Becoming a career pilot

[rspencer38]

Hey, just wondering if I can get some feedback about becoming a commercial pilot. I am looking to start my training in a few months but I want to get a sense of establishing a good career as pilot. I realize that after getting my licenses and ratings I won't find a job as F/O on Westjet or AC (very unlikely anyways), but do higher paying pilot jobs exist if you are willing to plug the hours and take low paying jobs to start? I would like to believe that those chosen for the higher paying flight gigs aren't a select few who get "lucky".

Any thoughts and advice?

[lownslow]

...if you are willing to plug the hours and take low paying jobs to start?

Any thoughts and advice?

You haven't even started and you're already selling yourself short and/or undercutting someone else to get ahead. Don't do that, it hurts everyone.

It's late, I'm tired, I'll type out the rest of my thoughts some other time if someone doesn't beat me to it. The Coles notes version is this: flying is awesome but not for everyone.

LnS.

[rspencer38]

I'm not sure I understand? I don't mean to undercut anyone! I just want a realistic picture of what to expect. I eager and willing to put in the countless hours I know it takes to become a successful pilot. I'm not someone who expects to earn 150k and live the glorious life of a big time airline pilot (although I know these individuals exist!), but at the same time, I want to know if you can earn a comfortable living as a pilot if the dedication is there!

**EDIT**
I assume you are referring to the low paying jobs comment? That does sound like I selling short but what I mean is that I know starting off a career can be very difficult. I graduated university and found a job that pays exceptionally well with little experience; I do not expect the same after gaining my CPL and ratings. The reason I say this is because that's all I've ever read about new pilots. I have a passion for aviation that I wish I pursued at a slightly younger age but I'm proud that I'm finally chasing my dreams.

[705dreamer]

Starting out you are not going to be able to find a good paying job. They don't exist if you have no experience. The grumpy guy at the beggining of the thread obviously has lots of experience and doesn't understand this. It wasn't to long ago that I started out and pretty much evey job as a 200hr pilot will provide you with just enough to live but definately no money left over for luxuries. If you find the right company though (and there are a few good ones out there), it doesn't take long to get to a very comfortable wage and good working conditions. I am now in the airlines I and am not a big fan. Lots of old grumpy guys and negativity. Also boring going to pavement strips all the time. And don't forget the huge paycut to start in the airlines. My starting salary when making the move was less than 50% of my previous wage. It is a love for the job career. I still love going to work however have already vowed to never start over at another airline. Back to the charter world I will go. That was by far the best 6 years of my career so far.

[rspencer38]

Thanks for the reply! That's the kinda response I was hoping for. I'm from Atlantic Canada and would enjoy flying in that area as career. I suspect that flying charter would be a better option but I'm not familiar enough with how the industry works. I'm considering doing my training at GFT in Gander and know they have their own tier three charter company, and they often hire within.

It's daunting to leaving a career where I know I can have a comfortable living to start all over again, but I know I want to fly and would love waking up every day to job that's worth doing.

[GUMPS]

My question for you is have you done any flying yet? What has made you sure you want to fly for a living? If you haven't DO NOT quit your current career yet. Actually keep a well paying job all the way through your PPL and your CPL if you can. You wouldn't be the first person to decide you don't actually love flying as much as you thought mid way through your private.

Funny you mentioned wanting to do something worth doing. There's been to many days this season I've asked myself "is this really worth it?"

[dirtysidedown]

It's daunting to leaving a career where I know I can have a comfortable living to start all over again, but I know I want to fly and would love waking up every day to job that's worth doing.

I had the exact same mentallity as you do right now. I started my training last October and just about to finish up my PPL. It has been along gruelling x months, but since I cannot train full time due to work and life commitments, I am doing it part-time but quickly. I've figured out that being at a desk all day looking at two monitors is not for me and whenever I go up flying I am as free as can be... It definitely helps having the crew here on AVCANADA and developing a good relationship with your school and its instructors; especially making friends with them as they've been where you are now and can provide mountains of advice as to the best steps to save money and gain knowledge.

My wife even sees a huge change in my attitude and happiness level after coming home from flying, I am as giddy as a kid on Christmas morning after Santa has arrived. I cannot stop talking about flying and the new things I do every day, even the small things such as hitting altitude of 6500' in a DA20. All this at 29 and already having a degree in Business Administration and a minor Computer Science, and a full time job of 6 yrs.

[rspencer38]

Well there is actually a few reasons why I'm leaving my career, not all of them being related to me wanting to fly as a career. I have flown before as I was in Air Cadets for many years!

