Need AME help with my F1 Reno racer

[ScottHolmes]

Working on my Cassutt racer rebuild and plan to race it next year.

I need some help with some parts and will also ultimately need someone to do the annuals and signoffs. Are there any AME's in Edmonton that would be interested in joining a new F1 Reno air racing team? It would be volunteer only.

PM me if interested.

Scott Holmes

[flatface]

Deleted

[ScottHolmes]

What release are you referring to?

[bombardierfixer]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8E_zMLCRNg

[conehead]

The only release an AME would sign is a Maintenance Release for the aircraft after whatever work you want done, for which he WILL be responsible for. I think you should ignore Flatface, he is just stirring up s**t.

[crazy_aviator]

AME s working on their own ( not under an AMO umbrella) can and do buy liability insurance ( IF you think a dentist or a doctor doesnt have gold plated liability protections ,, your NUTS )
Anyways, said policies cost $$$. A VOLUNTEER modifying an engine , to be flown in a high risk sport exposes him/herself to much higher risk. Personally, i wouldnt touch this plane without $100.00/hr AND being worked on within an AMO + a liability disclaimer for the reasons just mentioned ,,,,, The rate is to pay, in part, the insurance premium . CONEHEAD, maybe that happened to you when the birth canal was too small for your head ? BTW Conehead, ive been flying and signing off hundreds of aircraft for over 29 years WITHOUT incident or court appearance etc whatsoever.

[Heliian]

Most AMO's won't touch that kind of a/c anyways. The guy just wants some skilled help for his racer from someone as enthusiastic as he is.

[AirFrame]

I think the Cassut is an amateur-built... The AME won't be signing it off, the owner will.

[GA MX Trainer Dude]

Think very carefully about your liability as stated by those above!!!

If you don't think it can happen to you then read this link. The part about the 2011 accident is brutal. Someone doing maintenance messed up!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gallop ... ircraft%29



Regards,

Mx

[ahramin]

As often happens lots of posts from people who have no knowledge of what they are posting about.

These aircraft are all homebuilts. Scott is not looking for someone to sign maintenance releases, he's looking for crew for his race team. For people with the time, money, and aviation passion air races are an amazingly fun sport. If however you are the sort of person who walks around all day worried about what the lawyers are going to do you if you look the wrong way entering a building, you probably don't want to get involved in air racing. Or car racing. Or water skiing. Maybe bridge? Maybe not, they usually serve coffee and it might be too hot.

[ScottHolmes]

Ahramin is correct. My airplane is experimental which enables me to work on it myself. I do however need an AME to sign off the annual.

Also correct is racers get abused and pushed to operating conditions far beyond what a 152 will ever see. Because of this, they make great learning opportunities for someone to learn how parts fail and when they fail. I thought someone who works on aircraft as a career may want to capitalize on this.

I on the other hand do not have formal maintenance training and have never done things like re-time mags. I was hoping that someone would be enthusiastic enough to be willing to teach me.

Thanks
Scott

[GA MX Trainer Dude]

ahramin

As often happens lots of posts from people who have no knowledge of what they are posting about.

I guess that would also apply to yourself.

I was involved with a Cassutt Racer back in the 1970s' - they are a lot of fun to fly - not so much to maintain. I presume it is still the same class - max 200CID engine etc.

I have also been around P51s' and a few other big rumblies in my time!!
I have also been involved with Motor Bike racing, auto racing, boat racing, and building V8 engines that turn 12,000 RPM - ad nauseum!!

I don't play cards - especially Bridge - way to boring - hot coffee doesn't scare me at all.

I really would have appreciated a forum like this one back when I was young and stupid and everything about aviation was exciting.

I would have learned a lot from some of the posts that show up here at times. The biggest one being "TRUST NO ONE IN THIS INDUSTRY". I have been lied to by the best - ridden hard and put away wet way too often - all because I had a passion for fixing aircraft!!

Passion is still there - but is controlled now - a lot of hard lessons learned along the way that could have been avoided by some simple info from those who have "BEEN THERE AND DONE THAT"!!

