Commercial pilots - Closing flight plan while airborne

[corytrevor]

Would any of you anal rocket scientists please tell me why offering extra information (that takes 2 seconds to say) is a bad thing? I couldn't even begin to list all of the incorrect radio calls and procedures I see every day.

[lostaviator]

When a controller clears me enroute and they are my last point of contact before I am in uncontrolled, I say "continue company note". Three words and it saves all the other radio garbage. If I say "cancel ifr" 30% of the time the controller will come back and say "check cancelling IFR. What about alerting". To which I would reply "cancel that as well.

I am sure somewhere there is a right answer but who cares as long as we understand one another. I have had multiple controlled clear me for a contact approach even though I haven't requested it. Am I going to write NavCan, start a thread on avcanada and complain about it? No.

ps. +1 to the anal rocket comment above.

[Maynard]

I couldn't even begin to list all of the incorrect radio calls and procedures I see every day.

My what good eyes you have!!

[parrot_head]

Good idea. Just keep doing it wrong.

I will.

404.2 If an aircraft informs you that it is cancelling IFR:

A. acknowledge the cancellation
B. ask the aircraft if it is closing the IFR flight plan or flight itinerary; and
1.if the aircraft confirms closing the flight plan advise the aircraft that alerting service is terminated; or
2. if the aircraft informs you that it is cancelling IFR but not closing the flight plan or flight itinerary advise the aircraft that an arrival report is required after landing.

Sorry, just doing my job.

[Parth]

Whether you tell me you are cancelling IFR or closing your flight plan, I'm still going to ask about alerting services.

I know it's very clear in the wording what the difference is. However, why would I risk a potential issue after the fact just because I didn't get clarification from a pilot that may or may not know the exact difference?

[photofly]

And if a pilot says "Cancel IFR, maintain alerting" - is that clear enough for you not to need to ask a further question?

[battery668]

However, why would I risk a potential issue after the fact just because I didn't get clarification from a pilot that may or may not know the exact difference?

Because logic has no place in this discussion, that's why.

I'm going to start a thread on here the next time a controller says "good evening" to me on the radio. Maybe I'll even chastise him/her on frequency rather than just being friendly and saying "good evening" back.

[Parth]

And if a pilot says "Cancel IFR, maintain alerting" - is that clear enough for you not to need to ask a further question?

Yes.

[ahramin]

Good idea. Just keep doing it wrong.

I will.

404.2 If an aircraft informs you that it is cancelling IFR:

A. acknowledge the cancellation
B. ask the aircraft if it is closing the IFR flight plan or flight itinerary; and
1.if the aircraft confirms closing the flight plan advise the aircraft that alerting service is terminated; or
2. if the aircraft informs you that it is cancelling IFR but not closing the flight plan or flight itinerary advise the aircraft that an arrival report is required after landing.

Sorry, just doing my job.

I'm convinced. I didn't realize that ATC didn't understand the terminology either. Guess I'll add it in as well.

[LousyFisherman]

So when I'm flying out of controlled air space and ATC says "radar coverage terminated" (or whatever they say) I'm not supposed to say "Thank you XXXXX" ?



LF

[StratusSmoke]

This all started when NavCanada forbade FSS from accepting flight plan closures while the aircraft was still in flight. Didn't matter if it was VFR or IFR we could not take a closure while still in flight. After much bitching and whining, the twits in YOW decided it would be okay to accept a closure, but only if the pilot stated they were proceeding on a company note/itinerary. Hence this 'company note' verbiage.

Furthermore "cancelling IFR" does NOT transform the plan into a VFR plan, this must be requested. "Cancelling IFR" maintains the alerting on the IFR flight plan.

Due to not all pilots understanding the ramifications of "cancelling" versus "closing", we are required to query the pilot as to his/her intentions to clarify that what they asked for is what they really wanted. Me personally, if the pilot says "close the flight plan" while in flight, I respond with "flight plan closed, alerting service terminated" as closed is pretty darn unambiguous. If the pilot says "cancelling IFR" then I will ask to clarify if they wish alerting service terminated as well. Most times they actually intended to close the plan but once in a while they want it kept open. Some pilots say "cancel IFR, keep the alerting". As this is also straightforward I respond with a plain and simple "roger" and it is up to the pilot to ensure the plan does eventually get closed.

Because old habits die hard, not all ATS personnel handle the close versus cancelling the same. YMMV

[Big Pistons Forever]

-"Centre, its ABC with a request..." If your calling, obviously you have some sort of request

IMO "situational awareness" exists in the context of talking on the radio just like it does for navigating. The important part of talking on the radio is not to mindlessly parrot the book words, it is to engage the brain before the PTT and communicate useful information.

The best way to do that may not necessarily be the book way, or the book may just be wrong. (e.g. placing the your call sign at the end of a transmission when replying to a ATC transmission is the virtually universal industry practice but is wrong according to the book)

IMHO a "request call" falls into the "nice to do" category, and should never be done for something that is a "must do".

I sometimes use "ABC request" as a call if I the frequency is busy and what I want is going to take a bit of air time to explain. Probably half the time the response I get is "ABC stand by". When the guy has some time for what is obviously a lower priority transmission, he will get back to me.

I fail to see how just launching into your request during a busy time tying up the radio which will quite likely result in a "standby" anyway, is preferable.

Obviously if ATC is not busy then you just ask your request directly.

This thread belongs on pprune, a venue which is renown for discussions long on radio pedantry and short on common sense. I have always used the "cancel IFR maintain alerting" call because it is short and unambiguous. How nice to find out that after 20 posts, most dripping with condescension and righteousness about how we were all being bad pilots, it turns out I was doing it right after all