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PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2012 4:17 pm 
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flatface wrote:
Flying wing, it sounds like you have a good job that you like. I may sound like a crusty old man (38 years in the maintenance game) but I have to agree that after some time in you will realize that there are better gigs out there.

Wait until you start getting pressure to sign the release on some aircrat because passengers are waiting, it is too expensive to fix it right now, egomaniacs who did the job for a few months, who are now your boss, now think they know enough to direct you and give you orders, even though they contravene the CARS, standard practices, safety standards, etc.

I guess you have not experienced the style of management where daily explosive rages are SOP, when your boss sticks his face inches from yours, screaming at the top of his voice, heis still unable to motivate his workforce, and all in front of your crew when you are the crew chief?

The shift work, the missed stat holidays, the working outside in all extemes of weather, no summer vacations for the first 20 years of your career when your family is young, all takes it's toll.

The industry is all about three things now, money, money, and money. Less for you, more for the executives.

I am out of the game now and am so glad I never caused any damage or deaths (passenger or manager). The stress and responsibility just gets to you after a while.

I just wish I had become a hair dresser, they can't outsourse that to Central America......



Wow reading that was depressing...



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PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 8:16 am 
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 4:31 pm 
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Flatface: I'm with you!

BH



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PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 9:30 am 
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flatface wrote:
fixnfly, my point was not to depress. I just offered one man's experience and opinion. My experience may not represent the industry standard.


Sorry to hear that you had to go through some of that. I don't know why I've experienced far less of the kinds of things you've described. I'm begining to wonder if there are noticeable differences between various sectors of the industry: East vs West, Fixed Wing vs Rotary, Civilian vs Military, Airlines vs GA vs Corporate, etc. After hearing some people's stories on here, I feel pretty lucky to not have gone through much of it. I've only ever worked rotary wing out west, and maybe I just lucked out and ended up working for half decent companies. I've worked for a couple not so decent companies, but I was lucky enough to have the opportunity to be able to go elsewhere before things got too much for me to bear. Or maybe it was because I was young and single and I could pack up and move on a moment's notice.

Mind you, some of the complaints I hear about this industry are pretty much the same anywhere else. Everybody's boss is berating them, everyone's co-workers are slaking off, every company or government department is mis-managed, etc. I have yet to hear about that elusively perfect job, getting great pay, hard working and helpful co-workers, intelligent and respectful managers, profitable company, good benifits/working conditions, low-stress environment, safe conditions, 100% happy customers 100% of the time, in a stimulating, respected, and fulfilling career.

Every company in every line of work is going to have sh*t to deal with. Life is just a matter of finding someone's sh*t that we're willing to put up with. Heck, I could say the same about women... :rolleyes:



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PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2012 3:16 pm 
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I occasionally glance at this forum, mostly looking for interesting bits of news and info that may not be found in other places. However I can't help but to notice that the most common subject in circulation these days is AME dissatisfaction. Just about all new subjects, unless they have to do with strictly technical matters, sooner or later turn into some kind of a bitching fest. Anonymity of the internet allows for personal attacks and ridiculing of anyone attempting to support the idea that being an AME is an honorable and worthy profession. I'm happy that 20 years ago when I was starting my basic training sites like this were not yet around to sour my outlook of what to date has been a challenging but very rewarding career.

One could pose many arguments why some do better than others in this line of work and thus, I'm sure, give rise to yet another barrage of angry and resentful replies. However my point is not to turn this post into yet another pissing contest but merely present an alternate point of view.

We work in a rather specialized, complex and technically demanding field of work. I don't care if you work in fixed or rotary wing fields, things today look a lot different than they did even 10 years ago. It then stands to follow the logic that if the technology is continuously evolving one should evolve with it in order to be able to his/her job effectively. In a perfect world that translates into new type-training and skills development that's generally paid for by the employer but what if that's not the case, what if your boss feels that you don't deserve that new type-course? Another scenario is where an individual would like a better/different job but the new job requires a slightly different skill set, what then ? Most of us have no trouble justifying paying 20 or 30k for a new car but when it comes to a self development it somehow seems wrong to spend the 10k to advance your own career. It's better to sit over a pint and cry on your mate's sleeve about being passed-over.
It's ridiculous to think that one can have a long and fulfilling career in such highly specialized field of work without ever having to do any additional learning beyond the basic training. Your boss may not always have your best interest in mind, so at some point virtually all of us arrive at a stage where some self-directed development is necessary to keep one's career moving happily forward. Some choose to accept that simple fact of life and get on with it, others prefer to debate the fairness of it all, while yet another group moves on straight to complaining about it. The end results will no doubt be different for all three groups.

Every dime I ever spent on improving my own skills I got a return on, usually in the first year. It's as simple as that. Motivation is everything in this line of work and it is all what YOU MAKE of it. All the happy AMEs I know have always understood that concept and actively manged their own careers instead of letting others do that for them.

Cheers



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 8:07 am 
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Wait a minute here. Am I reading this right? Two posts in a row not bashing the industry? Has the world gone topsy-turby?

