keep failed the ppl school qualifying writtem Exam [PASSED]

[Shiny Side Up]

I suspect the exams have went to their current format because of what pilotDAR mentioned:

and candidates who would accept the outcome without complaint,

I can only imagine the nightmare of being an inspector who had to read through written answers and grade accordingly. Not to mention the ammount of times people would try to dispute your judgement given how many feel they have a right to fly airplanes and feel any testing process unfairly discriminates against them.

[photofly]

And if you think multiple choice discriminates against non-native English speakers, try freeform exams.

[altiplano]

I guess I understand you better...

Not likely, and by the sounds of it, probably not any more than you understand how your airplane works either. Given your level of reading comprehension, I can see where you would have had trouble with the written tests though.

So now you are going to insult me because I disagree with you and don't think loving flying or navigating a TC PPL exam makes you better at understanding it? I actually agree with much of what you said - it's important to have a well rounded skillset in this job, but getting ready for TC exams doesn't make that skillset or make you effective in applying it. And you choose insults - C'mon... you are smarter than that, aren't you?

Tell you what, I think I still have my ATPL test result sheets tucked away somewhere - you show me yours I'll show you mine. Want to put a case of beer down on it? I did well on them because I thrive on excelling at everything I set to, not because I love theory. And I understand my aircraft just fine and learn more every day out because I like doing my job well, not because I love flying, I like it just fine, but that's it.

[altiplano]

To the OP - Sorry for the thread hijack. Just keep studying hard, and do your best. That's the best advice. Have faith too and don't get down over it - you learn more and more the longer you're in this business and some years down the line you'll see how small a drop this hurdle is in the scope of what you will learn through your flying career. Good luck.

[Shiny Side Up]

So now you are going to insult me because I disagree with you

Hold on there, you decided that game was to be played first, I'm not sure how else I could interpret this delivery when I politely disagreed with you:

If you think quoting the theory, childhood dreams and hanging 737 models from your ceiling is what brings success... I guess I understand you better...

So if we can put this aside, and if you wish to debate again, lets carry on. If I might, I don't think you're getting what I'm after here so I will continue to make my point. Lets start out where we agree.

I actually agree with much of what you said - it's important to have a well rounded skillset in this job, but getting ready for TC exams doesn't make that skillset or make you effective in applying it.

I would say to that one must remember the purpose of the exams, they're not to be prepared for as an end to themselves. Much as PilotDAR has put forth. The exams are only to verify that you have worked on the appropriate skillsets that are crucial to aviating safely. My point being if one treats those skills that one is supposed to be learning only as a means to get through the exam, then one is missing the point of the training. Advocating that everything before them is solely prep for them just plain isn't the case. Its unfortunate that the exams - and the flight tests - have almost become beasts unto themselves, which is increasing this train of thought amongst both pilots, instructors and schools. Our OP is somewhat evidence of this, one gets the feeling that for him, learning skills that will help him be a good pilot have become disconnected from what he perceives he must do to pass a test.

you show me yours I'll show you mine.

I don't have one. Which I suppose the knowledge of will be worthy of more derision from you.

[altiplano]

I'm sorry you feel I was making fun of you. My comment wasn't directed at you or intended to describe you, just trying to lightheartedly evoke images of an aviation geek who would do better on exams than another average individual who chose to pursue flying.

I would say to that one must remember the purpose of the exams, they're not to be prepared for as an end to themselves. Much as PilotDAR has put forth. The exams are only to verify that you have worked on the appropriate skillsets that are crucial to aviating safely. My point being if one treats those skills that one is supposed to be learning only as a means to get through the exam, then one is missing the point of the training. Advocating that everything before them is solely prep for them just plain isn't the case. Its unfortunate that the exams - and the flight tests - have almost become beasts unto themselves, which is increasing this train of thought amongst both pilots, instructors and schools. Our OP is somewhat evidence of this, one gets the feeling that for him, learning skills that will help him be a good pilot have become disconnected from what he perceives he must do to pass a test.

