Addressing all ALPA Canada MECs on FLVCs

[Gilles Hudicourt]

On Oct 03, the Air Transat MEC, my colleague Martin Gauthier and myself will be in YOW addressing all other 8 ALPA MECs in Canada to try to convince them that allowing Transport Canada to issue FLVCs to foreign pilots for the purpose of flying Canadian commercial aircraft in Canada is not only contrary to the Canadian Aviation Regulations (CARs) but is wrong.

We must all unite to defend the value of our licences and ask that Transport Canada cease to issue Licence Validations to all foreign licensed pilots who apply to fly in Canada with foreign licences.

On September 10th, we made the same presentation in Winnipeg in front the Air Canada Pilot's Association (ACPA) who subsequently voted to support our position.

[termerair]

How ironic...! ACPA has agreed to support the "FLVC file" before ALPA Canada does...

ALPA pilots, how much do you pay a year in union contributions so your interests are defended...?

Thanks ACPA for joining!

T.

[Gilles Hudicourt]

We played the game, did the presentation but did not impress any of the ALPA representatives present.

There will be no ALPA-ACPA coalition on the FLVCs.

ALPA is on the record that that FLVCs to foreign pilots for revenue flights in Canada are not legal, but they think they are to be tolerated......... as some sort of price to pay to buy peace from Transport Canada.

A sad and dissapointing day in my life. I am pretty certain the other members of my team feel the same.

On a brighter note, when I got home, I found a nice letter from Air Transat congratulating me for my 15 years of servce at the company. Inside the enveloppe, was a gift certificate to the liquor store.

Thank you Air Transat. I think I'll go redeem my gift right away. The timing could not have been better. It will wash down the bitterness I feel right now.


Gilles Hudicourt

[CanadianEh]

Hang in there Gilles. It is difficult to spend so much time and effort on something so selfless only to get a lack of support.

Don't forget that there are many of us who admire what you have been doing for the cause.

[SymbolA310]

I respect your work Gilles, but let it go with the FLVC thing. I think you have been successfull until now.
See all the hiring at SW and the 20% rule on wet lease. You were always positive towards the one by one reciprocity and blocking the FLVC might put the companys in trouble bringing in their pilots.
That was a political descicion today.

[GRK]

Why does ALPA need some sort of peace treaty with TC? What does that have to do with the FLVC thing? Does ALPA negotiate anything at all with TC? Serious question...haven't been a part of ALPA for years and curious to know.
GRK

[single_swine_herder]

In gross oversimplification, it reduces to Mr. Ely telling us "Yes, I hear you, and you're correct in lots of ways .... but this is the way we're going because we choose to, and that's it. ..... Next question please."

It's the classic example of them choosing to regulate by policy (a process made up by people while slurping coffee in the lunch room) vs legislation and formal rule making.

After all, it takes too long to change those rules and regs the right way, so its ..... "Damn the torpedoes .... full speed ahead!"

[TrailerParkBoy]

You say ACPA voted unanimously against FLVCs, but being part of ALPA, I don't remember having a chance to vote against it! Why are ALPA MEC speaking for the mass?

[prop2jet]

Gilles, I commend you on the hard work and effort you have put into this cause. It is unfortunate that ALPA has chosen not to back one of it's "own". To be honest, I am not the least bit surprised. From what I am increasingly becoming aware of is that ALPA would prefer to stick to back room lobbying and politicking. Though there are many areas in which there is a lot of good done by the many ALPA volunteers the fact is that the membership of any given MEC has little to no say. There will come a day of reckoning though. How long are we going to contribute our dues to a Canadian Branch that takes it's orders from Herndon?

[bearinmind]

If you are an alpa member, go to your next meeting. Make a motion to recall any member that did not support Gilles position. Bring a friend and to second it. Play the game, remind the MEC's that they represent the people and not the easiest path to management. As an ALPA member, you have the responsibility to monitor your representitives, and if they don't represent you, you need to get someone who does.

I don't know a single pilot in Canada that thinks that Foreign pilots in Canada is a good idea, and that they are not doing damage to our industry. Don't let your union dish this out to you.