I had the exact same mentallity as you do right now. I started my training last October and just about to finish up my PPL. It has been along gruelling x months, but since I cannot train full time due to work and life commitments, I am doing it part-time but quickly. I've figured out that being at a desk all day looking at two monitors is not for me and whenever I go up flying I am as free as can be... It definitely helps having the crew here on AVCANADA and developing a good relationship with your school and its instructors; especially making friends with them as they've been where you are now and can provide mountains of advice as to the best steps to save money and gain knowledge.

My wife even sees a huge change in my attitude and happiness level after coming home from flying, I am as giddy as a kid on Christmas morning after Santa has arrived. I cannot stop talking about flying and the new things I do every day, even the small things such as hitting altitude of 6500' in a DA20. All this at 29 and already having a degree in Business Administration and a minor Computer Science, and a full time job of 6 yrs.

Very similar situation! I have a B.Sc in Geography and a Post-Baccalaureate in Geographic Information Systems. After a few years I realized that I just don't enjoy coming to work at 8 sitting in front of two screens and doing mundane tasks day in and day out. I've always wanted to go after a flying career because I have this deep admiration for flying and all things aviation. I think I would enjoy other careers in aviation as well such as ATC.

[705dreamer]

ATC is a pretty awesome gig as well. Big pay cheque right off the bat. Very hard to get into though. I may be a little on the high side by saying the pass rate is about 10%. I have had the privelage to sit in at ATC for a few sessions with friends that work there. Pretty neat job but there is just something about actually being the one in the plane that you just can't beat.

[Bede]

After a few years I realized that I just don't enjoy coming to work at 8 sitting in front of two screens and doing mundane tasks day in and day out.

And you would rather come to work at 5 (or 2300h) and sit in front of 6 screens doing mundane tasks?

Joking aside, flying is a decent job, but it's not for everyone. Many years of low pay and my concern is that the up and comers now will not have the career that I do in 10 years. The regional's were always supposed to be a stepping stone to the big stuff, but if you look to the US, that's all drying up and guys are getting stuck flying an RJ for crap money.

If I was starting out again, I would look at the aviation career with a goal of making $80-100k flying a well maintained turboprop or small jet for an established 703 outfit. I wouldn't be doing whatever it takes to try to get an airline job, because that takes a lot of perseverance and it may never come. If I don't want to retire (with no pension) as a turboprop driver, I wouldn't get into this career.

[dirtysidedown]

If I don't want to retire (with no pension) as a turboprop driver, I wouldn't get into this career.

Well, that isn't reassuring that I am making the right decision.

[rspencer38]

I'd be extremely happy to fly in the Newfoundland area and make 65k+. Sure it would be nice to be in the 100k+ range of major airlines, but if I got a chance to work with a small airline/charter here and make decent money, I'd be content.

[GUMPS]

If I don't want to retire (with no pension) as a turboprop driver, I wouldn't get into this career.

Well, that isn't reassuring that I am making the right decision.

The reality bites doesn't it?
Bede hit the nail on the head. I'm 35, done all the "interesting and adventuress" flying I've wanted to do. I'm in a position now that I'm happy with but I still have my concern about the future. Putting my kid through college when the time comes?

$65K working for a charter company out on the Rock? I don't know who all is out there and what they pay but you better be prepared to fly in other "shitholes" in Canada first.

[SM16]

I can say with almost 100% certainty, that this thread will have a lot of pages

[JBI]

I generally don't come on the board and try and sell or advertise, but in this situation, I do think it'd be good for you to read the book I wrote, "So, You Want to be a Pilot, Eh?". You can find it at many city's libraries, or amazon is probably the least expensive.

The book has now been out for 6 years, so there are a few details that are out of date (i.e. Zoom and Skyservice no longer exist, and the salary numbers may not be exact), but it'll still give you a good sense of what you may be getting into. I don't try and 'sell' the career as a pilot (I no longer fly professionally), but I try and give readers a good sense of the pros and cons of the career. Although I like hearing about folks who have read the book and have progressed in the industry, one of the best reviews on amazon is a fellow who read the book and then decided not to become a pilot.

Whether a career as a pilot is a 'good career' is a very individual answer. Some people absolutely love it. Others, if they could have done things differently, would have. I think that anyone wanting to be a pilot has to have an honest look at what they want out of their career and why they think they want to be a pilot.

The comfortable paying jobs are there, but it takes some time to get there. I'd say of the folks I flew with, it took between 5 - 10 years after they finished their training to get on with WJ or AC - if that's your ultimate goal. The really interesting thing is that many guys who thought they wanted WJ or AC actually decided to take a different path, and are happier for it. All depends on the individual.

[rspencer38]

I've been trying to get a hold of that book actually but its always checked out at the local library. I'm looking into purchasing it! I wouldn't say AC/WJ is the ultimate goal, but having a decent paying career that has good benefits!