Skydive King Air lands gear up

[phillyfan]

It's alright that the odd guy lands gear up, hits a mountain or stalls and spins a Beaver into a swamp, after blowing a tank. If aviation was not so damn dangerous, chicks would not dig us pilots so much. It keeps the pay higher

[Sidebar]

How many airlines do you hear about landing with the gear up?

Very few. Here's one: http://www.ntsb.gov/doclib/reports/1997/AAR9701.pdf.

[SeptRepair]

When a pilot dies, the ridicule is saved. Why is that?

I can't speak for anyone else, but I ridicule
anyone that is stupid. I don't discriminate
on the basis of life or death. I'm pretty sure
that would be both politically incorrect, and
a violation of their Charter Rights.

So can you define the word stupid for us then?

[Colonel Sanders]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stupidity

[Doc]

If you think the only reason for gear up landings is stupidity, you really don't understand why they (and many other types of accidents) happen.

Okay, I'll bite. The guy is doing circuits. There's a hight work load right there. Having to take off, make four, more or less 90 degree turns in the same direction, half while climbing, the other half while descending, all the while challenging yourself mentally and physically with making power changes, raising (on the take off ill from a touch and go) and then lowering flaps, keeping a constant lookout for other traffic, all the while communicating with the tower (if installed)....no bloody wonder he forgot the bloody landing gear! I'm completely drained just keyboarding all this stuff. Totally over taxing my pea like brain.

Human factors? Lets look at some our hero could have fallen victim to. 1. Fatigue. High work load of the aforementioned circuits. 2. Boredom. repetitive boring work load. 3. Company culture. Forced to fly a clapped out Beech 90 without pay. 4. Life pressures. He picked up a hot chick at the bar, and is concerned she may have found his porn collection in his absence. 5. Terminal stupidity. This guy is just too stupid to give a rat's ass, has NO pride in his work habits.

Keep sticking up for these poor victims. Landing gear up is SO totally not their fault. The devil made them do it. McDonald's is hiring.

[pelmet]

Imagine if a 747 did it....

google: "PIA 747 gear up landing". Try the same with C-17 and B-1.

C-5 Galaxy as well back in '85 as seen near the bottom of this page...

http://aircraft.wikia.com/wiki/Lockheed_C-5_Galaxy

Guess they should have hired Doc.

[SeptRepair]

So using wiki, I guess its safe to say then this persons negligence and recklessness by forgetting to put the gear down, qualifies him to be stupid?

[Colonel Sanders]

I guess you must be writing a book.

Stupidity is the inability to learn, either from
instruction, or from your own mistakes.

The real prize goes to people who land gear
up twice.

PS I don't have the pedigree of the folks here,
but I don't do circuits in retractable gear aircraft,
like the C421 or L39. It's not a natural thing to
do, in that kind of airplane.

For example, when I do a 421 checkout, I will
have the student take off. Gear up, set climb
power, turn left 90 degrees at 1000 AGL. Climb
to 2000 AGL, level off, set cruise power setting,
screw with the mixtures and fuel flow. Once we
are stabilized, 180 degree turn to the right.

I ask for a descent from 2000 AGL to 1000 AGL.
Power should come back to 21 inches, props
and mixtures untouched, bonus points for 10
flap and landing lights extended. Turn right 90
degrees to join the downwind, I would like to
see the gear down. Turn base and final, flaps
as required in 10 degree increments to maintain
airspeed and glidepath. Should not have to touch
the throttles during the approach, every landing
should be full flap, and will be full stop with a back
track to start all over again. No touch and goes.
Rinse, lather, repeat until he can do it reasonably
proficiently.

Again, I'm not as smart as everyone else here,
but that's what I like to see in the 421 for basic
VFR maneuvering, which ain't a circuit. If I taught
on King Airs - which I am monstrously uninterested
in doing - I would probably do the same thing.

[GUMPS]

This thread is great and I hope it never dies or gets locked.
The next step is to send the avcanada SS after the guy and ask him "did you perform your landing checks?"

If he did..well he fucked up somewhere. If he didn't be really fucked up somewhere

[ahramin]

A346Dude, human factors are often present in gear up landings, true. What Doc and others are trying to point out though is that in this type of accident, the basic factor is pilot competence. Sure, you can list all the human factors that led to a particular accident, but you can also drop a competent pilot into the same situation and you don't end up with a gear up.

