French in Radio

[cpt.sam]

Can anyone provide a better source than CARs 602.133 on why french is acceptable?
Of course, if the controller is french, and all the traffic is french, the point is moot. However, when not everyone speaks french, how is it that it's ok for a foreign language to be used aviation.
Again, if everything were radar controlled and whatnot, the point again would be moot.
BUT...When you fly into non radar environments, not knowing what any other aircraft is saying, or what the controller is saying, trying to get a word in edgewise to ask WHAT THE F%CK is going on, where is the traffic, and not getting the satisfaction of knowing you and your pax are safe because of language barrier........That's not safe.
It's like taking all your situational awareness away, it's not safe!

And before you francophones start...
I am NOT AGAINST FRENCH.
I am against idiotic use of brain cells.
Pilots speak english....all of us!
Controllers speak english... all of em!
If there is someone on the frequency that does not speak french, ENGLISH should be used.... It's not cuz English is the language of aviation. It's common sense.

[Beefitarian]

I was in France on vacation second time I managed such a feat and possibly at the detriment of flying dollars.

Driving in the country we happened upon a small airdrome. It was a drizzly over cast Sunday yet there were many cars parked at the club building. I told my wife, "I know what's going on here. It's too crappy to fly but there's a bunch of French guys in there eating and drinking wine. I'm going to check it out."

Sure enough. It was the only time during the trip I really regret not having better French language skills. There were only a few that spoke honglaise and not fluent. We did ok between us but discussing the piper cub one of the guys was intending to build was difficult.

Sure if you fly into Montreal there will be a controller to speak with you but go to some smaller places and you might have to arrange for an English speaking one.

[Go Juice]

Because French is not a foreign language numb nussen!

[Rockie]

However, when not everyone speaks french, how is it that it's ok for a foreign language to be used aviation.

Foreign languages are used in aviation all over the world along with wildly varying proficiencies of English spoken with almost impossible to understand accents. We have it good here in Canada.

[Panama Jack]

You probably will want to refer to some ICAO literature.

The deal here is that English is the common language, as I understand it, must be provided at International Airports and by ATC dealing with international air traffic. As such, pilots engaging in international aviation must demonstrate the required proficiency in English or the alternative language offered by ATC (ie. Spanish in Latin America).

Yes, ATC services are being offered in the local lingo in France, Greece, Turkey, Russia, Latin America and China. That is just the parts of the world that I have experienced first-hand. If the country allows the use of the language that is OK, but they must also be able to provide English-language services to foreign pilots who will be using those ATC facilities.

Not much of a problem, normally, but I did have a heck of a time once getting the current weather for Kashi (ZWSH), which was an en-route airport on an escape-route.

In any case, look & avoid is the unfortunate rule of the road for separating yourself from VFR traffic. If you are tooling around IFR in uncontrolled airspace, well, then you are also responsible for traffic separation. We are lucky in Canada that we have airspace where positive control is not mandated between all aircraft. You are correct about the safety implecations, though, about not everybody speaking a common language. The language issue in Canada is an emotional and sometimes, irrational one. Suck it up.

[ahramin]

If you're worried about it sam, learn French.

[bmc]

If you're worried about it sam, learn French.

Good suggestion. I doubt whining about it on Avcanada will change the world. It might. But I doubt it.

French is used in France and Switzerland up to 24,000 feet. English proficiency is a requirement to getting any pilots license in Europe.

This is an old topic. I'm guessing you are new to aviation, Sam?

[Panama Jack]

So how does that work out, bmc, with French, German, Italian and Romansh being spoken in such a small country?

[boogs82]

As was mentioned, French isn`t a foreign language. You might want to check the Official Languages Act where it discusses the two official languages in Canada. I`ll give a hint....French is one of them.

[bmc]

Skyguide, the Swiss ATC, controls flights over French terrritory from roughly Lyon east and Dole south. The Germans do not have the privilege to speak their native language above 10,000ft, if I'm not mistaken, due to losing the war.

I've attended flying here in Switzerland and everyone reverts to the common international language of English. But when they are in their home parts, you'll hear French, Germand and Italian. I don't know how many pilots speak Romansch.

[bmc]

Until someone pointed out that there were a couple of European military training zones, I always wondered is Swiss Air Force plots were always in one continuous hard left turn to stay within borders.

