Good Companies

[goingnowherefast]

I've been poking around PCC, Avcanada job ads, talking with friends/other pilots. From what I have found, there are very few good companies to fly for as a career. I'm at a "stepping stone" company now that hires from flight school and treats you like crap because the boss knows there are few places you can go with 500hrs.

For a career job, like to find a place that:
-has no union (every company gets the union they deserve)
-no training bond (if you have to financially bond your pilots to stay, clearly nobody wants to stay)
-treats you well (schedule, lifestyle, pay, maybe even benefits)
-near civilization and south of 60N (wife doesn't like -40 or being constantly "eye-humped" by all the "locals" in the Northern Store)

Really doesn't matter what aircraft they have and I don't need 250k/year or anything wild. It would be nice to be home most nights, have a few days off occasionally and after a few years, be making 70-90k in the left seat.

I am never expecting to find that pay with 500hrs, but I don't think it's unreasonable to start at a place like that as a FO and work my way "up the ladder".

Anybody work for or know of a place like that? I do intend to spend the rest of my career there.

[rspencer38]

Where are you currently working?

[PointyEngine]

Training bonds are a fact of life. No matter how good a company is, there are always scumbags around who will get a PPC, and within 6 months run of to another company; taking a pay cut and worse working conditions, just because they have bigger machines...

Financial up front bonds are BS, but a 1 year commitment for a PPC is very little to ask...

[MagicMilkshake]

Financial up front bonds are BS, but a 1 year commitment for a PPC is very little to ask...

I agree, that isnt bad at all, as long as its not taking advantage and paying the pilot peanuts.

And for the original poster, I assume you have at least 500 hours?

[boeingboy]

Sunwest. Good benefits, decent pay, lots of different aircraft, good experience. They are also moving into a brand new hanger facility in Sept.

[Donald]

As long as you have #3, in the location you want, does the rest matter?

[goingnowherefast]

Sunwest. Good benefits, decent pay, lots of different aircraft, good experience. They are also moving into a brand new hanger facility in Sept.

Thanks boeingboy, this is exactly the kind of answer I was hoping for. Spread positive reviews about good companies to work for.

Also, through personal friends and acquaintances, Thunder Airlines seems like a decent place to work.

[Doc]

I've been poking around PCC, Avcanada job ads, talking with friends/other pilots. From what I have found, there are very few good companies to fly for as a career. I'm at a "stepping stone" company now that hires from flight school and treats you like crap because the boss knows there are few places you can go with 500hrs.

For a career job, like to find a place that:
-has no union (every company gets the union they deserve)
-no training bond (if you have to financially bond your pilots to stay, clearly nobody wants to stay)
-treats you well (schedule, lifestyle, pay, maybe even benefits)
-near civilization and south of 60N (wife doesn't like -40 or being constantly "eye-humped" by all the "locals" in the Northern Store)

Really doesn't matter what aircraft they have and I don't need 250k/year or anything wild. It would be nice to be home most nights, have a few days off occasionally and after a few years, be making 70-90k in the left seat.

I am never expecting to find that pay with 500hrs, but I don't think it's unreasonable to start at a place like that as a FO and work my way "up the ladder".

Anybody work for or know of a place like that? I do intend to spend the rest of my career there.

I think its safe to say, "GoingNoWhereFast", that you picked a great AvCanada ID. Your going no where fast with that kind of atittude in mind, and especially with your low times 500hrs and high expectations. I think most would agree what i just stated. Reality check. I think that is something you need. If you think like that in this industry, you are literally "Going No Where" anytime soon.

What the Hell is wrong with his "attitude"? Frankly, it's pretty realistic. He lays out his expectations, which are fair. You obviously didn't bother to read them.
I did enjoy the "eye-humped" comment. That's a new one.
I guess it's wrong to post expectations because so many are willing to work for peanuts, sign bonds, cough up money, and generally kiss ass and whore themselves out, it's expected of everybody.
Keep your eyes on the prize there, goingnowherefast.

[Ki-ll]

Thunder Airlines seems like a decent place to work.

Sorry, can you say that again please?

[goingnowherefast]

Thunder Airlines seems like a decent place to work.

Sorry, can you say that again please?

I sent you a PM about specifics as I'd like to keep this thread positive.

And for the original poster, I assume you have at least 500 hours?

