Transponders & IFR

[TopperHarley]

Hey guys,

According to 601.03, you need a functioning tranponder with mode C capability in the following airspace:
- all class A, B, and C airspace.
- all class D and E airspace designated as "tranponder airspace."

Furthermore, RAC 1.9.3 states: "During IFR flight in controlled low level airspace other than that described in 1.9.2, adjust your transponder to reply on Mode A, code 1000, and on Mode C if available..."

This seems to imply that an aircraft can legally fly IFR without a transponder, as long as the aircraft stays outside of the airspace described in 601.03. Has anyone here ever flown IFR without a functionning transponder? Is this something that controllers frown upon? Comments??

Thanks in advance,
Chris.

[lost]

If you flew totally outside those areas ie. in the north you could get away with it but you'd be limiting yourself severely (going to a big airport). As for ATC if your in G or E airspace odds are your out of radar coverage (from my experience) and a transponder wouldnt be doing anything anyway.

[Right Seat Captain]

As for ATC if your in G or E airspace odds are your out of radar coverage (from my experience) and a transponder wouldnt be doing anything anyway.

Although true about the radar coverage, the transponder wouldn't be totally useless. At least aircraft with TCAS can avoid you, only if you have a transponder turned on.

Anyways, I concur, from an ATC and legal point of view if you're outside of class A, B, C and class D and E stated as requiring a transponder, there's usually no radar coverage, which is the reason it's not the above stated airspace in the first place. You'd be hardpressed to fly to or from any populated place IFR without requiring a transponder though.

[Wasn't Me]

even if there is radar coverage as long as you stay outside the Transponder areas your 100 percewnt legal. If it's a one time trip you can always make a phone call.

[lost]

Excellent point about the TCAS right seat captain. I guess I didnt have enough coffee this morning to think of that.

[Unable Due Traffic]

Has anyone here ever flown IFR without a functionning transponder? Is this something that controllers frown upon? Comments??

If it breaks in the air or if you have to get to a place to fix it you can fly without it. Prior approval is required for the later.
I don't frown upon it, shite happens. It is just way more restrictive to apply proceedural separation between the non-radar aircraft and everyone else.

[Axial Flow]

So as long as you remain below 10,000 feet withing radar coverage areas (Transponder Airspace) and steer clear of B &C airspace then technically you do not require one ? I know of a pilot who was refused an IFR clearance from ATC because the Transponder was inop. They argued and finally he got his clearance. Where does it state that you need it in Class E below 10,000 ?

[bandaid]

Hey Axial,
Two posts in one day, your not working hard enough

[Right Seat Captain]

So as long as you remain below 10,000 feet withing radar coverage areas (Transponder Airspace) and steer clear of B &C airspace then technically you do not require one ? I know of a pilot who was refused an IFR clearance from ATC because the Transponder was inop. They argued and finally he got his clearance. Where does it state that you need it in Class E below 10,000 ?

Some Class D airspace is listed as requiring a Mode C Transponder, such as in Ottawa and I think maybe Winnipeg? Class E, I don't know if there's any that requires a transponder.

[RVR12]

" adjust your transponder to reply on Mode A, code 1000, and on Mode C if available..."

We all know how the wording in the CARS and AIP is, but from my interpretation, you can opperate in mode A (no altitude), code 1000, but IF YOU HAVE mode C (wth altitude encoding) avalible, to use it...

[Axial Flow]

RSC,

I read it again and below 10,000 in Class E you do not require it. As for you Bandaid.....I am trying to squeeze in a few posts in the 4 hour breaks between flights

(24th of June not December...)
METAR CYGX 241600Z 02018G24KT 3/4SM -SN OVC003 01/01 A2972 RMK SN8

HA HA

[kim_2222]

RSC:

example of class E xpdr airspace: within 5nm of the YOW vor. need mode C 2500ASL and up (to 4000 top of the practice area)

also, i think its required around Thunder Bay

k

[Right Seat Captain]

Thanks kim_2222, just checked the map and learnt something new!