Happy Birthday, You're Fired!!

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single_swine_herder
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Re: Happy Birthday, You're Fired!!

Post by single_swine_herder »

Just for the record in this thread, not everybody that continues to work beyond the first day they qualify to retire does so because they need the money.

As difficult as it is for some posters to understand, there actually are people that enjoy doing what they're doing because it's what they've wanted to do since they were about 4 years old ...... and going to "work," isn't "work" at all.

The only exception is the time spent having to tolerate the depressing ramblings of Sad Sacks that see everything in life as a downer, the world is out to F them over, their lives are in disarray, and they expect me to be their counsellor while in the workplace.

If you don't like it and aren't willing to act professionally .... get out and do something else somewhere else instead of poisoning the workplace as surely as if you were putting Arsenic in the drinking water cooler.

I'll continue to "work" in my chosen area of interest until I feel ready to leave. If that causes those wanting my job to be anxious about what calendar date they'll get their turn in my chair .... too bad.

For those who seem to detest what they are doing and feel they are like whipped Donkeys in a third world country and screwed over, frankly I feel sorry for you.
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Rockie
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Re: Happy Birthday, You're Fired!!

Post by Rockie »

Ah_yeah wrote: I will concede with full 20/20 hindsight, that the failure was not being able to negotiate the terms of this change.
Close, but what you've described above was a result of the failure, not the failure itself.

The real failure was our group's total lack of foresight. We failed in ethics believing our own advancement up the list was more important than an individual's right to not be discriminated against. In fact most of us still don't believe age based mandatory retirement is discriminatory. That continues to be a failure.

There are far too many others who think mandatory retirement may be discriminatory, but wanted to push as many people out the door as possible before it became legally so. In my opinion that's the biggest failure of all.
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Ah_yeah
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Re: Happy Birthday, You're Fired!!

Post by Ah_yeah »

Rockie, I admire your altruism but give your head a shake. Raymond's victory had nothing to do with rights or discrimination. The western world is in the beginning of a big shake-up and the likes of us are not invited to the meeting.
ACPA membership in general viewed this as a sacred cow. The corp saw an opportunity for another "grab" and has decided to pad the pension numbers by penalizing "early" retirement. That hurts for many that have a life outside the uniform.
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Rockie
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Re: Happy Birthday, You're Fired!!

Post by Rockie »

Ah_yeah wrote:Rockie, I admire your altruism but give your head a shake. Raymond's victory had nothing to do with rights or discrimination. The western world is in the beginning of a big shake-up and the likes of us are not invited to the meeting.
ACPA membership in general viewed this as a sacred cow. The corp saw an opportunity for another "grab" and has decided to pad the pension numbers by penalizing "early" retirement. That hurts for many that have a life outside the uniform.
If by "altruism" you mean I believe age based mandatory retirement to be discriminatory then you're right. It's the first question I asked myself when this issue came up and I had to determine where I sat on it ethically. That by itself would have driven my actions.

The second question I asked myself was which way was this realistically going to go now that the issue was being challenged. There has only ever been one correct and obvious answer to that, and whatever an individual's ethical leanings on this issue the sheer practicality of getting the most out of the inevitable should have dictated our response. It didn't and we're now paying the price.

I don't care about what motivates the individual's who challenged this because it doesn't matter. Our group got fixated on fighting individual people instead of looking realistically at the issue and got totally, and predictably squashed by events. The company walked away with all the marbles because we let them. Like taking candy from a baby.
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Re: Happy Birthday, You're Fired!!

Post by Old fella »

A few years back when a couple of us got out, our positions were back filled by a couple of chaps who has previous experience with Canada3000 amongst other places. Smart/qualified people they were and I was content to see them get opportunities as I saw myself clear and was ready to pack it all in. Others in my section of the same age saw things different(for them) and continued on working.Fair enough as well. I made the right decision for me and never did regret doing what I did.
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Dockjock
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Re: Happy Birthday, You're Fired!!

Post by Dockjock »

How many baby boomers does it take to change a lightbulb?