Yeah, I've got a bit over 500.

[Aviatard]

I think its safe to say, "GoingNoWhereFast", that you picked a great AvCanada ID. Your going no where fast with that kind of atittude in mind, and especially with your low times 500hrs and high expectations. I think most would agree what i just stated. Reality check. I think that is something you need. If you think like that in this industry, you are literally "Going No Where" anytime soon.

The guy asked some reasonable questions, doesn't put up an attitude and you crap all over him for it. Perfect d*ck answer. I most definitely do not agree with what you just stated.

C'mon man.

[TheRealOtter]

I think its safe to say, "GoingNoWhereFast", that you picked a great AvCanada ID. Your going no where fast with that kind of atittude in mind, and especially with your low times 500hrs and high expectations. I think most would agree what i just stated. Reality check. I think that is something you need. If you think like that in this industry, you are literally "Going No Where" anytime soon.

Being up front about expectations can be a good thing. In fact if we had a bit more of it in this industry (from operators as well as employees) it would probably be a better sector to work in. He has the same naive attitude many of us had at ~500 hours (had big expectations and perhaps had been promised more than the company is following thru with?), but not a particularly negative one. He wants to be (a) treated like a human being (b) treated as a professional and (c) treated well... from my interpretation of his post... Doesn't seem like an unreasonable set of expectations.

So if I guy thinks there is better in this industry than the way he is being treated (probably like garbage thinking back on some operators out there). He wants to find a company that is going to be loyal and treat him well, so he can be loyal and treat them well, but you think he needs a reality check? I don't know about you, but I have worked for company's where the management thinks everyone is just F**king them to jump to the next company, whether or not you intend to... but interestingly everyone always does because at a certain point they actually end up making it a self-fulfilling prophecy, they treat people so poorly that everyone will leave regardless of original intentions.

-I would second Sunwest, heard good things.
-Kenn Borek (two week on two week off and two and four month contracts, not quite what you were asking after, but a lot of pilots like it... also: see the world, at least the icy parts of it)
-Air Inuit (again two weeks/two weeks, but a lot of people like it)

edit: spelling!

[+TSRAGR]

Don't flatter yourself about the wife.

More likely the "locals" have sore eyes from the glare of her pasty flesh in the bright northern sun.

Best if you stay in Toronto where you will be surrounded by civilized folk like you.

[goingnowherefast]

Being up front about expectations can be a good thing. In fact if we had a bit more of it in this industry (from operators as well as employees) it would probably be a better sector to work in. He has the same naive attitude many of us had at ~500 hours (had big expectations and perhaps had been promised more than the company is following thru with?), but not a particularly negative one. He wants to be (a) treated like a human being (b) treated as a professional and (c) treated well... from my interpretation of his post... Doesn't seem like an unreasonable set of expectations.

So if I guy thinks there is better in this industry than the way he is being treated (probably like garbage thinking back on some operators out there). He wants to find a company that is going to be loyal and treat him well, so he can be loyal and treat them well, but you think he needs a reality check? I don't know about you, but I have worked for company's where the management thinks everyone is just F**king them to jump to the next company, whether or not you intend to... but interestingly everyone always does because at a certain point they actually end up making it a self-fulfilling prophecy, they treat people so poorly that everyone will leave regardless of original intentions.

-I would second Sunwest, heard good things.
-Kenn Borek (two week on two week off and two and four month contracts, not quite what you were asking after, but a lot of pilots like it... also: see the world, at least the icy parts of it)
-Air Inuit (again two weeks/two weeks, but a lot of people like it)

Thanks. You pretty much hit the nail on the head. I want to find a company where there's a mutual understanding of trust and loyalty.

[Brantford Beech Boy]

Thanks. You pretty much hit the nail on the head. I want to find a company where there's a mutual understanding of trust and loyalty.

Sorry boss, you won't find that here in aviation....

BBB

[Roar]

Thanks. You pretty much hit the nail on the head. I want to find a company where there's a mutual understanding of trust and loyalty.

Sorry boss, you won't find that here in aviation....

BBB

That is not true BBB. There are just fewer of the good companies.

[godsrcrazy]

Thanks. You pretty much hit the nail on the head. I want to find a company where there's a mutual understanding of trust and loyalty.

Sorry boss, you won't find that here in aviation....

