doing it because they want a career as a pilot.

My impression is that recreational flying has been steadily decreasing over the last 20 years and pretty soon we will be like GA in Europe. Flying training will be concentrated at a few large establishments which are designed to pump out CPL's and recreational flying will be a small rump primarily consisting of those with serious money or the true aviation fanatics who are willing to make significant personal sacrifices to feed their addiction.

[Shiny Side Up]

I have seen a different shift BPF, and maybe that's just due to being in a different neck of the woods. On the whole, recreational flying has been steadily increasing over the last say ten years. Its a very shifting beast though. Its like a fragile plant, it doesn't seem like it takes much to kill it in places, but its probably always growing somewhere. Its always under pressure, one shift in it has been that it seems to be more everyman for himself, these guys are their own worst enemies, partly though because of the shift in technology. People don't have to group up anymore to get their airplane fix.

Alberta of course is a prime ground for GA, since there's lots of money around, the biggest driver behind it. If an area has a decline in disposable income, GA in that area shrinks appropriately.

Career flying has taken a definite, and probably irreversible shift. The primary focus everywhere of training international students in this regard has pressured out any domestic career students. Local career students seem to be decreasing, less interest in doing it, plus the costs. The fact that a lot of training resourses are tied up with international students, discourages many, because there are fewer big schools that cater to domestics. This is going to have long term consequences I feel that is really going to hit the Canadian training world hard in the near future.

[AirFrame]

Ive been by czbb (boundary bay airport) in the last few days and have driven by in the last few weeks a couple of times and it seemed to be really slow compared to the past. Is flight training on the decline in general?

Boundary Bay may not be the best yardstick to measure with. Ever since they closed the south practise area, Boundary Bay has been a great place to guarantee that you'll take 50% longer to get your PPL. On every flight, you have to fly for 10-15 minutes just to get to a practise area. And then you have to come back, too. Every pilot I know, even those who learned at ZBB, will tell someone who asks that they should choose an airport closer to the practise area. Pitt, Langley, Abbotsford, whatever is closer to their place of residence.

Once you're on the commercial track and doing things like flying approaches back and forth to Abbotsford maybe it makes more sense... But if you start somewhere else to save money on the PPL, there's little reason to switch to ZBB for anything else... You'll already have the relationship developed with another school by that point.

[rotorspeed]

airframe, where was the south practice area I havent flown out of czbb in a while?

[Old Dog Flying]

CYA(T)125 used to be East of the Trestle to 176 St and from White Rock up to the Fraser Highway. It was an extremely busy spot for a lot of years until Blunder Bay opened. The term "South" practise area was in relation to Pitt Meadows..the centre of the aviation universe for a few years.

Barney