Night Hours, Cheap hour building

[Bell206]

I have a PPL and I am Looking for a way to build about 70hrs night Fixedwing to put towards my rotary wing ATPL. I am looking for any ideas of the cheapest way to do that.

[Ecco]

I have a PPL and I am Looking for a way to build about 70hrs night Fixedwing to put towards my rotary wing ATPL. I am looking for any ideas of the cheapest way to do that.

Cesna 150 , there's some available almost anywhere .. last i've seen was around 76$/hrs. My opinion would be to pay a little more for a fully equiped IFR so you could shoot some aproach and ROUTE all night long..

Good luck ..

[Colonel Sanders]

Get your FAA Private Pilot certificate IAW FAR 61.75
and go south. A 150/152 is much cheaper in the USA.

If you must do it in Canada, look for a private aircraft
that doesn't fly much, and buy dry block time off the
owner. Be careful about the mechanical condition,
check out the cockpit lighting, electrical charging
system, gyros for precession, etc.

[Shiny Side Up]

Technically its probably cheaper to get an instructor rating and then be "night rating" guy for a winter (or summer if you like to deprive yourself of sleep). Going south sounds like a funner option though.

[Colonel Sanders]

Yeah, this is a horrible time of year to be night flying.

A very long time ago, as a young, dumb instructor,
I was doing night ratings during the summer - which
involved staying up very late, because sunset is so
late - and then doing flight instruction early the next
morning. Yuck.

I was exhausted. I remember one morning, doing
circuits with a student. I would kind of doze off
after takeoff, and struggle to wake up on final for
the touch and go landing.

Not smart. And I shudder to think what kind of an
impression I made on the poor student. I suppose
he might have thought my falling asleep on downwind
was a supreme vote of confidence in his abilities. Sure,
let's go with that.

[Shiny Side Up]

Yeah, this is a horrible time of year to be night flying.

Yet people persist on determining that they need those night hours now. I've always been of the opinion that if its the middle of summer and you're a private pilot who's ending up flying at night, you did some poor planning (flight or otherwise) along the way.

Why aren't people asking this question in September? Its like when we see instructors here asking about job prospects in the fall.

[CpnCrunch]

Winter is a pretty bad time for night flying in terms of fog forming a few hours after sunset (at least in Alberta).

[Bell206]

Thanks for the replies and ideas, a private aircraft would sound good, any idea of how to get a hold of one say around vancouver - pemberton area?

I do agree that this may be a bad time of year to get night flying due to daylight hours but I work 6weeks on/off overseas so dont have much of a choice as to which months i can fly. Also I know there are hour building schemes in the US is there anything like that in canada? I would be willing to share the cost of an aircraft with an instructor that would need night time or night/IFR as well. I need about 70hrs night with minimal PIC time and the rest can be under instruction as my foriegn ATPL has nothing to do with Transport canada regs.

[Beefitarian]

Technically its probably cheaper to get an instructor rating and then be "night rating" guy for a winter (or summer if you like to deprive yourself of sleep). Going south sounds like a funner option though.

Hypothetically could a guy do this and never end up giving recomends to keep his or her class 4 rating?

[Shiny Side Up]

Technically its probably cheaper to get an instructor rating and then be "night rating" guy for a winter (or summer if you like to deprive yourself of sleep). Going south sounds like a funner option though.

Hypothetically could a guy do this and never end up giving recomends to keep his or her class 4 rating?

Yes.

so dont have much of a choice as to which months i can fly.

Sure you do. You always have choice. Just be honest with yourself with what you feel is more important. That said though, given your circumstances and the time you have off, why don't you seek those night hours in Aussie or New Zealand?

[Beefitarian]

Hypothetically, I need to think about that. Part time job riding in an airplane talking lots... Anyone want to buy a hypothetical C-6500 crew cab with an 11 foot deck $30000 obo?

[adampenner]

We have Cessna 152s for rent for $123/hour in Steinbach. These are nice looking airplanes, with fuel, insurance, headsets. We have 18 of them (so you won't have a maintenance issue), 4 have long range tanks, all have GPS built in. Fly all night long. Accommodations if you need are $400/month with wireless internet on the airport property.

Adam

[TeePeeCreeper]

^

That's a shameless plug Adam! Furthermore your unwillingness to recognize your rates as being expensive in regards to buying a significant amount of block time while your airplanes sat idle led to my taking my buisness elsewhere. Shame really.

Truth be told if you look in the right places you can find a nicely equipped 172 (IFR equiped/G430) for less than than what Mr. Penner Sr./Jr are offering their 150/152's for.

Regards,
TPC (no disrespect to Adam and his father, but it's the truth)

[CpnCrunch]

I think you'd be very hard pressed to find a 172 rental from an FTU for anywhere close to $123/hr wet. Also, $123/hr seems to be about the going rate for a 152 rental from an FTU.

[TeePeeCreeper]

I think you'd be very hard pressed to find a 172 rental from an FTU for anywhere close to $123/hr wet. Also, $123/hr seems to be about the going rate for a 152 rental from an FTU.

With all due respect I believe your talking your usual Avcanada "I know it all" talk. Must you comment on every thread?

