Going out on a limb here, but if you're having a personality conflict in a one crew plane, I'd say you've got some more serious issues to deal with.Don't know if you are in a one, two or many plane/crew environment.
Personality conflict in the cockpit
Moderators: sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, lilfssister, North Shore, I WAS Birddog
Things like this I can see happening all the time in this industry. These personality conflicts even happen on the ramp aswell as the cockpit...Its a tough spot since none of us even are flying. Apparently he knows everything there is to know about ramp work fresh outta flight school and about flying at 200hrs, even more than the instructors at company groundschools. It blows my mind...But what can the guys who bust their a#@ on the ramp and doin other crappy jobs do about it without getting themselves into trouble.....The advice I have given myself is to keep my trap shut and keep doin my job! But at the same time, I feel obligated to my company to have them realize what kind of guy is working for them, someone who potentially will be flying an airplane, dealing with customers, etc. He has the potential to turn into one of these Captains....But I guess it all starts on the ramp and if they don't see it then maybe I shouldn't either!
Why Fly Right Side Up, When You Can Fly Upside Down
I'm new in the right seat of the IFR world, but what pisses me off is when I'm the PNF and my capt. uses the radio to correct some communication I made that didn't meet with his approval. He'll get on the radio and say thanks to the FSS guy for closing the flight plan when I so absent mindedly forgot. It's the correction of things that aren't important to the safe conduct of the flight or clarity of a clearence that gets me. If I'm on the radio's, I'm on the radio's, If I'm flying, don't touch the controls. Barring any major lapse in conduct of course. I learn something from all my capts. but I'm not learning to be them. One day I'll be my own capt. a piece of all the captains I flew with.
These things happen in every line of work. From what i have seen in the aviation industry in my 3-4 years is that the training is overwhelmingly negative. As in you might get a good job from your OJI/Captain/ licensed AME etcd. but it is when you F$%k up that gets brought out and over anylized. Maybe thats why FSS and ATC are always so grumpy, being told over and over what they did wrong in our 6 checks a year, proficiency tests etc. I'm sure it's the same with Captain/FO interaction if you do something good well thats what is expected, on the flipside if you mess up he has to correct you. This is the reality where perfection is the only option otherwise people get dead and well thats a good thing in my mind.
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LostinRotation
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Not too sure if you meant it as it sounds but....I'm happy as hell your not my Capt. just to be surebigfssguy wrote:This is the reality where perfection is the only option otherwise people get dead and well thats a good thing in my mind.
-=0=LIR=0=-
Sometimes I think it's a shame when I get feelin' better when I'm feelin no pain.
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Mitch Cronin
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Personality conflicts are going to continue as long as we are a free society capable of expressing ourselves freely. Most of us can accept this and learn to co-exist but many cannot. I guess the only solution is that there is no solution, or at least no "magic pill" that will evaporate all conflicts. The only avenue most have is to document any and all experiences and meet with the complaintant, the chief pilot, management or hired experts and either resolve the problems or move on. A good swift kick in the ass or cuff on the side of the head is satisfying but very counterproductive and could lead to criminal charges.
I may not be very well informed on the subject but I have read where the first action a totalitarian regime takes when it attempts to control the masses is to control and prevent individual thoughts and actions. Everyone "follows the party line?"
What has me a bit concerned is the possibility of some kook, in the good old U.S of A where and when pilots carry guns, going off the deep end and "eliminating" once and for all his tormenter. It has already happened on a cargo DC 10.
I may not be very well informed on the subject but I have read where the first action a totalitarian regime takes when it attempts to control the masses is to control and prevent individual thoughts and actions. Everyone "follows the party line?"
What has me a bit concerned is the possibility of some kook, in the good old U.S of A where and when pilots carry guns, going off the deep end and "eliminating" once and for all his tormenter. It has already happened on a cargo DC 10.
The average pilot, despite the somewhat swaggering exterior, is very much capable of such feelings as love, affection, intimacy and caring.
These feelings just don't involve anyone else.
These feelings just don't involve anyone else.
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lilfssister
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Have to agee with Cap'n S&J (Again 
! Maybe there IS something wrong with me 
) and the Big Guy.
It would be great if everyone was perfect, even though we aren't. But it would be nice if at least everyone tried to get as close as they could to being there. Unfortunately there are always some who don't GAS.
! Maybe there IS something wrong with me ) and the Big Guy.It would be great if everyone was perfect, even though we aren't. But it would be nice if at least everyone tried to get as close as they could to being there. Unfortunately there are always some who don't GAS.
sorry for the confusion about my post, heck i was a Mine Engineer in my previous life not an english teacher......
Perfection is a standard we must all perform to, if we fail in this than there is a chance where people end up dead, I for one think this is a good thing.
There corrections made and to all the english teachers and my old one Mrs. Thingstad from HS. PLease accept my most humble apologies, sometimes my mind works faster than my fingers. Plus i go these big bloody sausages for fingers and the wee bitty keyboard.
Perfection is a standard we must all perform to, if we fail in this than there is a chance where people end up dead, I for one think this is a good thing.
There corrections made and to all the english teachers and my old one Mrs. Thingstad from HS. PLease accept my most humble apologies, sometimes my mind works faster than my fingers. Plus i go these big bloody sausages for fingers and the wee bitty keyboard.
