Well made points, Desksgo. I certainly wasn't talking down to anyone. Just trying to rouse some enthusiasm from those who may be doing less than they could be to find the job they want. But check your PM's for a little explanation.
Shankdown
Why I Got Out of Aviation
Moderators: lilfssister, North Shore, sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, I WAS Birddog
i didn't write i was a md80 pilot for 9 years and not paid.
I know my english is not good but you really don't understand .
I just wrote i was in aviation for 9 years and not i was a md80 pilot for 9 years.
You guys are so funny!!!
Just becouse one guy understeand so all the others follow him.
I never paid for any flight hours, i just paid my type ratying and when my company went belly up , a pilot offered me this position and it was only for 6 months.
At the beginning i was so happy becouse i thought: i am not paid but i am logging hours and maybe in 6 months i can apply somewhere.
It turned out to be longer then that and then i quit.
I understeand that even if you have 1000 hours in a jet , when you apply somewhere there are another 20 or 30 pilots like you that compite for the same job.
The chances you get that job are very remote, unless you know....
Immagine you have 3000 hours you apply to west jet, and you think you are going to get that job becouse you think you are the only one to have so many hours, when you get to the interviw you realize there are so many other like you...
Dear shankdown i am happy for you, but if your company goes belly up i know for shure you will enter a big pool full of people like you that are trying to get out in the same way as you do.
I only hope it doesn't happen.
But this is the truth, i sent my Cv everywhere and i got offered a job in a place so far that i didn't want to go becouse the money were 1500 dollars a month and so i decided to quit all this bad general Pilot treatment.
Today i will consider a pilot job only above 70000 dollars a year!!
I had fun piloting that beast, it really goes fast you can't immagine.
A Md80 is a very fast machine that really makes you smile for a long time.
It climbs like a rocket!!
I will never forget the trust you feel with that plane.
I can say it has been the most happy part of my life.
I would have done that for free for the rest of my life, but i have to pay the bill every month...
I know my english is not good but you really don't understand .
I just wrote i was in aviation for 9 years and not i was a md80 pilot for 9 years.
You guys are so funny!!!
Just becouse one guy understeand so all the others follow him.
I never paid for any flight hours, i just paid my type ratying and when my company went belly up , a pilot offered me this position and it was only for 6 months.
At the beginning i was so happy becouse i thought: i am not paid but i am logging hours and maybe in 6 months i can apply somewhere.
It turned out to be longer then that and then i quit.
I understeand that even if you have 1000 hours in a jet , when you apply somewhere there are another 20 or 30 pilots like you that compite for the same job.
The chances you get that job are very remote, unless you know....
Immagine you have 3000 hours you apply to west jet, and you think you are going to get that job becouse you think you are the only one to have so many hours, when you get to the interviw you realize there are so many other like you...
Dear shankdown i am happy for you, but if your company goes belly up i know for shure you will enter a big pool full of people like you that are trying to get out in the same way as you do.
I only hope it doesn't happen.
But this is the truth, i sent my Cv everywhere and i got offered a job in a place so far that i didn't want to go becouse the money were 1500 dollars a month and so i decided to quit all this bad general Pilot treatment.
Today i will consider a pilot job only above 70000 dollars a year!!
I had fun piloting that beast, it really goes fast you can't immagine.
A Md80 is a very fast machine that really makes you smile for a long time.
It climbs like a rocket!!
I will never forget the trust you feel with that plane.
I can say it has been the most happy part of my life.
I would have done that for free for the rest of my life, but i have to pay the bill every month...
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justplanecrazy
- Rank 8
- Posts: 815
- Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 1:57 pm
Hey Shankdown...
Thanks for getting the exact point that I've been trying to convey across. I'm real jealous of you but hopefully I'll be there someday writing the same post to the next wave of lost souls.
I've noticed that the pilots that continuously bitch about the industry are often the ones that are too scared or incapable of making their career rise. I know that's a real shot below the belt but when I hear someone lash out at a pilot for buying a PPC telling him that its people like him that make "us" fly these crappy jobs, I just have to laugh. Sure it doesn't help the industry but do you really think that its that persons fault that you're still stuck at the bottom of the pile.