I am "An Old F@rt", but I got to be old because I was a quick learner and listened to others. I have done a lot in 40 years in the industry - never hurt or killed anyone - but some of the decisions I have made have cost me because I have always been a professional first - even when employers/others haven't been.

My advice to anyone in this industry is to "KNOW EXACTLY WHAT YOU ARE GETTING INTO!!!!"

If no one brings up the negative side of things then unsuspecting people are going to walk into something that they have no idea about the risks involved. Oldies like myself have an obligation to bring these things up and forewarn those about to embark upon a journey that might just have some dire consequences down the road - and if you think aviation turns quickly on those found wanting you had better think carefully about how fast the lawyers can slap paper on you!! Be aware of the lawyers - ALWAYS!!

Hopefully whoever takes this position will now do so with a lot more information than nothing being said.

Regards,

Mx

[ahramin]

Mx, before you get all huffy and start whipping out anatomy parts to make sure everyone knows that yours are the biggest around, consider that not every statement made by everyone is about you, even the derogatory ones .

Now ask yourself: would you know the things you know now if you hadn't done the things you've done? Trying to go through life without anything ever going wrong is not only impossible, it's boring. We can certainly learn from others, but can you really become an expert at anything without making any mistakes of your own? Do you really think that the best course of action for someone passionate about airplane races is for them to realize the potential liability and then walk away?

Where would all the good advice from the old guys come from if the old guys had gone through their whole lives without getting into anything they didn't know everything about before they started?

[AirFrame]

Ahramin is correct. My airplane is experimental which enables me to work on it myself. I do however need an AME to sign off the annual.

Can I ask a silly question? Is this because the plane is a US-reg plane, or for some other reason? I'm just curious whether there's an amateur-built category that I haven't heard of in Canada where you need an AME to sign things off for you.

[GA MX Trainer Dude]

ahramin

Do you really think that the best course of action for someone passionate about airplane races is for them to realize the potential liability and then walk away?

No I really think that the best course is for someone to "Know exactly what they are getting into" and then decide with full knowledge of the risks if they want to continue or walk away.

Read my posts - no where have I said not to do this!!!! What I have said is that if you are going to do this then do your homework first regarding all of the possible outcomes. There are many ways to learn something - and from the sound of what you have written - you will most likely be learning them the hard way - some of us can shorten that learning curve by listening to what others have done and what their experiences are.

As for gaining experience by doing things and making mistakes - my take on that is the doing gives you the experience but there are ways that are nicer to learn about human behavior than working with some ego-maniac with a "Who Gives A Crap" outlook or undertaking something without thinking through all of the possible outcomes before.

The aircraft class we are talking about here has been around since the 1950s' - has been pushed as hard as it could be - and to be competitive will have to run at the ragged edge of the existing technology. Sometimes you can build a better mousetrap - other times all you do is break things. And in this racing class they have already broken everything possible.

In an nutshell " The technical experience that I developed could have been done within normal aviation activities. The learning about how humans work came at a higher cost and was not worth the aggravation. YMMV

As for the comment about "Whipping out anatomy parts" ; you need to grow up my friend.

I hope Scott finds someone who is prepared to do this from a fully informed position - and I wish him the best on the race course.

Regards,

Mx

[crazy_aviator]

The galloping ghost thread is a good example of human error having tragic consequences when dealing with the limits of a technology.The fact was that the A/P Mechanic FAILED to properly inspect the aircraft and the fastener was REUSED in a critical location ( should have been a castellated nut ? ) IF your going to be at the limits , best to get an EXPERIENCED and highly disciplined mechanic, and IF you have to pay this person, its cheaper than a funeral and lawyers expences. GA MX, Excellent mature post BTW

[AirFrame]

The fact was that the A/P Mechanic FAILED to properly inspect the aircraft and the fastener was REUSED in a critical location ( should have been a castellated nut ? )

Without derailing this too far (hopefully) that's not the root cause of the Ghost crash. They overloaded the fastener because they locked one trim tab out and relied on a single trim tab to do the work of two... Doubling the load on the fastener in the first place. It wasn't the first P-51 at Reno to blow a trim tab that had been re-configured this way.