Zero, but there are 10 blocking the ladder and this is somehow your fault.
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tailgunner
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Re: Happy Birthday, You're Fired!!

Post by tailgunner »

Rockie,
If you can, please answer...
How many years of pensionable military service did you bring over to AC when you were hired?
Thanks.

Ps. Plus or minus one or two years is fine..if you want to ensure your privacy.
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Re: Happy Birthday, You're Fired!!

Post by Rockie »

tailgunner wrote:How many years of pensionable military service did you bring over to AC when you were hired?
Why do you ask?
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Dockjock
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Re: Happy Birthday, You're Fired!!

Post by Dockjock »

Probably because lots of those who claim to have been given not enough time to build up a "full" pension at AC also conveniently neglect to disclose that they actually spent a full career, or at least a significant chunk of time in the military or elsewhere prior.
I've debated with a few on this point. "Wahh, I only have 15 yrs." Were you in the military? "Oh yeah, I retired at 44 with a full pension." Ok then, 1+1 then buddy.
I have some limited sympathy for others from civvie street. "Wahh I got hired at 37." And you saved ZERO dollars during the preceding 17 years of work? These are also the guys who claim to have taken a 60% pay cut to come over. Duhhhh
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Rockie
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Re: Happy Birthday, You're Fired!!

Post by Rockie »

Dockjock wrote:Probably because lots of those who claim to have been given not enough time to build up a "full" pension at AC also conveniently neglect to disclose that they actually spent a full career, or at least a significant chunk of time in the military or elsewhere prior.
I've debated with a few on this point. "Wahh, I only have 15 yrs." Were you in the military? "Oh yeah, I retired at 44 with a full pension." Ok then, 1+1 then buddy.
I have some limited sympathy for others from civvie street. "Wahh I got hired at 37." And you saved ZERO dollars during the preceding 17 years of work? These are also the guys who claim to have taken a 60% pay cut to come over. Duhhhh
First of all that's not me.

Secondly, you still haven't learned anything about wasting time fighting individuals while the real issue squashes you like a bug.

Thirdly, you don't save for retirement unless you want to eat cat food and live in a run down abandoned trailer. You have to invest, and 98% of us aren't nearly as good at doing that as we think we are.
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Ah_yeah
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Re: Happy Birthday, You're Fired!!

Post by Ah_yeah »

As difficult as it is for some posters to understand, there actually are people that enjoy doing what they're doing because it's what they've wanted to do since they were about 4 years old ...... and going to "work," isn't "work" at all.

Good for you. You're probably a pleasure to work with

The only exception is the time spent having to tolerate the depressing ramblings of Sad Sacks that see everything in life as a downer, the world is out to F them over, their lives are in disarray, and they expect me to be their counsellor while in the workplace.

Maybe they don't want your counselling. I certainly don't think it's in my job description as PIC to provide uplift to a...gasp, Sad Sack.

If you don't like it and aren't willing to act professionally .... get out and do something else somewhere else instead of poisoning the workplace as surely as if you were putting Arsenic in the drinking water cooler.

How do get unprofessional poisonous conduct from some that don't "love" the job more than you ?

I'll continue to "work" in my chosen area of interest until I feel ready to leave. If that causes those wanting my job to be anxious about what calendar date they'll get their turn in my chair .... too bad.

Have at'er skip

For those who seem to detest what they are doing and feel they are like whipped Donkeys in a third world country and screwed over, frankly I feel sorry for you.

Sad Sacks of the company, rejoice ! He feels sorry for you ! :lol:
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DH772
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Re: Happy Birthday, You're Fired!!

Post by DH772 »

Chris hadfield announces his retirement at age 53 and states

"There are so many young astronauts in the program. I would be an obstacle for them," said Hadfield.

I guess he never got the memo eh Rockie



I don't think it's a matter of most can't afford to retire. But rather it's most can't afford to retire on the lifestyle they're chasing.
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Rockie
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Re: Happy Birthday, You're Fired!!

Post by Rockie »

DH772 wrote:Chris hadfield announces his retirement at age 53 and states

"There are so many young astronauts in the program. I would be an obstacle for them," said Hadfield.