Out of all of the people that I know that have made it, not one of them sat at home whining. They were out there with a true drive to get somewhere. I still say this game is just like pro sports. If you say I'll never get there and don't go to every practice without reservation, you won't. You have to make your own breaks and stop blaming others for your blank career. Get out there and be relentless. I know that it doesn't mean much coming from a guy who 2 years ago saw the industry in the same light as Ludacris did and joined ATC but now that I look back and see where some of my classmates are now, I truly regret my decision. People say hindsight is 20/20, so let me just say that in hindsight... I wish I had stayed in the trenches.
The odds are that you won't make it... true. I had less than an %10 chance in getting an ATC job from the initial application to the licence and where am I now?? I do agree that there is a cutoff point where you get to an age where you want or need a steady income and a broader view of life rather than just aviation. If you get to that point and still don't have a light at the end of the tunnel, then you gave it your best and you should move on without any regrets. But don't do like I did and quit after having a few bad swings at bat, you'll regret it for the rest of your life.
Thanks for getting the exact point that I've been trying to convey across. I'm real jealous of you but hopefully I'll be there someday writing the same post to the next wave of lost souls.
I've noticed that the pilots that continuously bitch about the industry are often the ones that are too scared or incapable of making their career rise. I know that's a real shot below the belt but when I hear someone lash out at a pilot for buying a PPC telling him that its people like him that make "us" fly these crappy jobs, I just have to laugh. Sure it doesn't help the industry but do you really think that its that persons fault that you're still stuck at the bottom of the pile.
Out of all of the people that I know that have made it, not one of them sat at home whining. They were out there with a true drive to get somewhere. I still say this game is just like pro sports. If you say I'll never get there and don't go to every practice without reservation, you won't. You have to make your own breaks and stop blaming others for your blank career. Get out there and be relentless. I know that it doesn't mean much coming from a guy who 2 years ago saw the industry in the same light as Ludacris did and joined ATC but now that I look back and see where some of my classmates are now, I truly regret my decision. People say hindsight is 20/20, so let me just say that in hindsight... I wish I had stayed in the trenches.
The odds are that you won't make it... true. I had less than an %10 chance in getting an ATC job from the initial application to the licence and where am I now?? I do agree that there is a cutoff point where you get to an age where you want or need a steady income and a broader view of life rather than just aviation. If you get to that point and still don't have a light at the end of the tunnel, then you gave it your best and you should move on without any regrets. But don't do like I did and quit after having a few bad swings at bat, you'll regret it for the rest of your life.
We have no effective screening methods to make sure pilots are sane.
— Dr. Herbert Haynes, Federal Aviation Authority.
— Dr. Herbert Haynes, Federal Aviation Authority.
You must be a very romantic guy and that is so sweet. When you will grow up and see that bills cannot be paid just showing a fly licence, your kid shoe cost more than yours and cannot be paid with a cool flying story, you will realize that we want to fly and be professionals and GET PAID for whar we are worth. People that do thing only because thay love it are called amateurs. I want to be a PROFESSIONAL pilot not an amateur. I spent 70K $ to get my commercial and i am happy with that, i will spend the same money all over again, what i am trying to say is that in canada be a pilot and also have a life is very hard. Plus remember we live to fly, we do not fly to live. GOOD luckMain Gear wrote:To me it seems that there is a co-relation between pay and success in aviation. Pilots who complain about the pay seem to be in the industry for the wrong reasons and likely less successful in advancement. My bet is that with the majority of successful career pilots, money isn't the issue. There are a lot more crappy jobs out there that pay wosre. No matter what career you choose, rookies take crap, get paid crap, it all sums up to experience and chararcter building. GET into aviation because you are passionate for it. What dollar figure can you put on sitting up front and popping out on top, carefree, soaring like a bird, or the sight of those lead in lights down to minimums, besides the fact you just got a family safe to their vacation, flew mail across the country or maybe saved someones life??? Just like I thought, no dollar amount. Why do people go to university for five years to become a teacher? The money isn't that great. Or do construction 12 hours a day, coming home all sore. My bet is that they like the work. If you climb into an airplane and consider it a job, turn around, walk off the ramp, drop of your pass and quit while you're ahead. Don't get into aviation for the fame, and certainly not for the fortune. This is not the aviation of 20 years ago. With rising expenses for the airlines, and fuel through the roof, and passengers expecting a bus fare, pilots salaries are taking a hit and airlines profits erased. If fares aren't adjusted for inflation and fuel, there won't be aviation. All airlines should collaborately adjust fares so everybody makes money and not offer a charity service. There's enough business for everybody. Hell, it's cheaper to fly across the country then on train or bus.