[KISS_MY_TCAS]

What GA_MX was getting at is the fact that the OP was looking for volunteer time on a restricted category highly modified airframe flying in a high risk environment and didn't want someone unknowing to get in over their head. A lot of lower time AMEs may look at the proposition and jump in head first without realizing the potential liability issues involved in such an endeavor based on the "cool" factor. As a senior AME, its "pay to play" which is what GA_MX was likely alluding to. You want free help, you get what you pay for. You want knowledgeable experienced help, it will cost you to realize your dream and it won't be cheap. I will throw my hat in the ring, $95/hour on annual plus repair with no book time (not that there is published book time on an amatuer built) plus paid travel, meals and accommodation in Reno plus 10% of any purse won by racing. And in my mind that's a screaming good deal. Let the bidding wars begin, pilot dreams are not AME dreams.

[Pat Richard]

What GA_MX was getting at is the fact that the OP was looking for volunteer time on a restricted category highly modified airframe flying in a high risk environment and didn't want someone unknowing to get in over their head. A lot of lower time AMEs may look at the proposition and jump in head first without realizing the potential liability issues involved in such an endeavor based on the "cool" factor. As a senior AME, its "pay to play" which is what GA_MX was likely alluding to. You want free help, you get what you pay for. You want knowledgeable experienced help, it will cost you to realize your dream and it won't be cheap. I will throw my hat in the ring, $95/hour on annual plus repair with no book time (not that there is published book time on an amatuer built) plus paid travel, meals and accommodation in Reno plus 10% of any purse won by racing. And in my mind that's a screaming good deal. Let the bidding wars begin, pilot dreams are not AME dreams.

[Cat Driver]

I have a bit of experience in the air display business both wrenching and flying.

Yes it is a high risk type of flying and the risk can be as high as someone losing their life ......so far I have not heard of any AME sitting in the pit area dying when the airplane crashed.

[crazy_aviator]

If that AME in the pit area was part of the chain leading to death ( trying to get too much power out of the 0-200 ? ) That AME might want to be dead anyways

[GA MX Trainer Dude]

I ran across this today!!! Is pretty funny.

http://www.shmoop.com/careers/aircraft-mechanic/

Read through to the last page - And try not to Laugh Tooooooooo Much!!!!!!!!


Regards,

Mx

[Strega]

What GA_MX was getting at is the fact that the OP was looking for volunteer time on a restricted category highly modified airframe flying in a high risk environment and didn't want someone unknowing to get in over their head. A lot of lower time AMEs may look at the proposition and jump in head first without realizing the potential liability issues involved in such an endeavor based on the "cool" factor. As a senior AME, its "pay to play" which is what GA_MX was likely alluding to. You want free help, you get what you pay for. You want knowledgeable experienced help, it will cost you to realize your dream and it won't be cheap. I will throw my hat in the ring, $95/hour on annual plus repair with no book time (not that there is published book time on an amatuer built) plus paid travel, meals and accommodation in Reno plus 10% of any purse won by racing. And in my mind that's a screaming good deal. Let the bidding wars begin, pilot dreams are not AME dreams.

This my friend is why you will never crew a race team......

[Cat Driver]

Another slant on this Strega, is how many race fans would pay to sit and watch an AME work on the race plane?

In most discussions about aviation I tend to side with the mechanics because I feel fixing them is more difficult than flying them....but.....when it comes to air shows and air races the pilots are who we pay to watch.

I am comfortable with expressing my opinion on this because I have done both jobs in the air show business...for many years.

[DonutHole]

I have experience crewing on a rally racing team.

I found that in the stands the drivers were the aces, but int he pits, the mechanics were the ones who were worshipped.

There is a lot of talk about how little appreciation mechanics actually get, you get on a race team and you can really make a name for yourself if you are good.