Co-pilot time for ATPL

[Chaxterium]

I don't think he's trying to change the contents of the Gazette II. I think he's just trying to start a discussion on better and more realistic ATPL requirements.

In my opinion there should definitely be a multi-crew requirement to the ATPL. If I was tasked with creating the requirements for the ATPL I would go with something like this:

-2500 TT
-500 PIC
-500 Multi-Crew
-200 Night
-100 IFR
-Multi-Crew Type Rating

Those times seem reasonable to me.

Thoughts?

Cheers,
Chax

[Colonel Sanders]

I think he's just trying to start a discussion on better and more realistic ATPL requirements

I'm struggling to figure out why. We could also have a
discussion about better and more realistic expectations
that women should have of men, but to what point? I
don't think we're going to change women any time soon,
either.

Thoughts?

Two words: ICAO compliance. Unless we're going to all
stop everyone flying outside of Canada, and stop all foreigners
from flying into Canada. Build a great big wall around the
Canadian border, to FL 600.

[notpaying]

For all those looking for the source of this thread, I went and got the html version of it. It also talks about other changes, such as the elimination of the 6 month medical if you're 40 and over, un,ess you are 40 and flying single pilot IFR. However, I doubt the 1:1 rule implementation, because it does not appear in the REGULATIONS AMENDING THE CANADIAN AVIATION REGULATIONS (PART IV) part of the Gazette I. Maybe someone can shed some light on this?

Here is the link
http://canadagazette.gc.ca/rp-pr/p1/201 ... .html#REFb

[Canadian Skyhawk]

The 1 ATPL for 2 co-pilot hours appears in CARs 401.10 / 421.10.

401.10 states simply: "The Minister shall, in accordance with the personnel licensing standards, credit the flight time acquired by a co-pilot towards the issuance of a higher class of pilot licence."

421.10 states simply: "The holder of a pilot licence may be credited not more than 50% of co-pilot flight time towards the total flight time required for the issuance of a higher class of pilot licence."

The amendment proposed in the Gazette I clearly spells out that one of the intentions of this amendment is to grant 100% recognition for co-pilot hours towards the ATPL. It includes an amendment for 401.10, though the text specified is "401.10 reserved", which indicates that the specific replacement text has yet to be written. The intentions of the change are nevertheless very clear.

I expect this change to pass before the end of 2013.

[Mister1]

...

[Doc]

Had heard that they intend to change the 50% credit to 30% credit. Three hours of co-pilot time will be required to equal one of hour towards an ATPL. Can anybody confirm this? Weird.

[shimmydampner]

Could you imagine all the wailing and complaining and crying foul from all the low-time right-seat kiddies?! Ahh... makes me all warm and fuzzy just thinking about it.

[Doc]

Exactly what I was thinking as well. LOL!!! Imagine the line ups for instructor ratings!

[PointyEngine]

While they're at it, Transport may as well make instructing time (Passenger In Command) just as valuable as co-jo time. No point just killing one bird.

[Doc]

While they're at it, Transport may as well make instructing time (Passenger In Command) just as valuable as co-jo time. No point just killing one bird.

The sour grapes begin.

[PointyEngine]

If they're going to start using some common sense, they may as well use it across the board??

[Doc]

If they're going to start using some common sense, they may as well use it across the board??

You do know we is screwing with ya, no?

[PointyEngine]

Comon Doc, was hoping for a bite! Now I have to find something else to fill my afternoon in...

[Mister1]

...

[boogs82]

Since I'm still a newb to aviation, how,does this affect somebody seeking a CPL? I mean, can two PPL holders out on a flight claim "co-pilot" time and count it toward a CPL? I mean the wording says 50% of the hours shall be credits toward a higher class of license. Since a CPL is a higher class of license......


Caveat...
Curiosity from somebody who's set in a career and not looking to change careers to get into aviation. Just an observation.

[Brown Bear]

Since I'm still a newb to aviation, how,does this affect somebody seeking a CPL? I mean, can two PPL holders out on a flight claim "co-pilot" time and count it toward a CPL? I mean the wording says 50% of the hours shall be credits toward a higher class of license. Since a CPL is a higher class of license......

Nope

[Beefitarian]

In order to log time as co-pilot it has to be a two crew airplane. So we can't go flying around second in command of a 172.

Dual is different because you are flying with an instructor so they are PIC even if they are just drinking coffee. Which is fine with me most of the time.

[boogs82]

In order to log time as co-pilot it has to be a two crew airplane. So we can't go flying around second in command of a 172.

Dual is different because you are flying with an instructor so they are PIC even if they are just drinking coffee. Which is fine with me most of the time.

Thanks Beef. I don't necessarily venture to those part of the CAR's because I'm not interested in that aspect of flying. Thanks for taking the time to explain it to me.

[Beefitarian]

Can't take much credit, I wish I could understand cars better. It was explained very well here by a few of the guys that read up on them. I was going to hunt down one of the threads then just posted that instead.

[cpt.sam]

While they're at it, Transport may as well make instructing time (Passenger In Command) just as valuable as co-jo time. No point just killing one bird.

The sour grapes begin.

Now come on folks, that's a little bit funny!
I'm sure even the crusty old farts had a chuckle at that!
lol

[cdnpilot77]

So government has been pro-rogued until October 16th...nothing new to come for at least a month

[Johnnyvalrosa]

Well, if anyone has anymore info on this happening soon, please share.

[cpt.sam]

Well, if anyone has anymore info on this happening soon, please share.

Otherwise I'm off to the US to get my FAA ATPL and have it converted to Canadian. I can't wait any longer. I've been hearing about this Co-Jo one for one rule change for years.

Johnny,
What are the requirements South of our border?
Specifically, TT and PIC requirements?

AND... does anyone else see it as despicable that we have this option?
Should someone be financially able to hop down to the US, write some exams and do an IFR ride, wait for paper work and then come home and get a Canadian ATPL out of thin air.....just don't seem right!

[single_swine_herder]

Well Capt .... it isn't right..... because it isn't the way it works here.

Foreign licence conversions still need to meet Canadian minimum experience levels as per Part IV of the CARS.

Its not just ..... "Oh ... I see you've got an Outer Mongolian ATPL which was issued based on the ATPL issued by Pakistan after a PPC on four different Boeing Type Ratings in Nigeria? ... Well, that's good enough for us loveable but gullible Canucks ... stand right where you are, we'll whomp up a Canadian ATPL in a couple of minutes for you. It'll just be a temporary until your permanent one comes in he mail .... is that OK?"

Not the way it works Capt .... so you can save your supply of righteous indignation for something more deserving.

[Doc]

Be thankful we don't adopt the British requirements. Stop your snivelling.