Hey, but this is just my $0.02.
It's better to break ground and head into the wind than to break wind and head into the ground
You flew an MD80 for 9 years without getting paid?
I'm very sorry but that qualifies you as an idiot, at the very least you should get a Darwin nomination.
That's what you wrote! Short BUS.
I didn't say i flew a md80 for 9 years without getting paid.
I flew a MD80 almost 2 years with 1000 dollars a month expenses paid for.
Before that i was flying a PA31 part time and money were not good as well.I can say tryed and very hard and so far didn't work.
I don't want to fly as an amateur, i want to fly as a professional pilot.
Stop getting jobs with a low pay.
If you are an engineer with 5000 hours experience doing something you don't apply for a job that pays you 20000 dollars a year.
If you are a fresh degree in whatever you want , you maight get paid 35000 dollars a year as a start and after a couple of years you will be paid 50000 or more.
I think it's a goood thing that when you have 300 hours you don't get paid very well,but after 2000 hours on a jet I DEMAND at least 50-60000
dollars a year to start.
I'm very sorry but that qualifies you as an idiot, at the very least you should get a Darwin nomination.
That's what you wrote! Short BUS.
I didn't say i flew a md80 for 9 years without getting paid.
I flew a MD80 almost 2 years with 1000 dollars a month expenses paid for.
Before that i was flying a PA31 part time and money were not good as well.I can say tryed and very hard and so far didn't work.
I don't want to fly as an amateur, i want to fly as a professional pilot.
Stop getting jobs with a low pay.
If you are an engineer with 5000 hours experience doing something you don't apply for a job that pays you 20000 dollars a year.
If you are a fresh degree in whatever you want , you maight get paid 35000 dollars a year as a start and after a couple of years you will be paid 50000 or more.
I think it's a goood thing that when you have 300 hours you don't get paid very well,but after 2000 hours on a jet I DEMAND at least 50-60000
dollars a year to start.
wow, i feel really depressed right now, i am having some serious doubts about the aviation industry, i dont know if i ever will even finish my licenses now. Not just cause of what you guys have said, but what i have seen and heard over the last couple years. Im going into my last year of high school, and now i might not even apply for a aviation college.... this sucks.
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The Dangerzone!
- Rank 1
- Posts: 25
- Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2004 5:19 pm
Dear Evan , Do not base your future on what you read on this thread.
Take our lives as somebody's experience.
it's not said that you will never be a pilot.
I personally think that if you really want something you will achieve.
ALL DEPENDS how much you love it.
I happen to be a MD80 pilot, i can say i piloted that plane, but unfurtunatly it's all i can say.
I wish i could be a real professional and not what i happen to be.
EVERYTHING can turn out to be bad.
If i could come back i wouldn't choose the pilot path only becouse it didn't work, if it worked maybe i would still do it again.
What i can say or recomend is that before you finish your licence see how many connections you have in this industry and how good you are in selling yourself( oviusly do not give your self for free like i did...) and then follow your instinct. I know this might sound stupid, but in my life i always give the way to the rationality instead of instinct and i was almost ALWAYS wrong .
In this forum i would say there are 50 % professional PILOTS and another 50% no professional.
You do the math.
I would say the pilot business is very very hard to get in.
I have been in this industry since 1997 and i have seen more and more pilots quit.( i worked in Europe untill six moths ago).
I have seen Captains making 150000 dollars a year and the year after making 20000 dollars in a water bombing aircraft.
I have seen pilots get togheter and open a resturant and making 3 times what they were making before quitting.
I have seen pilots opening a real estate agencies and make 1M in 8 months of work.
I have seen pilots that in all this mess got hired in a better paying position still as a pilot.
This is my ecperience and i what i can say is that you should NEVER stop becouse you heard or seen.
But ofcourse you should take in considaration what is around you.
Plan and think before do anything, but above all i would listen to my instinct.
Take our lives as somebody's experience.
it's not said that you will never be a pilot.
I personally think that if you really want something you will achieve.
ALL DEPENDS how much you love it.
I happen to be a MD80 pilot, i can say i piloted that plane, but unfurtunatly it's all i can say.