In this profession we are way too accepting of pilots who are accidents waiting to happen. We've all met the type: Took a few tries to get through the flight tests and exams, needs extra training but they get there in the end, aren't all that good at the details but a real nice guy to work with. Predictable is preventable though, and you can predict an accident for these pilots with disheartening accuracy.

So sure, list all the human factors that led to this particular accident happening on this particular day and try to mitigate against them, but realize that we shouldn't accept that these factors excuse the basic problem, lack of competence.

[Siddley Hawker]

The next step is to send the avcanada SS after the guy and ask him "did you perform your landing checks?"

Ja but vill dey haff vays of making him talk?

[Sidebar]

... you can also drop a competent pilot into the same situation and you don't end up with a gear up.

Sure, competent pilots don't land gear up. But some of those competent pilots still end up smeared against a mountain or in a smoking hole or off the end of the runway or....

[GUMPS]

This is a thread about landing gear up isn't it? Not about smacking into the side of a hill.. We'll cross the bridge when it happens again this month.

[Cat Driver]

Colonel, I note you do not put your props forward during your landing approach......

.......

[Big Pistons Forever]

No touch and goes.

There is a long sad string of accidents where students retracted the landing gear instead of the flaps on a touch and go landing or even worse retracted the gear instead of the flaps while still rolling down the runway on a full stop landing.

I am hard over on this in any airplane I am in.

1) No touch and Go's

2) Nothing gets touched until the aircraft is clear of the runway.

[Colonel Sanders]

you do not put your props forward during your landing approach

Zing! Zing! Zing!

[Cat Driver]

If you don't put the props full forward on the approach what would you do if a deer ran out on the runway or a meteroite slammed into the runway and left a big smoking hole?

[Siddley Hawker]

A propos to nothing...

[7thirtyseven]

If you think the only reason for gear up landings is stupidity, you really don't understand why they (and many other types of accidents) happen.

Okay, I'll bite. The guy is doing circuits. There's a hight work load right there. Having to take off, make four, more or less 90 degree turns in the same direction, half while climbing, the other half while descending, all the while challenging yourself mentally and physically with making power changes, raising (on the take off ill from a touch and go) and then lowering flaps, keeping a constant lookout for other traffic, all the while communicating with the tower (if installed)....no bloody wonder he forgot the bloody landing gear! I'm completely drained just keyboarding all this stuff. Totally over taxing my pea like brain.

Human factors? Lets look at some our hero could have fallen victim to. 1. Fatigue. High work load of the aforementioned circuits. 2. Boredom. repetitive boring work load. 3. Company culture. Forced to fly a clapped out Beech 90 without pay. 4. Life pressures. He picked up a hot chick at the bar, and is concerned she may have found his porn collection in his absence. 5. Terminal stupidity. This guy is just too stupid to give a rat's ass, has NO pride in his work habits.

Keep sticking up for these poor victims. Landing gear up is SO totally not their fault. The devil made them do it. McDonald's is hiring.

Doc, while I concider you and the ol' Colonel to be blowhards without a cause, I found this post to be vwry entertaining. So much so I read it twice. Kudos to ya!

[7thirtyseven]

Above.... Concider = consider.

[Doc]

Imagine if a 747 did it....

google: "PIA 747 gear up landing". Try the same with C-17 and B-1.

C-5 Galaxy as well back in '85 as seen near the bottom of this page...

http://aircraft.wikia.com/wiki/Lockheed_C-5_Galaxy

Guess they should have hired Doc.

Ya, smart ass. I guess they should have.

[Doc]

Colonel, I note you do not put your props forward during your landing approach......

.......

I don't. I'd be surprised if you do, Cat?

[Cat Driver]

Of course I don't, but I do put them full forward when I close the throttles to land....then the next time I start it up to take off they are in the take off position.

[railroad]

Big Pistons, I hear what you are saying, and agree with your train of thought.

Doc and Cat Driver, I agree with much of what you say. I think if we were ever in the same area or era, we would get along quite well; but please relax a little. Take the blinders off and read what the posters are saying. Read it with a clear head and unbiased thoughts. We are all aware of your opinions on many topics, and often agree. But you guys seem to chime in on every thread, often jumping right back into the same old arguments.

Bob

[Cat Driver]

Yeh, we do tend to fixate on things that sometimes seem to be unimportant to many here.

But in my own self defense I just had a thought that may account for us not landing gear up.

We don't put our props forward on the approach, I bet that accounts for our not landing gear up, we have less items to check before landing.