Running out of fuel

[flyinthebug]

Macstork...

Thank you for sharing your stories. Im glad both senarios turned out well for you. Its amazing how comfortable a pilot can become when an AME assures him that his fuel guages were just recalibrated...and that trust can become your final resting place and last BAD decision.

Bottom line is what Doc said, if you cant find a way to confirm your fuel load, the aircraft shouldnt move until you do. In your case, you even dipped your tanks and believed you were good (with you having no knowledge of it potentially being the wrong stick for your machine). I agree with every word you spoke about airlines wanting minimum fuel and maximum revenue loads. That pressure has always been there and likely always will. Being vigilant and anal about fuel will keep you alive and safe. Thank you again for sharing your stories.

Fly safe all.

[Taco Joe]

$500, people:



http://www.aircraftspruce.com/pages/in/ ... essure.php

For the endlessly shrieking and honking legal beagles:

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/pdf/fp5stc.pdf

While that's a great aid in determining how much fuel you SHOULD have left, it doesn't replace inoperative fuel gauges.

[Colonel Sanders]

Perhaps not legally, but once you start using the
fuel totalizer - which is accurate to within a gallon -
it makes the tank gauges look like something from
the 19th century.

[Taco Joe]

True, but people start relying on those a bit too much instead of their primary instruments (e.g. fuel gauges), which, if working properly can save the day.

And, speaking from experience here, a fuel totalizer or dipstick won't give you an indication of a fuel leak that develops inflight, no matter how well it's calibrated.

[Cat Driver]

And, speaking from experience here, a fuel totalizer or dipstick won't give you an indication of a fuel leak that develops inflight, no matter how well it's calibrated.

When I consider safety I try and stack the odds as far in my favor as possible.

How many fuel leaks do pilots encounter in flight that cause them to run out of fuel over their life time as a pilot?

I have over 30,000 hours and my number is zero.

On the other hand a fuel totalizer properly used is an awesome instrument to have.

[Beefitarian]

I'm karazeeee and would like to have both. The totalizer and functional fuel gauges. This is the kind of irrational thoughts that cause me to live on the Internet.

[pdw]

While that's a great aid in determining how much fuel you SHOULD have left, it doesn't replace inoperative fuel gauges.

Are you saying this device does NOT measure the precise weight of fuel still left in your tanks ?

[ahramin]

Of course not. It measures the volume of fuel sent to the engine. It has no idea how much fuel is in the tanks, it just subtracts how much was used from how much you told it was in the tanks.

[CFR]

1) It does not replace the requirement to have functioning fuel gauges;
2) As it does not measure fuel in the tank, the accuracy is only as good as the last guy who put in fuel and set the device;
3) If I can find out how to have it STC'd for my airplane (I am not on the very extensive list) I will install one in a heart beat!

[Taco Joe]

How many fuel leaks do pilots encounter in flight that cause them to run out of fuel over their life time as a pilot?

I have over 30,000 hours and my number is zero.

I would have to say that running out of fuel is a pretty rare occurence (I've personally never had it happen), especially because of a fuel leak, but it can happen. I've been able to avoid it because either I had working fuel gauges to see that I'm losing more fuel than I should have or someone had noticed a fuel leak (I had a camera operator once notice that his images were turning blue and were becoming distorted).

I remember going to my old boss one time when I had fuel gauge issues and he said "You know how much fuel went in and you have a totalizer, so go", all I had to do was mention a fuel leak scenario and it quickly went from trying to get me to fly to getting the gauges fixed.

[Cat Driver]

Sure if the airplane certification requires working fuel gauges the discussion about working fuel gauges is academic....

.....however in the past we did fly airplanes without accurate working fuel gauges and relied on putting the required fuel in the tanks combined with dipping the tanks to reconfirm we had safe fuel for the trip.

I have ferried airplanes across oceans many times without accurate working fuel gauges and never ran out of fuel.

[photofly]

Speaking as someone who's just installed a fuel totalizer, I must add that they too need to be calibrated. Otherwise, they'll give you a very precise but still incorrect figure for the amount of fuel that you've used or have remaining.

Just because the digital readout reads 19.9 gallons remaining, doesn't mean you don't actually have 17.9, or 21.23.

Not only that, but they depend on you filling the tanks accurately too.

[pdw]

Where crew changes a lot might be more of a test keeping accurate track of totalizer data.

... It has no idea how much fuel is in the tanks ....

"Never too much gas unless on fire" is a time-tested adage, though the mindset created can lead to excess loading ... such as on small jet singles with the larger jet-fuel capacities. "How much fuel" to start with is a calculation with those larger tanks when around half to three quarters full ... to be sure of enough or 'not too much' while loading for minimum fuel trips.

For example, a 172 fuel-capacity is around 1/4 of its empty-weight, where the 208B fillup is about 1/2 of empty; it only has 4 times the MTOW of the 172 yet carries 8-9 times more fuel-weight, using standard capacities. Unnecessary fueling (fuel not presently needed) which contributed to an overloading is verifiable in a small number of the accident reports where aircraft were determined over MTOW.