I wish i could be a real professional and not what i happen to be.
EVERYTHING can turn out to be bad.
If i could come back i wouldn't choose the pilot path only becouse it didn't work, if it worked maybe i would still do it again.
What i can say or recomend is that before you finish your licence see how many connections you have in this industry and how good you are in selling yourself( oviusly do not give your self for free like i did...) and then follow your instinct. I know this might sound stupid, but in my life i always give the way to the rationality instead of instinct and i was almost ALWAYS wrong .
In this forum i would say there are 50 % professional PILOTS and another 50% no professional.
You do the math.
I would say the pilot business is very very hard to get in.
I have been in this industry since 1997 and i have seen more and more pilots quit.( i worked in Europe untill six moths ago).
I have seen Captains making 150000 dollars a year and the year after making 20000 dollars in a water bombing aircraft.
I have seen pilots get togheter and open a resturant and making 3 times what they were making before quitting.
I have seen pilots opening a real estate agencies and make 1M in 8 months of work.
I have seen pilots that in all this mess got hired in a better paying position still as a pilot.
This is my ecperience and i what i can say is that you should NEVER stop becouse you heard or seen.
But ofcourse you should take in considaration what is around you.
Plan and think before do anything, but above all i would listen to my instinct.
Evan
You need to take a lot of what is said in this forum with a grain of salt. Yes, the aviation industry is a bit of a bitch to break into (and that's putting it mildly). I have done more than my fair share of shitty jobs for shitty pay...working for jerks who expect me to kill myself to pad their bottom line. Worked at one place where the Operations Manager would force guys to fly bare-bones 172's into known icing conditions just to pay some bills. My most recent real job was flying as a S/O in Boeing 727's into really neat places in South America, but that resulted in a lay-off/termination, yada-yada....
During this down-turn, I am the airport manager of a small municipal airport and CFI of the flight training unit, and Chief Pilot, and Operations Manager, and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer etc... at least I'm still working in the industry I love. Sometimes I wish I didn't love it so much, but I do. I know my wife would have been happier if I was a butcher, a baker or a candlestick maker....but I'm not.
Yes, there are downturns in the industry. It is a cyclical industry so for every downturn there is an upturn. My advice to you is if you are considering continuing in the aviation industry as a pilot, do yourself a real favour and get something else to fall back on. I have a bachelor degree in Commerce (hence the airport manager position). I have had to rely on my other skills to keep food on the table before. I left avitation for three years while I worked as an inside sales rep for a fastener distributer. I hated the job and kept staring out the window at airplanes taking off and landing....but I knew the slump wouldn't last for long. While I worked there, I took the time to pick up a rating or two on weekends and flew for fun. One of the happiest days of my life (other than my wedding day) was the day I handed in my two weeks notice so that I could take a flying job.
That run lasted from 1998 to 2005. Not bad....seven years. Those were really good years too. I'm now doing whatever I can to weather this latest downturn, taking comfort in the fact that it has to improve.
Could I have made more money doing anything else....probably yes. Would I have been happier.....I doubt it. It's a wonderful industry filled with some of the best people I have ever had the privilege of knowing, yes it has it's scoundrels, liars, cheats and downright mean people....but I have found out the good guys outweigh the bad guys. Have I known friends that ploughed themselves into some "Cumulo-granitius"?....more than I care to think of at times. My latest friend who is no longer with us was just mauled by a bear at a float base in the NWT, so I suppose I'm a little reflective on the industry right now.
All in all, I suppose you could say that I'm one of those guys who "didn't make it" in the industry because I'm not the A340 captain with the four bars and scrambled eggs on the cap earning a quarter mil a year salary. I love what I do, even if I get paid crap to do it right now. I take solace in the fact that it won't be crap forever. I suppose I'll be the victim of lots of flame mail for saying that.... "the eternal optimist" just lives in a dream world....etc. I know what makes me happy, and that is what really matters. My wife would sooner have a happy (but poor) husband coming home rather than a cranky miserable (but richer) husband.