All kidding aside, Weasel, you make a good point about other fields of work. As someone who had left the industry I found out real quick that aviation isn't so bad after all. When I left to do industrial air compressors I was happier then a pig in sh*t that I was out of aviation because I thought anything was better then fixing aircraft. I was even on here claiming how happy I was that I was out. Then 3 months later, not so happy anymore. All those things you listed like lazy co-workers and bad bosses, I experienced first hand. I realized that it is no different outside of aviation. I during that time away I worked with guys from various trades like electricians, millwrights, plant operators that bitched and complained so much about how bad there job was that they would put guys like Pat Richards to shame. Their arguments were no different then what you read on here. And these guys were paid a lot more then an AME. So making more money isn't going to mean its a better job.

So when the time can to decide to either stick with compressors and give up my license or go back to aviation I chose to get back into aviation. Some of you will probably say I am retarded for doing so but at least I can say I have experienced another line of work and have something to compare aviation to. Not like some who say plumbing or welding is better but never have done it. They just go by hearsay.

When I came back to aviation I had a totally different attitude. A much better attitude. I wasn't coming on here with after with a "holier then thou" attitude I just wanted to point out that it isn't any different doing something else. For some who did leave aviation and are happy doing it, great. More power to you. It wasn't for me.

Seamus, you are right 100% saying that "it's what you make of it". I am glad I got to experience something else because it made me realize that I actually like aviation.



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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2012 7:48 am 
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Last edited by flatface on Fri May 30, 2014 11:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2012 4:27 pm 
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Its becoming FORBIDDEN to teach morals and ethics from kindergarten to university !! Watch on the 6 oclock news for the continuing downfall of this country !! :(


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2012 7:30 pm 
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I figured out the issue, with being an AME .. The media portrays us as a bunch of carnies... I saw this in the local paper while I was visiting the inlaws house, and thought about this topic.. LOL. But in all honesty, I don't hate my job, I most of the time enjoy getting up and going to work, and I have a roof over my families heads... Whenever I think "i hate aviation".. I think back to my most hated job, "welding plastic", and remind myself that "I don't hate it that bad." and I have a feeling that if I switched industries, the grass will only seem greener on the other side, until I get there.


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PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2013 6:32 am 
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Wahaaaaaaaa,

DHC-2, DHC-3-T, DHC-6, C-180, YVC, Waaaaaaaa.
Bush pilto once said, "I put a thoughsand air miles, be for you roulded over in bed, so get moving. YZF, LRAS, YVC
.
SMcL.



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PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2013 2:31 pm 
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Seamus, you make a very good point, and I aswell as many other in the industry I'm sure would LOVE to fork out the 5 grand for an engine course, the 10 grand for a type course.. But with the wage im currently earning as an AME I can hardly make it through the month.. Rent/groceries/gas/insurance plus a case of beer or two.. I haven't even been able to start thinking about the 35g I still owe for my schooling from 5 years ago, let alone 5 or 10k to advance my career... If I was actually making money in my current line of work and felt like I was moving forward, My ambition and will to improve would certainly put me In a classroom.. After all re those not the 2 man things that put us all here in the first place?

Gyro



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PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2013 11:42 pm 
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Really?? If you had 15G in your pocket you would lovingly throw it away to make an extra 2-3 bucks an hour and take on ACA responsibility? Really??

Don't forget about loss of wages, traveling to the course location, accommodation, and food.

How long at the extra 3 bucks an hour would it take take to pay it off?

If you took this to an investment adviser, or better yet a loans officer, you would get laughed at.

Shit return on investment, but I think you might already see that, and your story of monthly financial concerns is very common amongst many AME's, regardless of what some of the mouthfoamers preach here otherwise.

Let the companies train you, it shouldnt be your concern to train yourself to work on their equipment, even though that seems to be what they want.

Every company seems to want endorsed AME's without training any these days.



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PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2013 10:08 am 
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Yep.... sorry but buying a type endorsement--whether you are an AME or a pilot--is just setting yourself up for more abuse. Type specific training should be paid for by the company--companies who should factor this cost in as part of doing business. The only time it might make sense to buy an endorsement is if you are running a very good contracting company and you can justify the investment based on a guaranteed rate of return. Guys who are successful contractors.. both AMEs and pilots... got their type ratings paid for by previous companies and then jumped ship when the time was right.

If you are going to throw ten grand away, at least blow it on something interesting like a week in Vegas or high risk stocks. Your rate of return will be much higher if you are successful and if not... what have you lost in comparison buying a type rating that will take you years to pay off--that is if it even gets you a job?

And yeah... $3/hr for a whole pile more headaches, BS, and responsibility...? No thanks. I get a kick out of those who want endorsements and ACAs so badly. :D



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PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2013 8:36 pm 
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You both make very good arguments, to me it would only make sence to pay for it yourself as a contractor, that way it gets you more work in the long run, probably a bit more money and is all a tax write off.. All that being said, put 15 grand in my pocket, and and Vegas idea will n doubt have jumped up a few notches on the list of priorities lol


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PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2013 10:18 pm 
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Yep, Vegas. :mrgreen:

To be honest though, I don't think even contracting is a much better bet, mostly because it can be more sporadic. I think in the end you'd probably end up around the same income, just with more time off contracting, which is the reason why most guys do it because there isn't that much of a difference between the wages these days.

