Canjet has three ads for pilots on AvCanada

[Gilles Hudicourt]

Canjet has three job posting on AvCanada for 737 jobs, all dated May 9th 2013.

One for direct entry Captains. http://www.avcanada.ca/forums2/viewtopi ... =7&t=89150

The ad calls for the candidate to be Type Rated on the 737NG with 500 hours on the 737NG but nothing is said about neeeding a current PPC

The second ad is for Type-rated F/Os. http://www.avcanada.ca/forums2/viewtopi ... =7&t=89149

There it calls for a "Valid Type Rating" whatever that means. I know of valid PPCs, but normally type ratings are for life. The captains' ad said nothing about "validity".

The third ad is for non type-rated F/O but preference will be given to those with a "valid" Type Rating. http://www.avcanada.ca/forums2/viewtopi ... =7&t=89151

If anyone cares to enlighten me as to what they mean by "valid" type ratings, I'd like to know.

Also, is Canjet really hiring or are these three ads only there to fulfill the regulatory requirements for applying for a Labour Market Opinion to HRSDC to hire Temporary Foreign Workers as pilots ?

[BE20 Driver]

A few thoughts.

1. I think you're splitting hairs on the TR vs Valid PPC.
2. If I were a betting man, I would say it's to fulfil the requirements of the LMO before the government can make any changes to the program.
3. I applied anyway. A while ago. Still sitting by my phone. I guess, much like Virgin Galactic, I won't get an interview.

[Jim la Jungle]

Salut Gilles,

From my experience dealing with job recruiters for contracts, a "valid" type rating simply means to be current, ready to fly with your 6 months check. Outside the Canada and the USA, I have never seen and doubt that there is such a thing as a PPC or PC. It's all validated by your "sim report".

I can't help you with the Canjet postings since I don't work for them, but I'm also very curious about those ads.

[Gilles Hudicourt]

A few thoughts.

1. I think you're splitting hairs on the TR vs Valid PPC.

I have a 757 type rating and over 2000 hours on type, but I last flew the aircraft in 2002. But I still have a 757 type rating. It's printed on my licence. And it's valid.

If someone posted a job requiring a Type-rated 757 pilot and at least 500 hours on type I qualify. If same person advertises for current 757 PPC, I do not qualify

[12 Step]

There is a fundamental difference between a Type Rating and a PPC. It really does go to the heart of this argument.
A TR is on your license permanently or at least until no Canadian Operator has operated that specific aircraft for 5 years I believe. Eg. You likely won't find anyone with a Comet TR on a valid license anymore. DC-8 and 707 TRs may start disappearing soon if they haven't already.
A PPC is a tied to a specific company. CanJet and Westjet operate the same aircraft type, but you cannot just jump from one company to another without training. The CARs provide for PPC transfer but to the best of my knowledge its rarely used. It will depend on what the Company's Ops Manual says.
Initial training at a new job will be to PPC standards, not TR standards. Once training is complete, the TR is really an afterthought. Paperwork is filled in and it will appear in your next sticker.
A company may say that a TR is required for new hires, but that doesn't mean they don't have to undergo expensive simulator training. A new pilot will still undergo the approved training program and pass a PPC ride.
Personally, an individual who has 3 different Types on their license is the safer bet to hire, than someone with 1 (even if its the Type that's requested). The guy with 3 had learned 3 different airplanes and companies. The guy with 1, may just have gotten lucky.

[OceanGal]

CanJet is conducting Initial courses for 24 pilots July thru October.

[BE20 Driver]

Canjet has three job posting on AvCanada for 737 jobs, all dated May 9th 2013.
...
The third ad is for non type-rated F/O but preference will be given to those with a "valid" Type Rating. http://www.avcanada.ca/forums2/viewtopi ... =7&t=89151

If there was any doubt that this is only to fill the requirements of the LMO, there shouldn't be. Even the Non-TR job opening now requires 1500 hours of jet time as a hard requirement. This wasn't in last year's posting.

[toelessjoe]

A few thoughts.

