Hand-flying the ILS

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Colonel Sanders
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Hand-flying the ILS

Post by Colonel Sanders »

Again, if you have over 500TT, don't bother reading this.

Did a couple of IFR training flights yesterday (one
day, one night) and did a bunch of hand-flown ILS's,
which is what you have to do when you don't have
an APR button :wink:

Just wanted to pass on a few points.

It's convenient to set up your GPS (either VFR or IFR)
to the airport as a waypoint, so that you have a sorta-
DME to held with the situational awareness.

But probably more important than that, is the instantaneous
track value from the GPS.

When you are flying the procedure turn, glance at the GPS
track to see if there is a crosswind you should be correcting
for. Bonus points for looking at the groundspeed, and using
it to correct for headwind/tailwind.

Before you turn inbound on the PT, I like to see full-scale
deflection of the LOC, which means we have time to turn
and intercept it. Also make sure the GS needle is up there.

Try to intercept the LOC far enough out, that the GS needle
is still up there when you do. See using GPS as DME. Having
both needles centering at the same time is doable but sporty.

Ok, so you intercept the LOC. Needle is centered. Before it
has a chance to move, look at the GPS track and immediately
alter your heading so that it is the same as the final approach
track. If you do this, the LOC needle will stay centered the
whole way down. Of course, the winds may change a bit in
the descent - feel the bumps - but glance at the GPS track
to re-confirm your heading.

I really like doing ILS's at high speed, and hand-flying down
to CAT II minima (100 AGL) because I figure that if you can
hand-fly it when it's difficult, you're going to find it easy when
you do it normally. Also, at large airports, you're going to fit
into the traffic flow at LOT better at 100 or 110 knots on the
ILS, than 70 knots. It is worthwhile practicing the ILS at 150
knots, IMHO. I know I am not a good person, but I like to fly
piston/prop fast enough into large airports that ATC is slowing
me down for the kerosene burners ahead of me :mrgreen:

The ILS gets a lot more sensitive below 500 AGL because the
cones are really narrowing - esp the GS. People only take it
down to 200 AGL DH but I like to take it down to at least 100
AGL, and if possible, arrange for the candidate to land under
the hood. Good practice.

It's easy to overcontrol on the ILS below 500 AGL. One trick
I tell people, is to use rudders to make 2 degree heading
changes at low altitude on the ILS to avoid overcontrolling
on heading, swooping back and forth with excessive angles
of bank.

If you can, fly a PAR or GCA or whatever the kids are calling
them these days. It is a humbling experience, to have an ATC
on the ground tell you how an ILS ought to be flown.

Hope this helps! May your needles always be in the donuts :wink:

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lostaviator
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Re: Hand-flying the ILS

Post by lostaviator »

Call me a complete a$$ but when I am flying with a new FO who asks me to OBS the runway for them on the GPS for an ILS; I turn the GPS off. You can do that after you demonstrate being able to fly an ILS with the instrument meant to be used for ILS's.
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Colonel Sanders
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Re: Hand-flying the ILS

Post by Colonel Sanders »

when I am flying with a new FO
Congratulations on making left seat with less than 500TT!
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Chuck Ellsworth
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Re: Hand-flying the ILS

Post by Chuck Ellsworth »

Call me a complete a$$ but when I am flying with a new FO who asks me to OBS the runway for them on the GPS for an ILS; I turn the GPS off. You can do that after you demonstrate being able to fly an ILS with the instrument meant to be used for ILS's.
I had to give my right hand man a little lecture a few days ago.
Interesting lostaviator , what do you call your FO if the FO is a woman?
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trey kule
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Re: Hand-flying the ILS

Post by trey kule »

Cat....I think you have more than 500 hrs. Did you stop reading the OP?
I did. And because this is Avcanada the fact that I did not finish reading the OP plays no part in my posting,

My comments are to lost aviator. Your post would leave one with the impression you are the captain. Exactly when did it become the Captains job on a flight to require an FO to demonstrate anything other than what their job requires? That is the job of the company training department, line check pilots, and the responsibility of the CP's office,
You have no business on a non dedicated training flight turning anything off that your FO (PF) asks for.
You are not an authorized line check pilot, and although I can't speak for your company, our line check pilots do not pull this kind of silly type of thing on an operational approach.
Any Captain in our company who unilaterally decided to check the competency of their FO by turning off a navigation instrument during an approach, would, at the very least , have the pleasure of a little chat with the CP...
Seems like you really don't understand what a Captain's job is. I am hoping your FO reads Avcanada and mentions your little test to the right people in your company.


Wish I was not banned from reading the entire original post. Might have been able to make a relevant comment
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200hr Wonder
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Re: Hand-flying the ILS

Post by 200hr Wonder »

Well put trey kule

As a line captain your job is to ensure the PF is doing their job. Intact I encourage FOs to always tune and set all nav aids even if you don't plan on using them and it is clear and a million. Turning off a nav aid online is just silly. Your sole job as a line captain at that is to provide a safe smooth flight to the people in the back paying for it.

After not reading the post I like to practice on a clear day flying the ILS a dot high in case you are following something heavy to ensure you do not end up in his wake. More important in a low wind day!
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Cat Driver
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Re: Hand-flying the ILS

Post by Cat Driver »

Turning off a nav aid online is just silly.
That must be why that poster is called lostaviator. :smt040
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triplese7en
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Re: Hand-flying the ILS

Post by triplese7en »

Well put, trey.

I had a Captain turn off the GPS on a VFR day because he wanted to navigate visually to the destination, 15 minutes away. He didn't have any problem finding the airport but I believe it's wrong in principle.

How far would you go with turning stuff off while on an operational flight? I'm sure it's also good to practice partial panel in the event that you lose an important instrument - would you cover up your AI on an ILS in IMC? Turning off nav aids during flight decreases the SA of both crew members. It is not appropriate in an operational environment.

On a different topic - we have an altitude alert system that is common across all our fleet. There is one plane that has two altitude alerters. I personally don't think it should be set but I have Captains that want it set all the time. I've stopped short of asking them what they'd do if there were three altitude alerters in the airplane! :rolleyes:
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cj555
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Re: Hand-flying the ILS

Post by cj555 »

Well said trey kule
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Instructor_Mike
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Re: Hand-flying the ILS

Post by Instructor_Mike »

triplese7en wrote:Well put, trey.

I had a Captain turn off the GPS on a VFR day because he wanted to navigate visually to the destination, 15 minutes away. He didn't have any problem finding the airport but I believe it's wrong in principle.
Yes and no. It depends on why it was turned off. If it was turned off just for fun, I agree with you. Most of the time I'll put it to the menu screen and one quick button push I can double check without the delay of it needing to require satellites.

Then again, I'm an instructor teaching VFR so I enforce looking outside and map reading first, use of GPS much later on when I know they can handle the basics :-)
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aV1aTOr
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Re: Hand-flying the ILS

Post by aV1aTOr »

Colonel Sanders wrote:
when I am flying with a new FO
Congratulations on making left seat with less than 500TT!
LOL :lol:
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