I cant say I know of anybody in other trades that has done anything similar with regards to spending the amounts being discussed for training themselves for the industry they are in.

Don't really know why aviation peeps tend to accept it, especially considering what most make.

Anyway, recommend saving your money for a better ROI opportunity, which is basically anything else non aviation. :wink:



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PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 11:28 pm 
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You guys prove my point exactly, it's much better to bitch and moan about the state your career is in as opposed to actually doing something about it. Or better yet, get into a completely different trade all together and start from the scratch vs. fine tuning something you been at for the past 10 or 15 years... yeah, that makes perfect sense !

It's clearly much better idea to 'invest' into Vegas trips, jacuzzi, high-risk stock portfolio or that 40k+ brand new truck which by the time you finish paying off, with all other associated costs, will cost about double that. Clearly all those other things are better than actually trying to repair your own career. I guess you boys never heard of doctors, teachers, lawyers, accountants, nurses etc etc all of which do a considerable amount re-current training plus other forms of professional development most of which is done out of their own pocket and on their own time.

So what is it about AMEs that makes them so dense as to assume that the whole world owes them ???



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PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 12:26 am 
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Cause we have given at the office and don't really give a f_{€ any more.

Piss off troll. You are talking to people that have spilled blood, worked bare hands in -50, sacrificed family again and again, endured ridiculous shifts, dealt with stagnant pay for over a decade while fuel and housing costs doubled and couldn't give a flying Frenchman as to what you think..



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PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 12:39 am 
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Further, though I'm generally not prone to making inflammatory remarks on this forum, telling somebody experiencing difficulties with their chosen profession that it's better to just look for a new line of work is about the MOST stupid advice one can give out, or receive. It's like telling a guy with car problems to start looking for a new ride or a man with marital difficulties that it's easier to just look for a new wife... Certainly in few cases that may be the end result but vast majority of instances there are many things to be tried before one has to resort to such drastic measures. In general, negativity is a slippery slope however many on this forum seem to thrive on it and continue to encourage others to do so as well.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 12:43 am 
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It's not 1964 anymore.. It no longer matters what you can do but what you have an expensive education saying you can do. With a mortgage and kids doing what makes you happy becomes very narcissistic...


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 12:46 am 
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Stumper wrote:
Cause we have given at the office and don't really give a f_{€ any more.

Piss off troll. You are talking to people that have spilled blood, worked bare hands in -50, sacrificed family again and again, endured ridiculous shifts, dealt with stagnant pay for over a decade while fuel and housing costs doubled and couldn't give a flying Frenchman as to what you think..


WOW...perhaps one day they'll give you a gold star for the life-time of sacrifices to aviation :smt040



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PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 12:50 am 
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Troll.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 1:35 am 
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Stumper wrote:
Troll.


Clever comeback Stumper. I should put you in touch with my cactus, you're both prickly and your IQ is about the same.



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PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 1:45 am 
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Sorry for the unrequited love Seamus; but I like my bitches to smell nice...


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 1:52 am 
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:laughbig:


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 9:49 am 
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I gradded in 2011 and I went straight into helicopters. I wanted to work on helicopters so that was my choice. I got a job as an apprentice making 13 bux an hour. No benefits, no holidays, no OT... crappy work environment. I told myself it was part of the process in order to get my AME license. After a year my wage went to 15 and change an hour and I was maxed out as an apprentice. I didnt quit because I had the opportunity to get a 212 endorsement out of them. Im getting my license now in a month and I have a really bad taste in my mouth. If i could go back in time I would not have taken Aircraft Maintenance. This was a terrible career choice so far. I still dont have a type course (they want to get an in house training program set up) I make no money and have gone so far into debt its ridiculous. I got in thinking there was a "shortage" of AME's? BS! there are TONS of old guys still working who have no intention of quitting any time soon because they cant afford it.
If youre ok with making not enough money and being treated like shit all the time then go for it. Get that AME license. As for me, if I could go back in time knowing what I know now, no way!
Also, if you plan on getting married and having kids... whoa! Just ask any AME what thats like.

Now I may sound bitter and I have only worked at one place. But the reason I am so frustrated is because I am married with two kids. Im just saying that if youre tied down this job is not for you. You need to keep your options open in this industry. If you are willing to walk out that door you are far better off. I am stuck making no money, no type course, huge debt because I am not willing to get a divorce. how fucked up is that?

You invest 5 years of your life and a shit load of money to get your license for what?? 60k a year? thats not enough money. I was told you can make 100k a year, which is true but you have to be able to go where ever whenever. just keep that in mind before you decide if this is for you.

This rant is all over the place but pretty much I just hate where I work and my personal experience has been horrible so far. Even if it gets better at a different company, the 5 year investment and debt and eating Kraft dinner and spam every night or starving while living in a shoebox is not fucking worth it!



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