1. I think you're splitting hairs on the TR vs Valid PPC.
2. If I were a betting man, I would say it's to fulfil the requirements of the LMO before the government can make any changes to the program.
3. I applied anyway. A while ago. Still sitting by my phone. I guess, much like Virgin Galactic, I won't get an interview.

Apparently we share the same shitty phone service provider. No toeless peeps on a Boeing thus far!

- Toeless.

[Gilles Hudicourt]

CanJet is conducting Initial courses for 24 pilots July thru October.

Yes, so I've been told. I think that the two type-rating required ads are to fulfill the HRSDC LMO minimum advertising requirements, and that the non type rating ad is genuine.

[Gilles Hudicourt]

PPC and type rating related regulations

705.113 (6) Subject to subsection (7), where the validity period of a pilot proficiency check, a line check, or annual or semi-annual training has been expired for 24 months or more, the person shall requalify by meeting the training requirements specified in the Commercial Air Service Standards.

725.124 (28) Transportability of a Pilot Proficiency Check - Training Required

Transportability of Pilot Proficiency Checks from one air operator to another is permitted subject to the hiring air operator providing the following training which shall be specified in the approved operations/training manual:

(a) company indoctrination;

(b) pilot ground and emergency procedures training on each type of aeroplane the pilot is assigned, sufficient to cover the air operator procedures and equipment differences;

(c) standard operating procedures review;

(d) sufficient line indoctrination to allow the pilot to become familiar with the air operator routes and operational procedures. In no case shall this be less than two sectors over typical route segments that the air operator flies;
(amended 1998/03/23; previous version)

(e) completion of a line check; and
(amended 1998/03/23; previous version)

(f) the hiring air operator records the PPC validity and expiration date in company records.
(amended 1998/03/23; previous version)

(28A) Hire of Type Qualified Pilots
(amended 1998/03/23; no previous version)

(a) In this standard, "equivalent qualification" means a qualification achieved under an approved Transport Canada course.

(b) An air operator may hire a pilot holding a Canadian type qualification or foreign equivalent qualification , with no PPC on type in accordance with Part VII of the Canadian Aviation Regulations, and shall ensure that, as part of the initial training:

(i) the candidate last check on the aeroplane type was conducted on a synthetic flight training device;

(ii) the following is part of the training:

(A) company indoctrination;

(B) pilot ground and emergency procedures training on each type of aeroplane the pilot is assigned to, sufficient to cover the air operator procedures and equipment differences;

(C) standard operating procedures review;

(D) training in synthetic flight training device or flight training sufficient to pass a PPC; and

(E) sufficient line indoctrination to allow the pilot to become familiar with the air operator routes and operational procedures. In no case shall this be less than two sectors over typical route segments that the air operator flies; and

(iii) the candidate pass the following checks:

(A) completion of a PPC; and

(B) completion of a line check.

745.124(28A) Hire of Type Qualified Pilots

A type rating and the associated training do not have a validity period of their own. However, since a period of 24 months is applied to the PPC, the line check and the associated annual or semi-annual training under CAR 705.113(6), the same logic could be applied to the day the type rating was issued.

“Recent type rating” For the purpose of this guidance, the term “recent type rating” is intended to means a type rating qualification that was not followed by the issuance of a PPC under Part VII of the CARs. A type rating will not be considered recent after 24 months following the issuance of the type rating.

The intent of CASS 725.124(28A) is to address the situation of Canadian or foreign pilots with a recent type rating and no PPC under Subpart 705, or with a type rating and an expired PPC, all under the same Standard. An air operator would use the content of this Standard when they wish to hire such qualified pilot.

Paragraph 725.124(28A) makes allowance for a pilot who may have purchased a recent type rating on an aeroplane without doing a PPC under Part VII, to be hired after having received the training specified in that paragraph and completion of a PPC and a line check, while at the same time making allowance for a pilot with a type rating and an expired PPC who has some experience on the type, to do the same.

In all cases addressed under paragraph (28A), evidence of sufficient and successful training will be demonstrated by the passing of a PPC and the line check with the new air operator.

It should be noted that paragraph (28A) does not provide relief from the requirements of paragraph 705.113(6) of the CARs. An initial training is still required if the candidate does not meet the conditions of CAR 705.113(6).