So Evan, there are many more jobs in aviation that don't involve being an airbus captain for a major airline, set your sights high.....but don't be too disappointed if you don't achieve it. Your career is a journey, not a destination....enjoy every step of the way. I have had a lot of fun with my students when I was "just an instructor"....I got to see a lot of the country that many non-pilots just read about when I was "just a bush pilot".... and thoroughly enjoyed the destinations when I was "just a friggin' Second Officer on a trash-hauling cargo 727". I hear people bitch, moan and complain every step of the way....but they forget to enjoy the good things that each step along the way provides. No, I never got to wear the 4 bars and the scrambled eggs on my cap, have the hottie flight attendants all over me in foreign destinations.....but I don't think I would have changed it for the world.
Keep both your eyes open, both ears open and make your own decisions.
During this down-turn, I am the airport manager of a small municipal airport and CFI of the flight training unit, and Chief Pilot, and Operations Manager, and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer etc... at least I'm still working in the industry I love. Sometimes I wish I didn't love it so much, but I do. I know my wife would have been happier if I was a butcher, a baker or a candlestick maker....but I'm not.
Yes, there are downturns in the industry. It is a cyclical industry so for every downturn there is an upturn. My advice to you is if you are considering continuing in the aviation industry as a pilot, do yourself a real favour and get something else to fall back on. I have a bachelor degree in Commerce (hence the airport manager position). I have had to rely on my other skills to keep food on the table before. I left avitation for three years while I worked as an inside sales rep for a fastener distributer. I hated the job and kept staring out the window at airplanes taking off and landing....but I knew the slump wouldn't last for long. While I worked there, I took the time to pick up a rating or two on weekends and flew for fun. One of the happiest days of my life (other than my wedding day) was the day I handed in my two weeks notice so that I could take a flying job.
That run lasted from 1998 to 2005. Not bad....seven years. Those were really good years too. I'm now doing whatever I can to weather this latest downturn, taking comfort in the fact that it has to improve.
Could I have made more money doing anything else....probably yes. Would I have been happier.....I doubt it. It's a wonderful industry filled with some of the best people I have ever had the privilege of knowing, yes it has it's scoundrels, liars, cheats and downright mean people....but I have found out the good guys outweigh the bad guys. Have I known friends that ploughed themselves into some "Cumulo-granitius"?....more than I care to think of at times. My latest friend who is no longer with us was just mauled by a bear at a float base in the NWT, so I suppose I'm a little reflective on the industry right now.
All in all, I suppose you could say that I'm one of those guys who "didn't make it" in the industry because I'm not the A340 captain with the four bars and scrambled eggs on the cap earning a quarter mil a year salary. I love what I do, even if I get paid crap to do it right now. I take solace in the fact that it won't be crap forever. I suppose I'll be the victim of lots of flame mail for saying that.... "the eternal optimist" just lives in a dream world....etc. I know what makes me happy, and that is what really matters. My wife would sooner have a happy (but poor) husband coming home rather than a cranky miserable (but richer) husband.
So Evan, there are many more jobs in aviation that don't involve being an airbus captain for a major airline, set your sights high.....but don't be too disappointed if you don't achieve it. Your career is a journey, not a destination....enjoy every step of the way. I have had a lot of fun with my students when I was "just an instructor"....I got to see a lot of the country that many non-pilots just read about when I was "just a bush pilot".... and thoroughly enjoyed the destinations when I was "just a friggin' Second Officer on a trash-hauling cargo 727". I hear people bitch, moan and complain every step of the way....but they forget to enjoy the good things that each step along the way provides. No, I never got to wear the 4 bars and the scrambled eggs on my cap, have the hottie flight attendants all over me in foreign destinations.....but I don't think I would have changed it for the world.
Keep both your eyes open, both ears open and make your own decisions.
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Jaques Strappe
- Rank (9)
- Posts: 1847
- Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2005 6:34 pm
- Location: YYZ
Luscombe
Great post! You would make a great writer. Reading your story reminded me of something an airline captain once told me years ago when I first started flying.
He said ." son, enjoy the journey, because if you get to the destination and it isn't what you expected, you will become a bitter man."
I have found that piece of advice to be the best yet and when I look back at some of the shit jobs I've had, I find myself smiling because actually, I was having fun.
We all have different destinations I suppose but I am willing to bet that even with the bitching, most are enjoying the journey.
Great post! You would make a great writer. Reading your story reminded me of something an airline captain once told me years ago when I first started flying.
He said ." son, enjoy the journey, because if you get to the destination and it isn't what you expected, you will become a bitter man."