[quote="bigfssguy"]if we fail in this than there is a chance where people end up dead, I for one think this is a good thing.
quote]
Man o man i am noooooo good at this writing thing. what i meant to say is,
"if we fail in this than there is a chance where people end up dead, i for one think perfection is a good thing"
Holy crow i gotta dust off the old "how not to make a brain fart" book. I thought i was over this debilatating disease better known as "Cranal Rectal Inversion Syndrome" but apparently not. Yet a thousand apolagies from your most humble FSS.
quote]
Man o man i am noooooo good at this writing thing. what i meant to say is,
"if we fail in this than there is a chance where people end up dead, i for one think perfection is a good thing"
Holy crow i gotta dust off the old "how not to make a brain fart" book. I thought i was over this debilatating disease better known as "Cranal Rectal Inversion Syndrome" but apparently not. Yet a thousand apolagies from your most humble FSS.
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Mitch Cronin
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Rubberbiscuit
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There are off course scenarios where the Captain is the incompetent one in the cockpit. This could be for many reason such as lack of: flying skill, decision making ability, self confidence or simply lack of experience or general knowlendge. I knew one gent that actually suffered from several of the above mentioned problems but still found himself in the left seat. What did he do? He behaved like a tyrant, talked down to all the F/O and used intimidation as a tool to prevent them from speaking up.
There is a big difference between being demanding and setting the bar high for your F/O's, as CNJ is talking about(I think) and treating them as worthless pieces of crap.
It seem to be the norm. The guys that are demeaning towards their F/O's or other co-workers are usually compensating for lacking in another deprtment so to speak. i.e, lack of confidence.
As for the original post. Some guy's are talkative others prefer peace and quiet. "Please", "thank you" and "i'm sorry" will not be found in any SOP's, and is not considered aviation termonology. We are professionals doing a job, it's not supper with the royal family!
We are all different, think differently often come up with different solutions to the same problem. Therefore CRM and SOP's and regulations are important tool's in removing a lot of questions and smooth things out.
I agree with taking him for coffee or lunch ask strait out if therre is any issues! A lot of the time frustration and animosity is built up between crewmembers and in the end it was just another case of misunderstanding!
There is a big difference between being demanding and setting the bar high for your F/O's, as CNJ is talking about(I think) and treating them as worthless pieces of crap.
It seem to be the norm. The guys that are demeaning towards their F/O's or other co-workers are usually compensating for lacking in another deprtment so to speak. i.e, lack of confidence.
As for the original post. Some guy's are talkative others prefer peace and quiet. "Please", "thank you" and "i'm sorry" will not be found in any SOP's, and is not considered aviation termonology. We are professionals doing a job, it's not supper with the royal family!
We are all different, think differently often come up with different solutions to the same problem. Therefore CRM and SOP's and regulations are important tool's in removing a lot of questions and smooth things out.
I agree with taking him for coffee or lunch ask strait out if therre is any issues! A lot of the time frustration and animosity is built up between crewmembers and in the end it was just another case of misunderstanding!
I totally agree with Cpt SnJ.
As for the matter, mentioned by the post above me, of a misunderstanding leading to animosity... well, that's possible but for me it will more than likely be a STANDARDS issue. Eventhough I am not yet flying (office/FA) I am in the line up waiting and I notice how some rampies are working. I also notice which ones have that "cut the corner" or "it's good enough" type of mentality. That drives me mad personally. I keep my mouth shut but I know that that type of thinking in the cockpit with regards to standards (SOPs, AFM etc) will cause friction to say the least. I may again have to keep my mouth shut because "who the hell am I -- just a newbie".
SnJ <==== I would like to find out if I understood your comment about doing a W&B before each flight (for example). If the books teach it one way and the real world operates another, how is a green F/O to know which standard to follow and which one to let go ? Is that not another personal preference for every CP and Captain ? Gray areas drive me nuts. If the book says to do a W&B for each flight I will do a W&B. If, for example, there was an accident and TC got involved... that W&B sure would come in handy to get the PIC's ass off the line now wouldn't it ? Please do elaborate as I find your comments quite enlightening. I appreciate your statements.
Regards,
350TT
As for the matter, mentioned by the post above me, of a misunderstanding leading to animosity... well, that's possible but for me it will more than likely be a STANDARDS issue. Eventhough I am not yet flying (office/FA) I am in the line up waiting and I notice how some rampies are working. I also notice which ones have that "cut the corner" or "it's good enough" type of mentality. That drives me mad personally. I keep my mouth shut but I know that that type of thinking in the cockpit with regards to standards (SOPs, AFM etc) will cause friction to say the least. I may again have to keep my mouth shut because "who the hell am I -- just a newbie".
SnJ <==== I would like to find out if I understood your comment about doing a W&B before each flight (for example). If the books teach it one way and the real world operates another, how is a green F/O to know which standard to follow and which one to let go ? Is that not another personal preference for every CP and Captain ? Gray areas drive me nuts. If the book says to do a W&B for each flight I will do a W&B. If, for example, there was an accident and TC got involved... that W&B sure would come in handy to get the PIC's ass off the line now wouldn't it ? Please do elaborate as I find your comments quite enlightening. I appreciate your statements.
Regards,
350TT
Capt. S&J:
I haven't posted here for a long time. Yes I am a lurker.
Your post about "please" not belonging on the flight deck is a complete pile of feces!! I have read your posts for a long time. You must be an incredibly good aviator to have such an attitude of superiority. To be so inflexible in your views and so intolerant of others must mean that you are the best of us all.....Or....
Happy skies
I haven't posted here for a long time. Yes I am a lurker.
Your post about "please" not belonging on the flight deck is a complete pile of feces!! I have read your posts for a long time. You must be an incredibly good aviator to have such an attitude of superiority. To be so inflexible in your views and so intolerant of others must mean that you are the best of us all.....Or....
Happy skies
"Hey pile it, you wanna hold my bottle?"