[brownsideup]

I have heard of several Canadian Pilots (mostly with regional companies) getting calls for interviews but i wouldn't put it past them to hire foreigners again this winter. Especially when you consider that the contract is up next May and Canjet will shrink down to a couple of aircraft if not completely shut down. Maybe they believe it will be difficult attracting qualified applicants knowing that it is only a one-time, seasonal position.

[ea306]

I have heard of several Canadian Pilots (mostly with regional companies) getting calls for interviews but i wouldn't put it past them to hire foreigners again this winter. Especially when you consider that the contract is up next May and Canjet will shrink down to a couple of aircraft if not completely shut down. Maybe they believe it will be difficult attracting qualified applicants knowing that it is only a one-time, seasonal position.

Now would it not make sense if Canjet and AirTransat come up with a cooperation where AirTransat could help supply some B737-800 pilots by recalling their laid-off pilots and support the cost of training them? Then there would be a core of experienced B737 pilots to spearhead the B737 at AT when they get that up and going. Would help Canjet and would avoid the need for drawing on Foreign Contractor Pilots.

[Gilles Hudicourt]

Now would it not make sense if Canjet and AirTransat come up with a cooperation where AirTransat could help supply some B737-800 pilots by recalling their laid-off pilots and support the cost of training them? Then there would be a core of experienced B737 pilots to spearhead the B737 at AT when they get that up and going. Would help Canjet and would avoid the need for drawing on Foreign Contractor Pilots.

Makes a lot of sense, and to me it even made sense when there was no question yet of AT operating its own 737s.
I hope it works out that way.

[Rickyb]

I know Canjet is risky at best. But what contract is up in May that brownsideup is referring to?

Go with Canjet now and be out of work I a year?

[ea306]

Canjet's contract with Air Transat is up in a year. Air Transat are planning to bring the flying in house.
After the recall of the 50 or so laid off pilots from AT, how many more B737 rated pilots will they hire?


As an after thought:
If AT are also considering foreign pilots for seasonal flying; it could seem plausible that a type rated/ current PPC'd Canadian pilot could apply at AT with hopes of being selected with the possibility of seeing seasonal layoffs in the summer. But that is only a guess.

[Gilles Hudicourt]

Canjet's contract with Air Transat is up in a year. Air Transat are planning to bring the flying in house.
After the recall of the 50 or so laid off pilots from AT, how many more B737 rated pilots will they hire?


As an after thought:
If AT are also considering foreign pilots for seasonal flying; it could seem plausible that a type rated/ current PPC'd Canadian pilot could apply at AT with hopes of being selected with the possibility of seeing seasonal layoffs in the summer. But that is only a guess.

Makes a lot of sence. But may I add an afterthought of my own:

If Sunwing plans to continue using foreign pilots for seasonal flying; it could seem plausible that a type rated/ current PPC'd Canadian pilot could apply at Sunwing with hopes of being selected with the possibility of seeing seasonal layoffs in the summer. But that is only a vain hope since the seasonl Aircraft Sunwing rents seem to come with the condition that Foreign pilots be hired in parralel to fly them in Canada.

[whipline]

Gilles you'll be happy to know another 30 seasonal pilots are going to be hired this fall. But unhappy when I tell you the amount of foreign pilots coming.

[Gilles Hudicourt]

Gilles you'll be happy to know another 30 seasonal pilots are going to be hired this fall. But unhappy when I tell you the amount of foreign pilots coming.

Last year Sunwing sent 4 aircraft on a 6 month wet-lease to Europe which corresponds to about 56 pilots (even if more went to Europe because they spent less time than the aircraft so had to be replaced by other Sunwng pilots).

Then Sunwing hired 20 seasonal Canadian pilots, while they brought in 96 foreign pilots under "reciprocity", 119 more under the TFWP and another 56 or so under wet-leases, so I think we know the pattern pretty well. There will be no surprises.......

The big surprise will be to see our own government put its foot down and cry "enough". But I'm no dreamer. The Sunwing lobby machine is plowing ahead at full steam and nothing will stand in the way of Sunwing profits and expansion......