I have found that piece of advice to be the best yet and when I look back at some of the shit jobs I've had, I find myself smiling because actually, I was having fun.
We all have different destinations I suppose but I am willing to bet that even with the bitching, most are enjoying the journey.
Probably the most valuable piece of advice here is to have another line of work to fall back on. I suspect the unhappiest pilots don't have another skill or trade, so they're in real trouble in lean times.
I'm not quite sure why being a 340 captain is considered king of the hill in aviation. If it's for the money, you're in the wrong business, there are plenty of other ways to make more money than that. If it's for the flying, you're in the wrong business, airline flying isn't much fun at all. Just ask any airline pilot.
I guess it's a mindset thing - aviation isn't just a job I try to pull money out of. Christ knows I've spent a fortune on it over the years.
I fly because I enjoy it tremendously:
Maybe I was just dropped repeatedly on my head as a small child, but my advice is to figure out what you enjoy doing, and DO IT. Life is too short to do something you don't enjoy. You won't be very productive at it, either.
I'm not quite sure why being a 340 captain is considered king of the hill in aviation. If it's for the money, you're in the wrong business, there are plenty of other ways to make more money than that. If it's for the flying, you're in the wrong business, airline flying isn't much fun at all. Just ask any airline pilot.
I guess it's a mindset thing - aviation isn't just a job I try to pull money out of. Christ knows I've spent a fortune on it over the years.
I fly because I enjoy it tremendously:
Maybe I was just dropped repeatedly on my head as a small child, but my advice is to figure out what you enjoy doing, and DO IT. Life is too short to do something you don't enjoy. You won't be very productive at it, either.
simo - thanks, i know what i wrote, apparently you don't though. I really don't care how long you worked for free, the fact you did it at all disgusts me. You wonder why salaries are being brought down? Because you and others like you are buying their ratings and working for free. People like you make me sick.
Dear short BUS.
I lived all my life in Europe.
That's the way it works there.
To join an airline you have to pay your own type rating.
Then you sign the contract.
What happened to me is that right after i finished the TR i signed the contract and after the company sefty course, they went belly up.
My contract was 65000 Euro a year( 100000 CAD) so i was in the right path.
You ca not say i am discusting becouse i followed what Europe does.
It's like i say Canadian pilots are discusting becouse you fly in such a bad ice condition with bad planes.
I remember that when i was flying in Europe the maintenace for my navajo was impeccable, that plane was old but working well.
Always respected the load and NEVER flown in known ICE.
And i can tell you even when i was flying the MD80 one night ( i was doing cargo) the captain was not feeling well, so i decided not to fly and i remember the nobody EVER told me anything regarding that matter.
I think i always kept my professionality with me, the only problem is that the market didn't do good.
I lived all my life in Europe.
That's the way it works there.
To join an airline you have to pay your own type rating.
Then you sign the contract.
What happened to me is that right after i finished the TR i signed the contract and after the company sefty course, they went belly up.
My contract was 65000 Euro a year( 100000 CAD) so i was in the right path.
You ca not say i am discusting becouse i followed what Europe does.
It's like i say Canadian pilots are discusting becouse you fly in such a bad ice condition with bad planes.
I remember that when i was flying in Europe the maintenace for my navajo was impeccable, that plane was old but working well.
Always respected the load and NEVER flown in known ICE.
And i can tell you even when i was flying the MD80 one night ( i was doing cargo) the captain was not feeling well, so i decided not to fly and i remember the nobody EVER told me anything regarding that matter.
I think i always kept my professionality with me, the only problem is that the market didn't do good.
Dear si MO,
Yes, all us canadians fly crap planes in bad weather. ???
I know for a fact that's not how it works over there, and the mentality of "everyone else is doing it, it must be ok" holds no weight with me.
I'm not even going to start on your remarks about icing.
You're the one who wrote "I've been in aviation for 9 years and never got paid for it". I'm not making this stuff up, why are you writing that and then saying you didn't? make up your mind.
Yes, all us canadians fly crap planes in bad weather. ???
I know for a fact that's not how it works over there, and the mentality of "everyone else is doing it, it must be ok" holds no weight with me.
I'm not even going to start on your remarks about icing.
