Air Nootka Beaver missing near Tofino BC - Aug 16 2013

[stallfortime]

carb ice; trim problem; invisible terrain...

maintenance... what else... bird problem?

[pelmet]

carb ice; trim problem; invisible terrain...

maintenance... what else... bird problem?

meteorite

[All Sides]

carb ice; trim problem; invisible terrain...

maintenance... what else... bird problem?

OK I give up, what is invisible terrain????

[CpnCrunch]

So do you suggest some form of restriction, to prevent those types of planes from flying in regions where unexpected weather occurs?

Unexpected? Not sure what happened in this case, but pilots have a habit of bending "VFR" to suit their needs. In particular some pilots think it's fine to have zero forward visibility in cloud if you can see the trees below. I've been in this situation myself (sitting beside a highly experienced flight instructor no less, before I knew better), and we've seen a flight instructor on this forum saying he advocates doing the same thing and he thinks it's perfectly legal (it isn't). Also we see on Flying Wild Alasksa them apparently doing this as well.

http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/world ... story.html

“We had just started going over land when a tree loomed up in front of us, and it must have been the right wing that hit it. [The pilot] said: ‘Mayday, we’re going down'"

"It was foggy and drizzling as the plane took off."

[Beefitarian]

Fixing the pilots is possibly a separate issue. I am suggesting that in addition to a problem with pilots pushing the limits on weather. There are places where it can change very quickly.

Should VFR planes be restricted from flying there, or is it simply pilot error to depart when clouds could form?

[pelmet]

So do you suggest some form of restriction, to prevent those types of planes from flying in regions where unexpected weather occurs?

Unexpected? Not sure what happened in this case, but pilots have a habit of bending "VFR" to suit their needs. In particular some pilots think it's fine to have zero forward visibility in cloud if you can see the trees below. I've been in this situation myself (sitting beside a highly experienced flight instructor no less, before I knew better), and we've seen a flight instructor on this forum saying he advocates doing the same thing and he thinks it's perfectly legal (it isn't). Also we see on Flying Wild Alasksa them apparently doing this as well.

http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/world ... story.html

“We had just started going over land when a tree loomed up in front of us, and it must have been the right wing that hit it. [The pilot] said: ‘Mayday, we’re going down'"

"It was foggy and drizzling as the plane took off."

The stupidity once again of flying around VFR in crap weather in mountainous areas. Maybe the restrictions asked about above should be for the idiots found flying around in this crap. After 25,000 hours, you would think the PIC would have figured it out.

[Chuck Ellsworth]

“We had just started going over land when a tree loomed up in front of us, and it must have been the right wing that hit it. [The pilot] said: ‘Mayday, we’re going down'"

This statement does not make sense.

[stallfortime]

i will be very interested in the report once it comes out. Power settings, passenger interviews, any logs that survived the fire. Weights, maintenance, scheduling considerations. The weather already looks like a major factor.

[stallfortime]

i suspect, pelmet, that he had fair vfr over the peninsula but didn't expect to lose power. Cripes, if'n we lose THAT engine, we'll more'n likely be stuck up here all night...

[Chuck Ellsworth]

Anonymity gives some license to make statements that paints a lot of pilots with the same brush pelmet.

Maybe the restrictions asked about above should be for the idiots found flying around in this crap.

Are you saying that all us pilots who have flown sea planes on the west coast are idiots?

After 25,000 hours, you would think the PIC would have figured it out.

To bad you were not available to explain it all to him.

[Beefitarian]

Yeah ., that's wheat he meant. Moving along if possible.

There's no doubt some pilots (everyone on the west coast?) pushing bad weather in planes not properly equipped.

How much of it is simply a lack of respect for bad weather/flying equipment lacking the proper capabilities, versus weather changing too quickly for a flight to be completed?

[pelmet]

Maybe the restrictions asked about above should be for the idiots found flying around in this crap.

Are you saying that all us pilots who have flown sea planes on the west coast are idiots?

If that is how you have interpreted my statement, then you have misinterpreted. As you yourself said earlier...you have a friend holding for weather. No doubt, you did many times as well.

After 25,000 hours, you would think the PIC would have figured it out.

To bad you were not available to explain it all to him.

Never screw around with poor visibility and mountainous areas in VFR ops. I was always a wimp when it came to that kind of stuff and cancelled lots of flights. Sure I pushed some limits, most of us have and I have broken plenty of regs over the years. But climbing up into the cloud after the vis got to be too low and then continuing to destination on top or even in cloud for a while over flat terrain may have broken a few rules but did not break the rules of common sense in terms of actual increase in hazard.

When it came to the nearby mountainous areas where I operated small aircraft VFR, I never screwed around with marginal weather and terrain. I realize that floats do give more options if flying over water, but one should know their limits, especially in an unforgiving environment.

