WestJet earns $44.7 million in second quarter

[wjhr]

There are a lot more airlines than those two growing! I wasn't specific to airline, but here is a recent example what I would call the opposite.

http://transat.mediaroom.com/2013-06-13 ... -this-year

http://ir.flyjazz.ca/phoenix.zhtml?c=19 ... highlight=

These are a couple examples of hunkering down. There are others like Calm air etc. too. I'm not against anyone, but really if you think about it, they are trying like heck to hunker down for the future or adjust to the ever changing market. For what reason? AC felt the change to get to growth in a big way too you have to admit! We all know the reasons why too. My whole point is costs and business plans when I posted that.

Fair enough?

[DH772]

There are a lot more airlines than those two growing! I wasn't specific to airline, but here is a recent example what I would call the opposite.

http://transat.mediaroom.com/2013-06-13 ... -this-year

http://ir.flyjazz.ca/phoenix.zhtml?c=19 ... highlight=

These are a couple examples of hunkering down. There are others like Calm air etc. too. I'm not against anyone, but really if you think about it, they are trying like heck to hunker down for the future or adjust to the ever changing market. For what reason? AC felt the change to get to growth in a big way too you have to admit! We all know the reasons why too. My whole point is costs and business plans when I posted that.

Fair enough?

Fair enough? No not really. Very poor example in my opinion. Neglecting the true facts as to why is Jazz "hunkering down" you're still comparing apples to oranges here. You want to compare Jazz to Encore who is already a very matured company, that has little to no control in its future growth and is facing significant pressures to decrease its cost structures because of non unionized companies providing work for much cheaper and companies like Encore paying pilots over 30% less than Jazz. Encore is a new untapped market for WJ that has LOTS of rooms for expansion and very deep pockets to ensure its success. You see the irony in this?

WJHR talk to me in 20 years when Encore has matured as a company, has very little control in its growth plans and then we'll go ahead and compare expansion to "hunkering down"

Cheers

[wjhr]

It is apples to oranges! Let's hope it stays that way! That was my point in the first place!
Here's to 20 more years!

[truedude]

wjhr, you are either very naive or incredibly ignorant. Using mature airlines as an example when comparing to a start-up is never a fair comparison. It isn't apples to oranges, so much as it is a difference in time. These airlines are "hunkering down" not because of any failed business plan, but because certain players in the market can exploit the times to their advantage and undercut their costs. But if the success of your business plan is based solely on the fact that you can pay your employees a despicable wage, then it is doomed to enviably fail--particularly with how the pilot group has been so passive about how it has been setup. The mistakes experienced by other pilot groups in the past will once more repeat as growth slows to a near halter. And if you think Westjet will somehow escape the eventuality of zero growth that no company on the face of the planet has ever been able to avoid, then you have truly sunk into the abyss of "group think".

The growth Westjet has seen over the past two decades will eventually come to an end--it is inevitable. Further expansion will come largely at the expense of the mainline as Encore continues to grow. The moral at Encore among the front end crew will remain "Spunky" right up until movement to mainline slows to a mere trickle. When that happens Encore pilots will demand more money--if the pool of available pilots who will work for that disgusting wage hasn't already dried up long before then. In the meantime Wesjet management will continue to come to the pilot group, among others, and tell them if they are to remain competitive they need to work ever harder, because that once great cost advantage has shrunk as others have been forced to slash wages in an effort to compete. Already, they are asking the pilot group to extend their current "Contract" while at the same time work an extra day--all mere months after one of the greatest perks to working for Westjet was abolished (ports) without so much as even a discussion. It is difficult to imagine how the pilot group will ever again be able to negotiate a pay raise. Because when they try, the company will gleefully point out that they are expensive and Encore is cheap. It is very hard to justify asking for an uplift when your pay is already far above that of other groups--particularly ones already under your own roof and capable of doing much of the flying that you currently do. And with no defined scope to protect what you currently have--at lest nothing that would stand up in court--the flying can be transferred at the drop of a pin.

It is a fine mess to be sure, but it isn't cause to celebrate. Wages and working conditions throughout this industry will be impacted because of it, and not for the better. It is really quite sad that you can come here and brag about the destruction caused by this little venture as if it is somehow a good thing--with others all too ready to fall in line behind you beating the same drum. It is proof that pilots as a group will never learn.

And around and around we go.

[wjhr]

Would you guys drop the bragging piece! If you are taking it as that, then grow some. I'm not bragging.
I don't disagree that westjet will reach a limit but there is lots of room yet. Maybe a tier 3 or some big planes! That's a few years away yet I think! I'm only providing some answers about encore for questions asked. that's a lot of other stuff there too! Face it, attacking me or complaining about it on AV Canada isn't going to change a thing is it? Nite.

[altiplano]

I hope you aren't really HR @ WS because you sound more like a corporate shill than a professional on the forums to answer questions. Maybe that's just your "culture" though.