You're the one who wrote "I've been in aviation for 9 years and never got paid for it". I'm not making this stuff up, why are you writing that and then saying you didn't? make up your mind.
my point isn't if you fly in ice or not.
My point is if you fly with an a/c that is not meant to fly in that condition.
Apparently i read it in AVCANADA and i didn't make it up.
In Europe , maintenace is very good, and in Canada it's good to but only at 49 th parallel or so.
It's known that lots of times up there you guys fly in conditions that aren't ment for such a little and slow plane.
This is what i read in this forum so far, unless those guys are sayng that becouse they don't want anybody to go there and still their jobs.
I have not to make up my mind becouse you continue to don't understan.
I am rewriting again what i wrote.
I said: i have been in aviation for 9 years and never get paid.
You wrote: you piloted a md80 not getting paid for 9 years, well that qualify you as an idiot.
Then i wrote: i didn't say i piloted a MD80 for 9 years without gatting paid
I said i piloted a MD80 for two years with no pay but only my accomodation paid for(1000 dollars a month).
Then i replyed to you that i didn't pay for my hours and i specify that i even signed a contract but never seen any money becouse my company went belly up before i got any checks.
After that you continue to don't understeand and you wrote thinking i was getting payed.
I know i am bad in english but i really don't understeand why you are the only one insisting on this subject.
i want to reconferm my declaration:
I was in aviation since 1997.
I was a PA-31 pilot and then a MD80 pilot.
The PA31 part was remunerated with 600 dollars a month for expenses and the MD80(full time) part was remunerated with 1000 dollars a month for expenses.
At the end of the month i was left with 0 dollars and sometimes even less ten that.
So in 9 years i logged lots of hours multiengine prop and jet.
But in all this time i gained 0.
I could have been a pilot if i had a 737 or A320 TR becouse there are lots of planes out there but MD80 are very few now.
I hope this time it is clear.
My point is if you fly with an a/c that is not meant to fly in that condition.
Apparently i read it in AVCANADA and i didn't make it up.
In Europe , maintenace is very good, and in Canada it's good to but only at 49 th parallel or so.
It's known that lots of times up there you guys fly in conditions that aren't ment for such a little and slow plane.
This is what i read in this forum so far, unless those guys are sayng that becouse they don't want anybody to go there and still their jobs.
I have not to make up my mind becouse you continue to don't understan.
I am rewriting again what i wrote.
I said: i have been in aviation for 9 years and never get paid.
You wrote: you piloted a md80 not getting paid for 9 years, well that qualify you as an idiot.
Then i wrote: i didn't say i piloted a MD80 for 9 years without gatting paid
I said i piloted a MD80 for two years with no pay but only my accomodation paid for(1000 dollars a month).
Then i replyed to you that i didn't pay for my hours and i specify that i even signed a contract but never seen any money becouse my company went belly up before i got any checks.
After that you continue to don't understeand and you wrote thinking i was getting payed.
I know i am bad in english but i really don't understeand why you are the only one insisting on this subject.
i want to reconferm my declaration:
I was in aviation since 1997.
I was a PA-31 pilot and then a MD80 pilot.
The PA31 part was remunerated with 600 dollars a month for expenses and the MD80(full time) part was remunerated with 1000 dollars a month for expenses.
At the end of the month i was left with 0 dollars and sometimes even less ten that.
So in 9 years i logged lots of hours multiengine prop and jet.
But in all this time i gained 0.
I could have been a pilot if i had a 737 or A320 TR becouse there are lots of planes out there but MD80 are very few now.
I hope this time it is clear.