Of course different ops are different. In the old days, I had IFR instruments and instrument approach options if required, although icing is a consideration along with thunderstorms. I don't know how the typical Beaver is equipped but I suspect many don't consider a paved runway an option for an alternate course of action as many have no wheels. These days I fly some light aircraft not IFR equipped at all. The weather requirements just get that much higher.

[CpnCrunch]

“We had just started going over land when a tree loomed up in front of us, and it must have been the right wing that hit it. [The pilot] said: ‘Mayday, we’re going down'"

This statement does not make sense.

I take it to mean the pilot said the 'mayday' to the passengers when he hit the tree, rather than on the radio.

[xsbank]

Grey ghost. Drizzle, wet windshield, maybe the prop had just been serviced, low viz., bad surprise. Terrible way to end a long career.

I think the "mayday" call was probably his "tabernack!"

[cncpc]

“We had just started going over land when a tree loomed up in front of us, and it must have been the right wing that hit it. [The pilot] said: ‘Mayday, we’re going down'"

This statement does not make sense.

It makes sense in the context of a power loss prior to hitting the tree, as I'm sure you realize .. It is not uncommon for passengers in these circumstances to misplace in time the sequence of events. There is other information that the ELT was activated prior to the crash.

It takes some awful asshole to be calling a dead pilot an idiot without knowing the exact circumstances of what would have happened in this sad accident. Thanks for speaking up for decent people.

[cncpc]

Pelmet....leave me out of this.

Let me correct that. You're fine Doc. Keep it up.

Pelmet, shut your ignorant cakehole and take yourself out of this.

[Chuck Ellsworth]

It makes sense in the context of a power loss prior to hitting the tree, as I'm sure you realize .. It is not uncommon for passengers in these circumstances to misplace in time the sequence of events. There is other information that the ELT was activated prior to the crash.

It takes some awful asshole to be calling a dead pilot an idiot without knowing the exact circumstances of what would have happened in this sad accident. Thanks for speaking up for decent people.

Exactly......it is very unlikely any pilot used to flying the west coast would verbalize an emergency unless something went wrong with the airplane such as the engine quit.

I knew this pilot and he has been flying floats on the west coast for decades and seeing as the two airplanes that took off before him made it without any problem I just do not see him flying into the trees just after take off....and that area is not " mountainous ".

[stallfortime]

in my first post, i was going from what the right hand passenger(Young)had said, that the pilot indicated in his mayday that they were going down. After the mayday, young saw the tree coming up. i think it was power loss or worse.

[Redneck_pilot86]

I can't believe some of the idiots posting on here would try to make us believe a pilot made a mayday call DURING a CFIT accident. Its painfully obvious that something went wrong, more than just shitty weather. I also knew the pilot, having worked with him briefly when I was an invincible 1000 hour wonder. In a big way, it was his words that stopped me from pushing weather and very possibly saved me from having my own accident. This pilot was by no means the type to feel the need to be a hero, he was very capable and knew his limits. RIP.

[Chuck Ellsworth]

I can't believe some of the idiots posting on here would try to make us believe a pilot made a mayday call DURING a CFIT accident. Its painfully obvious that something went wrong, more than just shitty weather. I also knew the pilot, having worked with him briefly when I was an invincible 1000 hour wonder. In a big way, it was his words that stopped me from pushing weather and very possibly saved me from having my own accident. This pilot was by no means the type to feel the need to be a hero, he was very capable and knew his limits. RIP.

The world has changed since the internet became the main way to communicate, for some strange reason it became acceptable for people to say anything they want to say because they can hide behind a make believe name.

[stallfortime]

i am getting various versions of young's account with different sequences of events, so wait and see when the dust has cleared.

[Beefitarian]

The world has changed since the internet became the main way to communicate, for some strange reason it became acceptable for people to say anything they want to say because they can hide behind a make believe name.

I wish it was just the Internet. You can just switch that off.

People seem to just want to fight everywhere. I went to a model train event on the weekend. Everyone used their real names and were face to face. Lots of negative waves and insults.

[GUMPS]

How come no one here has questioned where his fuel selector was? Didn't a first report say he went down 3 minutes after departing?

Also, not all of us flying on the west coast are bad for flying into marginal(er) weather...

[Doc]

How come no one here has questioned where his fuel selector was? Didn't a first report say he went down 3 minutes after departing?
...

Interesting point. A constructive comment. Thank you GUMPS. That would certainly account for any sudden loss of power. If the ceilings were in the 2-300 foot range, reselecting fuel tanks, and getting power back may not have been an option?

Lost even more respect for the mealy mouthed posters on this thread. They know who they are. I'll toast pilots for leaving the gear up. Every time. But I won't point fingers in cases like this, because I don't really know what happened here. The lack of respect shown here is nothing less than sickening.

[Doc]

carb ice; trim problem; invisible terrain...

maintenance... what else... bird problem?

OK I give up, what is invisible terrain????

Do you find this humorous?