.
That's why I think you just have to put your nose down and get them done. There is too much to learn in becoming a professional pilot that has little relevance to what the tc exam prep will prepare you for. It shouldn't distract your. focus from the broader skillset and more practical knowledge base you have to acquire and will develop through your training and your career. The TC exams aren't the goal of training, they are a thing that need to be navigated to reach your goal.

Maybe we would agree more in person... Internet message boards suck... Sorry if I called you a geek... No hard feelings.

[Beefitarian]

It's not just an internet thing either.

Check out what happened with the Wright brothers. They were buddies with that guy (Maybe George Langely?) hanging out trying to make better airplanes. Going to the club for Red Bull and Vodkas.

Then they started reading newspapers and wrote some letters back and forth, BOOM! Mortal enemies, "You shouldn't have wrote that."
"Oh yeah, well you're a dick."
"Suck it newb!"
"Orville's reporting you to the mods."
"Mod edit for profanity." Etc.
I might have paraphrased those a bit but, it was sort of like that.

Writing is bad, here, hundred year old letters, hieroglyphs or Transport Canada tests.

Unfortunately those tests have to get done to be licensed. You guys know Leo's trying to get his private right now also, right?

[Shiny Side Up]

It shouldn't distract your focus from the broader skillset and more practical knowledge base you have to acquire and will develop through your training and your career.

You're right, the exams shouldn't detract from learning what one needs that will make one a good pilot. I've often wondered how training might be different if we just sprung said exams on pilots with zero exam preparation, so they could only use what they've really learned up to that point. If we made the words "you need to know this for the test" completely absent from training. I know those words are frequently used by instructors to convince students they need to put effort into knowing certain subjects, usually as a crutch (and I'll admit to being guilty of it too in moments of frustration). I wish every pilot could see past the procedure for testing to the point where knowing stuff is what is going to make themselves a proficient pilot.

Looking through a sample of what people have gotten wrong on the written portion, we find stuff like this:

Examination questions which were related to the following were answered incorrectly.

- Calculate weight and balance
- Explain the effects of a blocked pitot system
- Identify possible causes of high oil temperature
- Recall procedures associated with Class C airspace
- Recall altimeter errors
- Recall characteristics of a spin
- Identify factors which reduce aircraft performance
- Recall the hazards of thuderstorms
- Recall the significance of temperature dewpoint spread in METAR

Now I can think of someone getting killed or bending metal related to each of those pieces of knowledge. One must wonder if the pilot in each of those incidents had sufficient knowledge of said subject matter - more so than maybe even was required just to get through the written exam. It really relates to the attitudes that are taken towards training. While I do agree that one needs to get through a test, if one is having a lot of problems with testing then they really should look at why they are having said problems, rather than find a solution to "just get by". This is what our OP needs to look at (and others in his situation) to complete their training rather than get through it.

edit: As an instructor I keep copies of these test results students get. While on one side it would be nice if TC listed the exact question the student got wrong so one could pinpoint the error they made, I can see in someways how this might be counterproductive since the goal of some is just to memorize test questions and answers like many "test prep" courses tend to do. A wrong answer like "Explain the effects of a blocked pitot system" should really invite a good ammount of discussion between instructor and student to explore the real workings of such a system to promote a more solid understanding of it rather than a "next time make sure you answer 'b'".

[leo_ding]

I have been study from ground up in last couple days.. I have to admit.. I did learn a lot of things from that book.. I was barely read that.

I learned a lot whatever for PPL exam or to be a better pilot..

I would keep doing that . and My retest will be place soon.. hope I could able to pass

[Shiny Side Up]

I have been study from ground up in last couple days.. I have to admit.. I did learn a lot of things from that book.. I was barely read that.