The excess-fuel-payload contribution doesn't seem to be as readily linked in a probable-cause / factual discussion to being the sole contributor of the W&B-envelope it sometimes may have been ... where other contributions to that payload such as error in pax, baggage, or cargo weight were more-easily seen as considerable. Although, in the fuel starvation report on the previous page, the other payload does not even get mention as the potential contributor to running low due to the flight's "minimum fuel" planning.

The fuel-totalizer makes good sense, just not so sure the fuel weight of gallons remaining (ie at 7/16, 5/8 or 3/4 ) in the larger volumes were always accurately judged, where fuel supplies varied and pilots changed aircraft.

[Liquid Charlie]

The only way to operate without a functional fuel gauge is via an MEL - so that limits most small aircraft unless it is specifically addressed in the aircraft manual (don't know of any but I have limited knowledge)

I have only one observation -- I have noticed over the years that running low on fuel seems to repeat for the same individuals --

[pdw]

It's going to be the team players who are most successful in preventing an opportunity to arise where having to face a low fuel situation.

With so much fuel-related detail to consider, there is sometimes a disadvantage for "individuals" left completely on their own where W&B/fuel calculations turn into the real challenge (ie remote areas). Those that make it the "team effort" in advance of reaching the fuel reserve probably never are the highest risk for actually running out.

Example: In the CFS above the fuel density table it states the pilot "can and should" be able to get accurate product information from the fuel supplier ... which presumeably would include the actual weight/volume of the fuel ... the batch corrected density at 15C. Now if you give that a try ... it's not that easy is it ? When the batch varies more at 15C, how does a pilot not need to know it is at the lightest specific gravity and now it's getting warmer ?

If a fuel source is weaker / cheaper than it normally is, the pilot setting out to operate at a close W&B:fuel-distance relationship must know by how much his/her burn-rate is up from the norm.

[pelmet]

How many fuel leaks do pilots encounter in flight that cause them to run out of fuel over their life time as a pilot?

I have over 30,000 hours and my number is zero.

On the other hand a fuel totalizer properly used is an awesome instrument to have.

I have had one aircraft that had a fuel leak and my fuel guage is what let me know about it and divert as I would not have made it to destination. Plus, on occasion, a pilot does leave a fuel cap off and that 19th century guage may save their bacon. A totalizer is a nice thing to have as well.

[Shiny Side Up]

How many fuel leaks do pilots encounter in flight that cause them to run out of fuel over their life time as a pilot?

I've had 3 fuel leaks, one of which caused a loss of power. All ended up in uneventful (though inconvinient) diversions. Only one of the three was one where fuel went overboard in an uncontrolled manner. Glad I was near the airport when it happened.

[Big Pistons Forever]

I've had 3 fuel leaks, one of which caused a loss of power. All ended up in uneventful (though inconvinient) diversions. Only one of the three was one where fuel went overboard in an uncontrolled manner. Glad I was near the airport when it happened.

I have had 2 leaks in flight. One minor, one very serious. The minor one was a leaking quick drain on a Seneca, the serious one was on an ancient POS C 421A that decided to dump the entire contents of one aux tank bladder into the wing. The sudden loss of quantity coupled with the faint smell of Avgas made for a landing ASAP.

[esp803]

How many fuel leaks do pilots encounter in flight that cause them to run out of fuel over their life time as a pilot?

I have over 30,000 hours and my number is zero.

True it may not happen often... but it happens...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Transat_Flight_236

I'm not saying you are not an experienced pilot, but 30,000 hours in the grand scheme of things is nothing. According to random statistics, which could be made up on the spot, there are 700,000 pilots in the US and Canada (Private, Commercial and ATPL) if as an average each of those pilots flew... let's say 10 hours, that would be 7,000,000 logged per year. I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt (age wise) and say you have been flying for 40 years. This means in the time you have been flying 280,000,000 hours have been logged. Your flying, which by most accounts is impressive and I'm jealous of a lot of it, accounts for a hair over .01% which is still fairly impressive, but statistically is insignificant. I suspect substantially more hours then 7,000,000 are logged per year. On the flip side, I do agree that fuel leaks leading to total loss of fuel are also statistically insignificant.

[Colonel Sanders]

In true AvCan style, after the calculations are complete
as to how many angels can dance on the head of a pin ...

Get a $500 fuel totalizer. 99.999% of the time, it will
be the "answer in the back of the book".

You level off in cruise. Your GPS says you will be there
in an hour 15. Your totalizer says you have an hour 45
fuel. There ya go.

I know there are people here who refuse to turn on the
GPS in their cellphones, or any other radio nav in the panel
for that reason. They hate ANR headsets, too - they like
having a headache at the end of the day.

But for the rest of us, once you try ANR, GPS and a fuel
totalizer, there is no going back to the stone age.

[Cat Driver]

I'm not saying you are not an experienced pilot, but 30,000 hours in the grand scheme of things is nothing.

That depends on whos grand scheme of things you are examining it on.

My thirty thousand hours were flown by me accident and violation free, that is the only statistic I care about.

I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt (age wise) and say you have been flying for 40 years.

My first training flight was sixty years ago, two days ago.

[Shiny Side Up]

But for the rest of us, once you try ANR, GPS and a fuel
totalizer, there is no going back to the stone age.

Bah, headsets are too high tech, I just use ear plugs, that way I don't have to hear the yammering on the radio. Or the students.