BBB

That is not true BBB. There are just fewer of the good companies.

I think he said MUTUAL respect why does it always come down to companies are the bad guys.

[Beefitarian]

Same reason every time two or more owners meet up, they probably talk about employees being the bad guys.

If I can compare this to industries I have worked in, you may have difficulty getting hired by the "good companies" until you have enough experience to be attractive to them. My limited understanding is, hours are king on a pilot's resume.

Popular companies tend to have higher standards simply because more experienced people are willing apply and they also will go beyond the resume submission stage. Also they will have less people quitting out of frustration to escape them and probably less firing. That trust and loyalty might help them to have more staff with thousands of hours that simply are not even interested in leaving.

Less hiring and greater rewards will attract people who have more experience, usually represented by hours logged. They might even have high time pilots waiting for them to call next time they need to hire.

I'm not trying to bring you down. Seek them out and keep trying. I suspect guys will be unlikely to share the "good companies" on here by name.

[Marinth]

Sunwest is pretty good. The thing they're missing on your list is the bonds. They have massive bonds. Pay is decent, you will be home most nights. If you don't mind being constantly on-call or flying it's a pretty good gig. Pay get's good on the bigger machines and the jets.

[boeingboy]

True - but they are pro rated and you dont pay up front.

Pretty hard to get away from bonds of some kind these days.

[TheRedPages]

Sunwest +1

What area of the country?

West, Sunwest, North Cariboo once you have some theme, Northern Sir Charters in CYPE seems like a good company to cut your teeth at, promissory bond I believe. Once again with a bit of time try Air Partners. Canwest is also a good place to get experience as well. Sunwest has caravans and to get MPIC the Navajo, so good starting point, and you live in YYC! If you want to get on at a old operator start reading about IFR and always learn about aircraft and operations that you aspire to fly, not just what you are flying now. That means critical engine, balanced field, V speeds, 703/704 duty times. I'm surprised how many candidates come to an interview and want to fly heavy airplanes, but have not bothered to take a couple of hours to review since flight school.

[Brown Bear]

Don't flatter yourself about the wife.

More likely the "locals" have sore eyes from the glare of her pasty flesh in the bright northern sun.

Best if you stay in Toronto where you will be surrounded by civilized folk like you.

So, it's HOT northern babes for YOU then, is it? You is more than welcome to them.

[futboler14]

[goingnowherefast]

Sunwest +1

What area of the country?

West, Sunwest, North Cariboo once you have some theme, Northern Sir Charters in CYPE seems like a good company to cut your teeth at, promissory bond I believe. Once again with a bit of time try Air Partners. Canwest is also a good place to get experience as well. Sunwest has caravans and to get MPIC the Navajo, so good starting point, and you live in YYC! If you want to get on at a old operator start reading about IFR and always learn about aircraft and operations that you aspire to fly, not just what you are flying now. That means critical engine, balanced field, V speeds, 703/704 duty times. I'm surprised how many candidates come to an interview and want to fly heavy airplanes, but have not bothered to take a couple of hours to review since flight school.

Thanks TheRedPages, I am pretty familiar with factors affecting flying a pressurized twin turbine, but I do get what your saying.
For days off, the 703 operator I'm at now only gives me the 3 in 30 and the 13 in 90 that's required by the CARs, so I am intimately familiar with them. Same with the flight duty time rules.

[wallypilot]

I think its safe to say, "GoingNoWhereFast", that you picked a great AvCanada ID. Your going no where fast with that kind of atittude in mind, and especially with your low times 500hrs and high expectations. I think most would agree what i just stated. Reality check. I think that is something you need. If you think like that in this industry, you are literally "Going No Where" anytime soon.

I don't know anyone who would agree with what you just stated.

And to the OP, once you get 2500-3000 hours with a good amount of command and multi turbine time, London Air in Vancouver would be an acceptable place to be long term as well.

Unfortunately,to get to that range of experience you may have to work some less than ideal places. But there are many stepping stone companies that are decent operators, just not career jobs. Ask around enough and you will learn which ones. Out on the west coast, Pacific Coastal and CMA are great places to learn for a few years before moving to more permanent arrangement. Although having said that, there are some career guys at Pacific Coastal too....you could do a lot worse. Although living expenses in YVR are enough to make you feel poor even making 90k per year.