As an aside, I figure that there must be thousands of pristine copies of that book in its various editions scattered all over this country. So many bought by new students, so few actually looked at. There is litteraly everything you need to know about flying in that book, well nearly everything. At least everything a new pilot should know. If I started charging a fee for removing the plastic wrapper from FTGUs, well, I'd have a lot of money. I swear, every time a student has a problem with a question and says "I couldn't find anything in all my stuff about this" its either in the FTGU or the FTM. They didn't miss anything.

[cap41]

I guess it depends where your taught. I was taught that FTGU is practically our bible. I think i actually went through 2-3 highlighters on it. Still read it. It answers all my questions.

[Chuck Ellsworth]

FTGU was the only textbook I read when I got my PPL in 1953.

[Old Dog Flying]

.: That is because when you and I trained, FTGU was the only book available..I had a 1948 edition.

Barney

[Chuck Ellsworth]

Barney, a lot of instructors here keep telling us we were poorly trained in the early fifties, do you think we were?

What really puzzles me is we learned on the Fleet Canuck and according to a top instructor on this forum the Fleet Canuck is to high risk an airplane to train on because there are no brakes on the right side.

So if we were so poorly trained how come we never wrecked a Fleet Canuck when we were instructors training pilots on them?

[Old Dog Flying]

Very good question .. We flew basic aircraft with no electrical system, no radio, no GPS and yes no brakes on the instructors side and gasp..they were taildraggers. We did our cross country solo trips with a paper chart and a pre determined set of data which we had to figure out for ourselves...and didn't get lost

And if we did not open the friggin' books, the shit hit the fan. And we did PP course all in 30 hours total flying time. In later years our students also learned in the same aircraft and in the same manner...study like hell or don't waste my time! This thread sez spoon feeding all the way.

Barney

[Chuck Ellsworth]

Remember how we had to be proficient in recovery from unusual attitudes using only the airspeed / turn and bank and altimeter and to ensure we couldn't peek out from under a hood we used two stage amber as a outside vision blocking device before we could qualify for the CPL?

Yet many claim our era was lacking in proper training and we wrecked airplanes at a high rate compared to the better trained pilots of today.

Go figure.

[photofly]

I forgot - which of you two is which?

[Shiny Side Up]

I guess it depends where your taught. I was taught that FTGU is practically our bible. I think i actually went through 2-3 highlighters on it. Still read it. It answers all my questions.

It still is, people just don't like to read. I had one student tell me there was no way for him to learn this since it wasn't available in a digital format. Was like he didn't know how to flip pages or something. Before anyone says something about kids, this guy was in his fifties with a masters degree. Strange stuff, said he couldn't believe flight training was so "primitive". The point is, nothing's changed with training, but there's a large cultural shift against just tried and true methods. People think there's an alternative to just getting into the books.

[Old Dog Flying]

Photofly: I'm the good looking one!

." And we had to do a 3 turn spin with entry and exit on the same heading. As for the limited panel, my last two students for the PPL trained on a Fleet Canuck with only the basic three and they both turned out just great even having to do the 5 hours of instruments on limited panel. Both are gainfully employed as pilots and I keep track of them on a regular basis.

Neil and Gary..behave yourselves

Barney

[leo_ding]

thanks for guys posted..

update: after I took lot of time read though the from ground up book,I finialy passed the school one and TC one..

got mark 81..

[Colonel Sanders]

Congratulations! Remember success is a result
of 99% persistence and 1% genius

[Beefitarian]

Atta boy Leo. I got a pass no recollection of the mark. I just squeaked by on met.

[New_PIC]

Congratulations Leo! Remember to keep on learning too, but for now you've earned a bit of celebration.

[JungianJugular]

Congratulations, my friend!

[moocow]

I have been study from ground up in last couple days.. I have to admit.. I did learn a lot of things from that book.. I was barely read that.

I learned a lot whatever for PPL exam or to be a better pilot..

I would keep doing that . and My retest will be place soon.. hope I could able to pass

First congrats on passing. Second, what kind of materials were you studying before hand? Was the book part of your ground school kit?