[Rogerdodger2]

I would like to remind everyone here that ACPA has done more to hurt Canadian Pilots in this country then a couple hundred FLVCs issued every year. Two pay scales within the same airline for pilots flying the same aircraft. ACPA has allowed AC to cut the average salaries of Canadian pilots almost in half. No one will every be hired to the main line in the future. AC has won the lottery, effectively reducing the cost of operating on the backs of pilots. Rethink your stance on FLVCs or Rouge will be your only option for work, at the same salary as a manager at Footlocker.

[termerair]

I would like to remind everyone here that ACPA has done more to hurt Canadian Pilots in this country then a couple hundred FLVCs issued every year. Two pay scales within the same airline for pilots flying the same aircraft. ACPA has allowed AC to cut the average salaries of Canadian pilots almost in half. No one will every be hired to the main line in the future. AC has won the lottery, effectively reducing the cost of operating on the backs of pilots. Rethink your stance on FLVCs or Rouge will be your only option for work, at the same salary as a manager at Footlocker.

[aerosexual]

I would like to remind everyone here that ACPA has done more to hurt Canadian Pilots in this country then a couple hundred FLVCs issued every year. Two pay scales within the same airline for pilots flying the same aircraft. ACPA has allowed AC to cut the average salaries of Canadian pilots almost in half. No one will every be hired to the main line in the future. AC has won the lottery, effectively reducing the cost of operating on the backs of pilots. Rethink your stance on FLVCs or Rouge will be your only option for work, at the same salary as a manager at Footlocker.

Roger is correct. The Foreign Pilot issue is one that needs to be monitored so that it is done fairly for all parties involved. However, I agree with Roger that ACPA and Air Canada have done far more damage to the pilot "profession" in recent history than anybody else. Now that Air Canada has a bid for their regional trans-border flying, let's see what more damage can be done there.

[termerair]

Rethink your stance on FLVCs or Rouge will be your only option for work...

Are you saying that FLVC's are the solution to the crappy conditions set by ACPA...?

I never said that ACPA did an awesome job on the Rouge/AC contract for pilots. I would never dare saying that as this is none of my business.

I just said that I am quite pleased with the position taken by ACPA regarding the FLVC file. They recognized that TC is not following its own laws and this is a big issue if you ask me! ALPA, on the other hand is saying it is ok to bend the rules and to import foreign licenced pilots while having many capable Canadian pilots available on the market. As an ALPA member, I was expecting more support from my union regarding an issue that directly affects me! If those FLVC's were not issued, I probably would not receive my pink slip in the mail box for the second time in one year.

ACPA might srew up on many things, but on this issue I found they took a decision that makes sense.

My 2 cents...

T.

[Musket]

"DELETED"

[Gilles Hudicourt]

Serious question!

Lets say that the Canadian government and all the unions agree and FLVCs are banned in Canada! Could other countries around the world then decide to reciprocate by not accepting Canadian licences anymore for validation in their countries?

Lots of us Canadian's out there flying on FLVCs issued by other ICAO countries using our Canadian licences

Just wondering!

Are they really ?

Most Canadians flying overseas had to obtain a licence in the country they are working in, be it China, the UAE, Qatar etc......

In Europe, FLVCs are a one shot deal in your lifetime, and its valid for a maximum of one year. The idea is to allow you to work while you work on the European exams.

Here is an excerpt from the Peoples Republic of China Regulations for example:

http://pilots.caac.gov.cn/school/upfile ... 2-2010.pdf

2. Requirement of Pilot License or License Verification
2.1 If the operational time limit of foreign pilot participating in the commercial flight
operations in aviation organization exceeds 120 calendar days, they shall obtain the
corresponding aircraft pilot license issued by CAAC according to CCAR-61.93.
2.2 If the operational time limit of foreign pilot participating the commercial flight
operations in aviation organization does not exceed 120 calendar days, they may obtain
Foreign Aircraft-pilot License Verification according to CCAR-61.95. The License
Verification is not renewable unless approved by Flight Standard Department of CAAC or
in case of pilot training carry out by aircraft manufacturer and ferry flight.
2.3 According to CCAR-61.95, for pilot holding foreign private pilot license, the
validation of his license verification may extend to the validity of this pilot license or to the
effective period remained after the recent inspection of license validity, whichever is
shorter.

In short, in China, a foreign licensed pilot can fly with an FLVC for 120 days, and that is a one shot deal. Beyond that, the foreigner must apply for and obtain a Chinese Licence.

In Canada, European pilots have been coming here every winter for years on FLVCs which TC hands out for one year each time. So in essence, some foreign licensed pilots have had a valid Canadian FLVC for several years........