Thanks for the reassurment in the industry but it wasnt just what was in this fourm that made me feel negative about the industry. Ive talked to a lot of instructors and pilots alike, and its the industry hasnt been the same since 9/11. Adn you guys say its a cycical industry, well, its been almost 4 years, for me, thats a lot of time, when is this uptown going to happen? Another thing i have a problem with, is when i am getting my degree in business, how will i have time and brain capacity to do ground school for a cpl, while all my classes, then on the weekends, still find time to fly for a couple of hours? And where will i find the money? I dont know. I really want to fly, but I dont know how ill fit it all in. I know i have to get my priorities straight. So, unfortunatly it will be school over flying for the time being. Say after uni i try to fly, but im working a full time job, while maybe juggling trying to make a family. I dont know... (wow, i think i have carpel tunnel, its the most ive written in my life)
Evan, of course 4 years is a long time for you. You're 16 bloody years old. That's 25% of your life!!! I can tell you straight up that the industry doesn't cycle once every 4 years, so don't worry. September 11th slowed things down. The industry is regenerating itself, and combined with the (I hate to agree with the flight schools for once) retirements that are coming up, things are going to be looking good over the forseeable future. And of course University and Flying School seems like something of an unsurmountable task, but again... you're in grade 10. Of course this seems daunting. Just take a deep breath and don't let it overwhelm you. University in the Fall & Spring, Flying while working full time in the Summers. Working full time will pay for your school (Construction will pay you $16/hour as a labourer with as much overtime as you can handle), and student loan the rest if you need to. Be careful who you talk to about it. Instructors get paid little and are out of their houses lots. Cargo pilots work thankless jobs, fly clapped out airplanes, and paid like crap. But if you talk to Borek Captains, CMA Captains, AC or Westjet pilots, Pasco guys... they'll most likely speak quite highly of the industry. Don't get discouraged. You've got a long way to go before you need to make any final decisions. Have fun in highschool. You might miss it when you're out.
Shankdown
Shankdown
dear Evan, i think you are at the right age to become a pilot.
You are so young and by the time you will 22-24 (6-8 years from now) the industry will be clean of all of us or almost.
There are lots of broken people y this industry and by the time they will start to hire again i think they will choose to hire younger people like you.
I wish i was 16 now.
You are right , right now, every is not good, but maybe in the future things will be different.
Maybe better or maybe worse, but i think better.
Keep always a backup just in case...
You are so young and by the time you will 22-24 (6-8 years from now) the industry will be clean of all of us or almost.
There are lots of broken people y this industry and by the time they will start to hire again i think they will choose to hire younger people like you.
I wish i was 16 now.
You are right , right now, every is not good, but maybe in the future things will be different.
Maybe better or maybe worse, but i think better.
Keep always a backup just in case...
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justplanecrazy
- Rank 8
- Posts: 815
- Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 1:57 pm
Hey Evan,
If you really want to fly forget about the business degree. I know a ton of people that have a business degree and find it worthless. I'd suggest you switch you're major into an Aviation degree. Not only will it make you stand out above the hundreds of other people with a flying club CPL but it'll also give you a degree and a licence at the same time. Sure the licence will end up being a fair bit more costly but you end up being able to hit the streets and work for a crappy wage but still a wage, way sooner than trying to complete both. Also, the uni's will often provide job opportunities that clubs can't.
A lot of jobs out there just require a degree without specifying the major. People want to know that you're smart whether it be aviation or business. If you want a real back-up education go into something specific like engineering, computer programing, or a trade. Take something where you actually learn a specific skill not just how an industry works. Trust me, I know... I made that mistake myself.
If you really want to fly forget about the business degree. I know a ton of people that have a business degree and find it worthless. I'd suggest you switch you're major into an Aviation degree. Not only will it make you stand out above the hundreds of other people with a flying club CPL but it'll also give you a degree and a licence at the same time. Sure the licence will end up being a fair bit more costly but you end up being able to hit the streets and work for a crappy wage but still a wage, way sooner than trying to complete both. Also, the uni's will often provide job opportunities that clubs can't.
A lot of jobs out there just require a degree without specifying the major. People want to know that you're smart whether it be aviation or business. If you want a real back-up education go into something specific like engineering, computer programing, or a trade. Take something where you actually learn a specific skill not just how an industry works. Trust me, I know... I made that mistake myself.
We have no effective screening methods to make sure pilots are sane.
— Dr. Herbert Haynes, Federal Aviation Authority.
— Dr. Herbert Haynes, Federal Aviation Authority.
Well, I know that I have a skill at business, I am good at it. Other than flying, thats the only other feild in which i might be happy. Doesnt an aviation degree only help if im in aviation? What if at 500 hours or w/e i decide that I want to do something else, i have business degree and i can go into automotive as a manager or w/e. Im not 100% certain on this, but if I was air canada, and I saw a guy with a business degree over a guy with an aviation diploma, with the same amount of hours. i would pick the business degree because the have the same amount of experience in a plane, but he went to uni, which is harder that college. Plus you can hire internally if you need a manger or w/e. Btw, im 17, in grade 11, not to be picky 