Not even the laws and regulations of this country.

How long will those with the responsibility to make decisions in this country continue to look the other way and pretend they do not understand what is going on ?

CIC will continue to issue "reciprocity" work permit to foreigners against the Sunwing pilots going over on wet-leases to Europe.

CIC will continue to ignore the fact that after Sunwing asks for and obtains "reciprocity" work permits from CIC in exchange for the Wet-Lease they sent to Europe, they again approach the CTA and import wet-leases of their own, these not counting towards the number of pilots brought into Canada. Pilots exported under wet-lease seem to count, while pilots imported under wet-leases fall under the radar. Or rather they pretend that they do, since I pointed it out to them a long time ago.

CIC will also continue to believe that when 200 Sunwing pilots go over to Europe for two months (which is what you are doing this summer), that they can issue 200 work permits to 200 foreigners to come over here for 6 months.

HRSDC will continue to pretend that they believe that the lack of a 737NG type rating make a 14,000+ pilot such as myself with 14 years flying large jets, "unqualified" to work at Sunwing, as though the 737NG type rating that any 500 hour pilot can get on his licence, makes him "qualified".

HRSDC will continue to admit that issuing LMOs to foreigners to bring the cost of flying down is an acceptable reason, when the laws of this country clearly state that such a program can only be used to fill a genuine shortage.

HRSDC will continue to admit that the 30 seasonal Canadian pilots that Sunwing will hire next fall fulfill the HRSDC's regulatory requirement that a company must must make a reasonable effort to hire and train Canadians before they can be allowed to hire foreigners.

HRSDC will continue to allow Sunwing to begin recruiting Europeans in June when the advertisements for Canadians will only appear in Canadian publication in September and October.

HRSDC will continue to make believe that they believe it when Sunwing will claim in October they suddenly discovered that they needed 100 or 200 extra pilots and that because of the short time frame, they have no other choice but to hire foreign pilots, since they no longer have the time to hire and train Canadians.

Transport Canada will continue to violate the Canadian Aviation Regulations and allow hundreds of foreign licence pilots to fly revenue flights under Sub-Part 705, when the CARs do not allow for such a practice as dozens of pilots have expressed to Jean-Francois Mathieu, chief Enforcement at TCCA who did not dare reply to any of them because he knows they are correct in their complaint.

The Canadian Transportation Agency will continue to allow Sunwing to wet-lease any number of foreign airliners they wish to come and fly in Canada on their behalf, even those flown by foreign pilots who had previously failed Canadian Pilot Proficiency Checks and not been re-tested in Canada.

And Revenue Canada, which normally is so aggressive in reaching for the last dime into the pockets of Canadian taxpayers, will continue to look the other way when the hundreds of foreign pilots hired by Sunwing pay not a red cent in this country in Income Tax, Canada Pension Plan, Employment Insurance, not not apply for Social Insurance Numbers, do not declare Canadian Revenue, all of which are required under Canadian Law.

How can there be such a coordinated government "laisser-faire", all in favor of the same company ? It will take something much bigger than Gilles Hudicourt to ever get to the bottom of this.

[rudder]

How can there be such a coordinated government "laisser-faire", all in favor of the same company ? It will take something much bigger than Gilles Hudicourt to ever get to the bottom of this.

Gilles,

That 'something' is ALPA, ACPA, and NAC working together.

I guess that we will have to wait until the fall of 2013 to see if they are effective lobbyists or collectively toothless lions. Given the baiting that you are getting on this forum from those claiming advance knowledge, it is not looking good.

[True North]

[quote="Gilles HudicourtHow long will those with the responsibility to make decisions in this country continue to look the other way and pretend they do not understand what is going on ?[/quote]

As long as it is in their own best interest and as long as the owners of businesses like Sunwing continue to contribute to their campaign/party funds. This is big government Gilles.

But you already know that.

I think what you are doing is highly commendable. Keep up the good fight. Be careful though, if you start to make real headway they will be looking to recruit you.

[Gilles Hudicourt]

No one has called yet. Perhaps I should post my phone number ?

[True North]

Don't worry, CSIS knows where to find you.