We are unique in our permissiveness my friend .......

What I am asking for would not bring on retaliatory regulations from other countries as you suggested, rather it would bring Canada in line with what other countries are already doing and mostly, it would make Transport Canada apply the PRESENT CANADIAN AVIATION REGULATIONS, for do not forget, I am not asking that we change our regulations. All I ask is that we apply the regulations as they are written today.

[Gilles Hudicourt]

The position of the ALPA Canada Board gets weirder as this moves along.

I claim in late 2012 that FLVCs are not allowed for revenue flying under Part VII.
This claim is backed up by my colleague Martin Gauthier who was the person who brought Air Transat to ALPA and who was our MEC Chair for 8 years.
Several aviation law firms are consulted who all confirm the same thing: the CARs do not allow FLVCs for revenue flights under Part VII in Canada.

Dan Adamus himself, as President of the ALPA Canada Board agrees, for on March 20th 2013, he wrote a letter to Martin Eley, Director General of Civil Aviation, Transport Canada, stating the same thing.

Here is that letter.




On October 03, we made a presentation to the Air Canada Pilot Association (ACPA), asking them to join us in a coalition against this practice that Transport Canada has of issuing FLVC to foreign pilots for Revenue flights under Part VII in Canada. The ACPA members voted unanimously to join such a coalition.

Why is it today, that it is well established by all that FLVCs, as they are used by Canjet, Sunwing and several commercial helicopter companies for revenue flights in Canada under Part VII are contrary to the CARs, and that the ALPA Canada Board itself has already admitted that they are contrary to the CARs, as stated in their letter, that we have to fight our own union to make this an issue that they will fight ? Not only do they refuse to fight this problem, they actually fight against those, like me, who want to fight it. Why ?

Dan Adamus refuses to make the issue of the FLVC a public one and even kept his letter to Transport Canada secret until it was discovered months later through an access to information request. Never does the subject of the illegal FLVCs appear on any ALPA Canada Board publication, statement, public release or email to its members. This is a taboo subject at the ALPA Canada Board.

Who exactly is the ALPA Canada Board defending ? Me, who gives 1.95% of my pay to ALPA every month or other people who are not even members of ALPA ?

[Dark Helmet]

Gilles,

Did your ever consider the fact that ALPA Canada actually supports your fight against the foreign pilot issue. Maybe ALPA does not support the methods in which you are using to fight this issue.

For example, do you believe Dan appreciates the fact that you have posted one of his letters on a public forum? Did you have his consent for doing this?

Food for thought

[Gilles Hudicourt]

Gilles,

Did your ever consider the fact that ALPA Canada actually supports your fight against the foreign pilot issue. Maybe ALPA does not support the methods in which you are using to fight this issue.

For example, do you believe Dan appreciates the fact that you have posted one of his letters on a public forum? Did you have his consent for doing this?

Food for thought

ALPA supports the fight against foreign pilots all right, as long as we leave Transport Canada alone and look away as they illegally dish out FLVCs to foreign licenced pilots for Canjet, Sunwing.
ALPA wants to fight foreign pilots at CIC and HRSDC level but is defending Transport's Canada's role in this.

I think FLVCs are not to be used for revenue flying under Part VII
The ALPA Canada Board thinks the same
Most experts who looked at it think likewise.

We have a case where we all agree that Transport Canada is in violation of the CARs when they allow foreign pilots to use FLVCs for revenue flying but ALPA refuses to go to bat on this issue. They are PROTECTING Transport Canada. I will even go further. ALPA Canada went out on a limb on this issue and when the whole truth will be revealed, this unsustainable position they have dug themselves in, this corner they are painting themselves in will surely backfire in everyone's face, for I have do doubt that I am on the right side of the CARs and that my position will prevail........



As for the letter, anything one obtains through an Access to Information request from the Government becomes public. Thats the law. And that is how I obtained that letter. Which is why the Government labeled the document as having been released as such in the upper right corner.

Now if Dan had provided me a copy of that letter in confidence, that would have been a different matter. But he kept it secret, from me, from my MEC and from you.

Any idea why such a letter would be kept secret ? Food for thought.

[termerair]

This letter from the President of ALPA Canada and the Oct 3rd vote is what is called...



As for the "access to information" thing, I think we live in an amazing era...! And something tells me that more is to be discovered.

T.