Fast Air. Be20

[Doc]

Must sign training bond.
Are pilots not yet telling these companies to "POUND SAND"?
Guess not.
Ah pity da fools

[PointyEngine]

If it's not cash up front, and only a one year commitment, whats wrong with that?

No matter how good a company is, there are scumbags who will run as soon as they get that little sticker.

Is it too much too ask for a company to have some form of return for their investment?
Get a life...

[JLA]

Exactly...With the current state of the industry, it would be too tempting for many 2000 hour guys to take the job, and jump ship to encore or sky regional. Bosses are not fool, they know the game, and how much Young guns have the shiny jet syndrom.
What amazes me Doc is that you keep saying good things about Thunder and Bearskin. The later is even asking pilots to pay up front, the first one is well known to pay very well, but with a 2 year bond...So?

[esp803]

I tend to agree with the latter to, no money changes hands, 1 year isn't to much to ask of someone. To be honest I've only ever heard of one case where the employer followed through on a bond for someone leaving to greener pastures after a couple months.

E

[MagicMilkshake]

I've heard of one guy bailing on 2 bonds, both came after him haha.

I think a promissory note for at least a year, is very doable, AS LONG AS the pilot is paid justly. If I can make more at mc donalds, then RUN. If the employer is ready to train a pilot, he might aswell pay him well.

[ahramin]

Two job offers: Be20 flying 250 hours a year $90 000 salary with 1 year bond, or Be20 flying 500 hours a year $60 000 salary no bond.

Which one do you take?

Bonds aren't nearly the problem poor working conditions are. In fact a bond is only a problem when working conditions are poor, which is where you are most likely to find a bond requirement.

[flyinhigh]

You can't say that crappy companies are the only ones to have a bond. Thunder was one of the best companies I worked for, as everyone knows they pay extremely well.

Fact, Pilots will jump ship the second the airlines call. REGARDLESS of how well they are treated, if you wave that big shiney jet in front of them they will go if that is what they want.

A promissoay note is just a way for the company to protect itself from training someone, and having that person that can't stick to there word jump ship the second the ink on the PPC dries.

[iflyforpie]

Except that in many cases the cost of the training to the employer is highly overvalued, and that many employers purposefully use inadequate training to ensure a certain percentage of PPC failures so they can keep the cash (or extract money from the poor soul... same thing in the end).

Training is supposed to be a cost that a company with multiple million dollars of income is supposed to shoulder the loss of... not some low timer who's bringing home a low five figures.

[Jack Klumpus]

Side note; Doc, did you not sign a training bond at some point in your career?

[Jack Klumpus]

Don't wanna pick a fight, but Doc, have you not signed a bond before? Or was it a pay upfront kind of scheme?

[Doc]

Don't wanna pick a fight, but Doc, have you not signed a bond before? Or was it a pay upfront kind of scheme?

Nope. Never have. Never will.

[godsrcrazy]

Don't wanna pick a fight, but Doc, have you not signed a bond before? Or was it a pay upfront kind of scheme?

Nope. Never have. Never will.

Doc My guess would be you never have because you got your break when someone giving their word meant something. You have been in the industry long enough your word means something. Unfortunately this is the not way it is today. There are a lot of individuals out there that would eat their own to get ahead hence training bonds. The bonds are not all about bad companies treating employees like crap. They are mainly about employees taking endorsements and PPC and bolting to someone that will treat them like crap but pay them more while doing it. Of course these companies can pay more when they continually poach pilots from other companies.You can say what you want but there is a cost to training that goes beyond 5 hours of training. There are the costs of mentoring and maintenance while people learn how to land a new type without driving the gear thru the wing.

[Jack Klumpus]

Don't wanna pick a fight, but Doc, have you not signed a bond before? Or was it a pay upfront kind of scheme?

Nope. Never have. Never will.

Fair enough, thanks.

I guess my info was inaccurate.

Release the hounds!

[iflyforpie]

You can add me to the list of people who have never signed a bond... and my aviation career has been entirely in this century.

[esp803]

I'll admit I've signed one bond in my career thus far: It was a $4,000 bond prorated over 1 year, for that they typed me on a King Air 200, 300, 350 and sent me to sim for the Caravan... So 3 types, sim, and while I was on the caravan I made over 11k a month at the peak. A $4,000 bond was rather trivial at that point. They laid me off on month seven and the bond was forgotten, everybody was happy.

E

[FlightSolutions]

I worked for them for about a year and a half. No bond at that time. I enjoyed every minute of it, but I stayed away from the medevac side of things where I heard things were not as good. Got upgraded without a pay raise then six months later I got a raise for the upgrade with backpay starting from when I started training. I never accept the upgrade with a raise nor asked for one. The 2 airplanes I flew were owned by a couple of the senior pilots so I mainly dealt with them. They were top notch, and always had my back on my go no/go, and maintenance decisions. I wouldn't have left but my family was getting homesick. I can't think of any major issues I had with them. I enjoyed my job, and had a good schedule.