[iflyforpie]

Part of me wishes we were forced to listen/speak more French in Canada. My high school French has long since languished so I am embarrassed to speak or even write it, and reading Wikipedia in French only gets me so far.

[fabichoux]

Can anyone provide a better source than CARs 602.133 on why french is acceptable?
Of course, if the controller is french, and all the traffic is french, the point is moot. However, when not everyone speaks french, how is it that it's ok for a foreign language to be used aviation.
Again, if everything were radar controlled and whatnot, the point again would be moot.
BUT...When you fly into non radar environments, not knowing what any other aircraft is saying, or what the controller is saying, trying to get a word in edgewise to ask WHAT THE F%CK is going on, where is the traffic, and not getting the satisfaction of knowing you and your pax are safe because of language barrier........That's not safe.
It's like taking all your situational awareness away, it's not safe!

And before you francophones start...
I am NOT AGAINST FRENCH.
I am against idiotic use of brain cells.
Pilots speak english....all of us!
Controllers speak english... all of em!
If there is someone on the frequency that does not speak french, ENGLISH should be used.... It's not cuz English is the language of aviation. It's common sense.

And with your "Superior" problems analysis/solving skill that you have just shown us, why speaking french in a french province would be more dangerous than flying NORDO in a non radar environment. Seen and being seen. Do you know what that mean??? And BTW, if you feel that flying in those kind of place where you could encounter those strange things that speak "french", you have the right to stay away of these VERY dangerous area.

Shhhh, i will reveal you something very "top secret"... Dont tell it to anyone... It is not everybody in this country, and on this planet" that speak English... And you know what? They have the right to fly, just like you!!!

Someone that state:

And before you francophones start...

And then say:

I am NOT AGAINST FRENCH.
I am against idiotic use of brain cells.
Pilots speak english....all of us!

It is not a very good way to start a respectful conversation on the subject and earn the respect of your french comrade!!!

People should turn their keyboard 7 times before writing anything.

[Sleeve of Wizard]

We've established that other languages are spoken on aviation frequencies elsewhere in the world. Are English Canadians the only ones in the world who complain about the second language?

[Panama Jack]

Skyguide, the Swiss ATC, controls flights over French terrritory from roughly Lyon east and Dole south. The Germans do not have the privilege to speak their native language above 10,000ft, if I'm not mistaken, due to losing the war.

Oops, you are about to open a can of worms with this statement!

[bmc]

Skyguide, the Swiss ATC, controls flights over French terrritory from roughly Lyon east and Dole south. The Germans do not have the privilege to speak their native language above 10,000ft, if I'm not mistaken, due to losing the war.

Oops, you are about to open a can of worms with this statement!

As told to me by a controller at Skyguide, who happens to be French Canadian. It's no big secret.

Lots of Brits flying over here. There are quite a few "N" registered airplanes here as well that are often rented to US license holders. You don't hear people whining about language over here. Lots of laughter over the wearing of religious symbols. With Berlusconi out of the picture, glad to see Marois fill the empty parking spot.The world was getting too serious for while.

[cpt.sam]

If you're worried about it sam, learn French.

perhaps i need that rosetta rock book?

[cpt.sam]

If you're worried about it sam, learn French.

Good suggestion. I doubt whining about it on Avcanada will change the world. It might. But I doubt it.

French is used in France and Switzerland up to 24,000 feet. English proficiency is a requirement to getting any pilots license in Europe.

This is an old topic. I'm guessing you are new to aviation, Sam?

Nope, not new
not looking to change the world on avcanada
I know many langauages are used world wide, repeating it here doesn't make any difference.
my question is;
WHY SHOULD A CONTROLLER NOT REVERT TO ENGLISH WHEN ENGLISH ONLY A/C ARE IN THE AIRSPACE?

[cpt.sam]

As was mentioned, French isn`t a foreign language. You might want to check the Official Languages Act where it discusses the two official languages in Canada. I`ll give a hint....French is one of them.

CARs 602.133
as mentioned previously, you're not a genius for discovering this
the question isn't if it's a reality or fallacy
the question is how can this detriment to safety be accepted?

[cpt.sam]

Part of me wishes we were forced to listen/speak more French in Canada. My high school French has long since languished so I am embarrassed to speak or even write it, and reading Wikipedia in French only gets me so far.

French was not mandatory for me. I took last french class in grade 6 possibly
It would have been much easier to learn the language as a child than now
- and no comments on still being a child please, that's only true on days off!