Check out the Colonel's local flight club (note how I'm not "plugging" by using their name either... $110 an hour /wet FYI) but that's not who I ended up renting from in the region as I was able to negotiate a slightly better price with another local FTU.

No axe to grind but why rent a 152 when you can get a 172 for the same price right? Hence my original reply to this post...

Regards,
TPC

[Colonel Sanders]

Being an informed consumer is a good idea, and
the internet makes it ridiculously easy to shop
around.


Here are some (Ontario) Canada prices:



And here are some (Florida) USA prices:

[Colonel Sanders]

Trying to get an apples-to-apples comparison:

Canada:
C150 solo...dual...advanced dual
.........122...174....186

Florida:
C152 solo...dual..advanced dual
..........88....120.....124

Both are before tax. Note that tax in Canada
(Ontario) is 13% while tax in Florida is 6%,
which is significant.

C152 is actually newer with Lyc O-235 instead
of the older C150 with the TCM O-200, but I'm
not sure that's really a deal breaker.

Conclusion: while the aircraft is certainly cheaper
down south, the biggest difference (174 vs 120)
for the same commodity, was for dual flight training.

PS I'm not sure what Advanced Dual really is, but
I included it since both outfits quoted it. Perhaps
that's with an experienced flight instructor?

[Shiny Side Up]

"Advanced" instruction is usually for anything besides PPL and CPL training. Usually.

My question is why do they charge so little for instructors down south?

[Colonel Sanders]

Beats me. They don't pay their regional pilots squat, either.

I think aviation in the USA is like farming in Canada. How
long can do it, depends on how much money you start with.

[Beefitarian]

Because if I worked harder, (I'm pretty sure that's some sort of code for not getting or staying married) I would have, sold the room I'm in, finished my CPL, converted it to an FAA commercial thingy, got a resident alien status, sold the acreage in Alberta, flew my plane somewhere warm like Louisiana, got a CFI rating and live frugally in a hanger with my dog.

I'd probably be that guy from the ground briefing video you keep posting only fatter with less hair.

[Colonel Sanders]

Hey, don't knock it until you try it. Here's
my hangar dog:

[Beefitarian]

See, you keep mistaking me for one of the guys that's jelly about your Pitts and flying the L-39.

Sure I'd like to go for a ride maybe even get checked out on the Pitts but that's not stuff I want to own. If you had a kitchen, bathroom, Internet and a bed in your hanger, I'd get green eyes. Speaking of... I went to the aerobatics club open house on Saturday. I didn't climb in but the Cristen Eagle looks rather spacious.

[Colonel Sanders]

You would like the Christen Eagle, which is essentially
a homebuilt Pitts S-2A with no dihedral on the bottom
wings (reqd for certification).

It has a marvellously wide cockpit! And the canopy
actually stays on, when it is open.

First time I ever flew one, was at an airshow. A very
nice airline pilot gave me his new one to fly.

Like I could say "No, thanks". I guess I shoulda put
it on my card first, but for gosh sakes, it's a Pitts.

Took off, and did an "old man" aerobatic sequence.
No tumbles, no torque rolls, no tailslides. Had a
metal prop, ya know.

Postscript: a couple years later, the owner was flying
acro just off the shore, and as best as anyone can figure
out, a prop blade came off, and the resulting imbalance
ripped the engine off the airframe, leaving a nasty dent
in the leading edge of the top wing on the right side.

His C of G was a tad aft at that point, and he started
to tumble. Amazingly, ol' Floyd got out and pulled the
D-ring and is still alive today. Amazing.

Metal prop blades and acro must be mixed very carefully.
Too many of my friends have come to grief because of
them.

Floyd (above) lost his engine in-flight.

Gary Ward cracked his crankshaft but discovered it on the
ground (oil leak).

Funny story about Sean Tucker. Probably told it before.
Cockpit video camera shows Sean giving acro instruction
in a metal-blade prop S-2B overhead the airport, when
the crankshaft breaks and the prop departs. Sean is as
cool as a cucumber. Tells the girl in front that there is
bad news, and there is good news. The bad news is
that the prop is gone. The good news is that she is
flying with the best pilot in the world. And, he proceeds
to flawlessly deadstick it on the runway below, despite
the missing drag of the prop, which is really noticeable.
Sean is funny. He is even more of a huge male reproductive
member than I am (I know, impossible). Even his own
son can't stand to be around him. But gosh, can he
ever fly an airplane.

PS Not sure Sean likes me any more. Sent him a letter
(he's chairman of the ACE committee) with some frank
observations about the latest revision of the ACE manual.

[Beefitarian]

Well sometimes you write mean things when you are being Frank.

If I were Floyd every time someone was telling a story about an engine failure and called it "Losing an engine.." At some point I'd say, "Listen up sonny. I've lost an engine and it's worse than when they merely quit on ya."

[Colonel Sanders]

I know a guy who flew a (metal blade) prop
Stearman hard. Crankshaft broke in flight,
and the prop tilted back and decapitated him.
I guess he was yawing left at the time.

You don't spin or snap roll a 450hp Stearman.
At least, I don't.