[brooks]

Tell Harper to lower the damn fees and taxes and maybe airlines could afford paying the employees more. But if you love airports like Vancouver with expensive museum like structures in them like waterfalls and million dollar canoes etc. then keep paying the $30 AIF, and all. It adds up! Small part of the problem but its a problem none the less.

[neophyte]

I am not a business type but I am of the impression that growth at WJ mainline is winding down for the time being. For example, when the winter schedule was released there were no new destinations, just increased frequency and a few new city pairings.

In the past there used to be talk of low hanging fruit. It is inevitable that the easy pickings will disappear and only the higher fruit will remain. Wide bodies would change this but if and when they come is another discussion for another thread.

You cannot call encore or a tier 3 as WestJet growth can you? After all they are/will be separate entities.

[rudder]

Every winter SW adds more and more capacity. The winter southern destinations operated by WJ on behalf of WJ Vacations and Thomas Cook have fuelled WJ capacity growth for the past 4 years. And now AC Rouge is here supposedly with lower costs and that means more aggressive pricing to southern destinations in the winter. Oh and don't forget the airTransat 737-800's that will be on line in June 2014. It will be interesting to see who blinks.

[CAL]

I hope you aren't really HR @ WS because you sound more like a corporate shill than a professional on the forums to answer questions. Maybe that's just your "culture" though.

Finally somebody said it....

[wjhr]

fine, I'll stop posting bullies

[justwork]

fine, I'll stop posting bullies

You're posting bullies?

[flyer 1492]

I love how wjhr is starting to talk about a tier 3 operation, while Encore is just getting started. Not only is the flow thru not written in INK, upper management is already thinking that Encore is TOO expensive. And the downward spiral continues...

Flyer

[JLA]

The return of CMA as a Tier 3 operator, 40k for a 1900 captain!

[wjhr]

Yikes!
It was just a thought on tier 3!
As someone much wiser once said:
Forum: General Comments Topic: My "Career Plan"
altiplano
[ Jump to post ] Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2005 10:55 pm

Replies: 22
Views: 3824

Maybe you should reconsider Air Cadets... Do you want a free PPL or not?

Also, I would consider adjusting your attitude because you're going to encounter a lot of "friken immature" people with "attitude problems" in this industry. You'll need to deal with them, get used to it.

Anyway, I'm not sure why the attacks and all from AC/Jazz types. I can only assume, but I would hate to see what that brings out if I had an opinion!
Over and Out!

[altiplano]

Yikes!
It was just a thought on tier 3!
As someone much wiser once said:
Forum: General Comments Topic: My "Career Plan"
altiplano
[ Jump to post ] Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2005 10:55 pm

Replies: 22
Views: 3824

Maybe you should reconsider Air Cadets... Do you want a free PPL or not?

Also, I would consider adjusting your attitude because you're going to encounter a lot of "friken immature" people with "attitude problems" in this industry. You'll need to deal with them, get used to it.

Anyway, I'm not sure why the attacks and all from AC/Jazz types. I can only assume, but I would hate to see what that brings out if I had an opinion!
Over and Out!

the quote from this thread viewtopic.php?f=54&t=7475

Maybe you should reconsider Air Cadets... Do you want a free PPL or not?

Also, I would consider adjusting your attitude because you're going to encounter a lot of "friken immature" people with "attitude problems" in this industry. You'll need to deal with them, get used to it.

What does dragging up an 8 year old post I made in a completely different context telling a 14 year old wannabe to suck it up rather than drop out of flying have to do with anything? Are you saying I am attacking you? Inferring that I have an attitude problem? I simply expressed a belief that you lack credibility. And from the posts I see from others and the PMs I got after posting on this thread I see I am not the only one.

It had nada to do with your tier 3 musings but the way you post on this forum passing yourself off as a "professional" representing what I believed to be a fine airline with many fine people is an embarrassment to your organization, your colleagues, and all of our profession. Perhaps whoever your boss is should rein you in. Less is more. Then again, maybe it's just a culture thing and I will never get it.

[CanadaEH]

I think you guys should get over yourselves.

If you paint an entire airline on the basis of a single poster I wouldn't consider you much of a professional, either.

[13820]

I think you guys should get over yourselves.

WOW

Pot - kettle

[altiplano]

and as expected. lol

Thanks for the PM.

Carry on... I guess I could care less if WS office staff think posting drivel on forums is a productive use of time and represents their airline well.

I think you guys should get over yourselves.

If you paint an entire airline on the basis of a single poster I wouldn't consider you much of a professional, either.

Didn't paint an entire airline, as I said -"fine airline, many fine people"... this poster is just a joke and does them all a disservice.

[DH772]

So which is it? King Air people being hired and put in a seat or interviewing and put in the pool? Bit of a difference I think. I know 1900 guys in the pool for a couple months and Dash drivers going from walk through to hired in less than 2 weeks. I guess guys can sit in the pool and will get passed up as long as more experienced guys keep applying.

My mistake. Encore has hired 703 captain for q400 spot. Not in the pool. Been hired.