They definitely seemed to be trying to move away from the bush league mentality that is so prevalent in Manitoba.

I flew with the owner of the company when I started, and he seems to genuinely care about things. He knew all about me even though he never met me before.

One of the incentives they gave me to join was full benefits from day one. They started paying me a week early, and gave me a week off with pay when I started when my daughter was born.

There was talk about hiring people at a slightly lower salary and giving people a good bonus and a good raise when they completed a set term. I guess they went the bond route.

[Doc]

Don't wanna pick a fight, but Doc, have you not signed a bond before? Or was it a pay upfront kind of scheme?

Nope. Never have. Never will.

Fair enough, thanks.

I guess my info was inaccurate.

Release the hounds!

LOL
The company you have your info on, brought in bonds long after my departure.

[VincentJames]

Disregard

[Doc]

Doc My guess would be you never have because you got your break when someone giving their word meant something. You have been in the industry long enough your word means something. Unfortunately this is the not way it is today.

My "break"? Would that be the two winters I spent hauling 5 gallon oil pails up on DC3 wings and sitting in the cockpit boiling off the oil dilution, while the scum sucking captain sat and had breakfast? Maybe it was sleeping in the trailers in WBV in a three star for two winters? Perhaps this wonderful "break" was simply because our "word" meant something? Perhaps.
A pilot's "word" still means the same as it always has. Just have to be careful in the interview process. For every pilot who's pulled the "plug" and made a "lateral" move, I can name two scum sucking, bottom feeding companies who have "pushed" pilots into situations they would never be in because the poor dumb bastard has signed a bond, and the company has him by the balls, and knows it! Guys are always going to chase the big tin, regardless of the bond issue. Training should be a cost of doing business. If your pilots are making lateral moves....you are the problem, not the pilots.

[VincentJames]

Doc My guess would be you never have because you got your break when someone giving their word meant something. You have been in the industry long enough your word means something. Unfortunately this is the not way it is today.

My "break"? Would that be the two winters I spent hauling 5 gallon oil pails up on DC3 wings and sitting in the cockpit boiling off the oil dilution, while the scum sucking captain sat and had breakfast? Maybe it was sleeping in the trailers in WBV in a three star for two winters? Perhaps this wonderful "break" was simply because our "word" meant something? Perhaps.
A pilot's "word" still means the same as it always has. Just have to be careful in the interview process. For every pilot who's pulled the "plug" and made a "lateral" move, I can name two scum sucking, bottom feeding companies who have "pushed" pilots into situations they would never be in because the poor dumb bastard has signed a bond, and the company has him by the balls, and knows it! Guys are always going to chase the big tin, regardless of the bond issue. Training should be a cost of doing business. If your pilots are making lateral moves....you are the problem, not the pilots.

Don't necessarily agree with that. Human nature is to always think the grass is greener on the other side........

[godsrcrazy]

Doc My guess would be you never have because you got your break when someone giving their word meant something. You have been in the industry long enough your word means something. Unfortunately this is the not way it is today.

My "break"? Would that be the two winters I spent hauling 5 gallon oil pails up on DC3 wings and sitting in the cockpit boiling off the oil dilution, while the scum sucking captain sat and had breakfast? Maybe it was sleeping in the trailers in WBV in a three star for two winters? Perhaps this wonderful "break" was simply because our "word" meant something? Perhaps.
A pilot's "word" still means the same as it always has. Just have to be careful in the interview process. For every pilot who's pulled the "plug" and made a "lateral" move, I can name two scum sucking, bottom feeding companies who have "pushed" pilots into situations they would never be in because the poor dumb bastard has signed a bond, and the company has him by the balls, and knows it! Guys are always going to chase the big tin, regardless of the bond issue. Training should be a cost of doing business. If your pilots are making lateral moves....you are the problem, not the pilots.

Don't necessarily agree with that. Human nature is to always think the grass is greener on the other side........

Vincent i agree with you. As for DOC he will never agree. He will continue to rant about and call companies Scum sucking and call people that go back on their work or make lateral moves (Pilots). Doc refuses to accept the fact that pilots going back on their word are as is big of a part of bonds as what he calls Scum sucking companies that he believes forces people into bad decisions. No wonder there are unions Doc its people that can't say no that need someone like a union to stand up for them.

[Doc]

Such rancour. Such anger. Still, the Doc wonders, what other industry bonds their employees? I'm sure Xerox spends bags of money training their people. I'm sure some jump to IBM? I'm sure GM spends money training their people. I'm sure some jump to Ford?
I promise not to refer to these companies as "scum" in future posts, if that'll make you feel any less venomous towards me, but I have NO respect for the practice, or those condoning it.