I guess he never got the memo eh Rockie



I don't think it's a matter of most can't afford to retire. But rather it's most can't afford to retire on the lifestyle they're chasing.
That's funny. Do you really think Chris Hadfield is going to stop working and sit around the porch at the family cottage for the rest of his life? Does he seem like that kind of guy to you?
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Mig29
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Re: Happy Birthday, You're Fired!!

Post by Mig29 »

Rockie,

people like you, who seem very intelligent, yet so blind to see the simple side of life......trouble me, honestly. I get this feeling of deep disappointment of how someone like you and "few" others don't see that we are ALL collectively getting screwed! :?

When I see you point of view how this is going to benefit us all, I'll retract my statement.

Cheers,
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Rockie
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Re: Happy Birthday, You're Fired!!

Post by Rockie »

If someone who seems intelligent to you can see something you can't Mig, maybe it's because you're not looking far enough.
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Re: Happy Birthday, You're Fired!!

Post by MRP »

Rockie wrote:
DH772 wrote:Chris hadfield announces his retirement at age 53 and states

"There are so many young astronauts in the program. I would be an obstacle for them," said Hadfield.

I guess he never got the memo eh Rockie



I don't think it's a matter of most can't afford to retire. But rather it's most can't afford to retire on the lifestyle they're chasing.
That's funny. Do you really think Chris Hadfield is going to stop working and sit around the porch at the family cottage for the rest of his life? Does he seem like that kind of guy to you?
Exactly!! He is going to move on to a new career AND enjoy his retirement and pension from the space program AT THE SAME TIME! When Chris got into this he knew that he wouldn't be there at 70 years old; JUST LIKE EVERY AC PILOT DID WHEN THEY GOT HIRED. Each retired pilot had what 5, 10, 20, 30 years to prepare for their retirement from AC? And if one didn't like the conditions of the job when hired (mandatory retirement at 60) one shouldn't have accepted it. If one did accept the position, it was their responsibility to be prepared accordingly in their lifestyle which includes things like financial obligations, recreational hobbies, and having the next career ready to go if so desired.

I don't understand why one would want to work when they don't have to but that's just me. I guess its like seeing the glass half empty when you could see it half full. Like some see the title of this thread as "Happy Birthday, You're Fired", but I saw it more like this "Happy Birthday, Congratulations You're Retired!!"
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Re: Happy Birthday, You're Fired!!

Post by yycflyguy »

Sweet. It's like Deja-vous all over again.
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Rockie
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Re: Happy Birthday, You're Fired!!

Post by Rockie »

You're absolutely right. I don't know why I let myself get drawn back in to this pointless debate but I'll correct that right now.
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777longhaul
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Re: Happy Birthday, You're Fired!!

Post by 777longhaul »

MRP and others

Guess......you did not read Chris's article very carefully, re read it. If you dont want to, let me help you, he retired by his own choice, NOT because he was forced out. Big difference.
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Les Lavoie
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Re: Happy Birthday, You're Fired!!

Post by Les Lavoie »

single_swine_herder wrote:Just for the record in this thread, not everybody that continues to work beyond the first day they qualify to retire does so because they need the money.

As difficult as it is for some posters to understand, there actually are people that enjoy doing what they're doing because it's what they've wanted to do since they were about 4 years old ...... and going to "work," isn't "work" at all.

The only exception is the time spent having to tolerate the depressing ramblings of Sad Sacks that see everything in life as a downer, the world is out to F them over, their lives are in disarray, and they expect me to be their counsellor while in the workplace.

If you don't like it and aren't willing to act professionally .... get out and do something else somewhere else instead of poisoning the workplace as surely as if you were putting Arsenic in the drinking water cooler.

I'll continue to "work" in my chosen area of interest until I feel ready to leave. If that causes those wanting my job to be anxious about what calendar date they'll get their turn in my chair .... too bad.

For those who seem to detest what they are doing and feel they are like whipped Donkeys in a third world country and screwed over, frankly I feel sorry for you.
+1
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