Sunwing/Canjet fleet and foreign pilots, Winter 2013-2014

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Sunwing738
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Re: Sunwing/Canjet fleet and foreign pilots, Winter 2013-201

Post by Sunwing738 »

Well I've been doing some research... This winter WG plans 32 aircraft, 3 more then last years 29, which is roughly 42 extra flights per week assuming X2 daily, 7 days a week. This opens up a lot of extra capacity for higher frequencies on routes ect. Here's a list of their new flights operating this year for the first time:

Toronto - Curacao
WG720 YYZ0620 - CUR1225 738
WG721 CUR1325 - YYZ1745 738 - X1 Weekly Sunday Service (Effective Dec 15th/13)

Montreal - Aruba
WG708 YUL0900 - AUA1510 738
WG709 AUA1610 - YUL2040 738 - X1 Weekly Monday Service (Effective Dec 16th/13)

Toronto - Ixtapa
WG591 YYZ1505 - ZIH1935 738
WG592 ZIH2025 - YYZ0159+1 738 - X1 Weekly Monday Service (Effective Dec 16th/13)

Montreal - Huatulco - Ixtapa
WG557 YUL0730 - ZIH1455 738 (VIA HUATULCO)
WG558 ZIH1545 - YUL2140 738 - X1 Weekly Tuesday Service (Effective Dec 17th/13)

Edmonton - Ixtapa
WG591 YEG0930 - ZIH1600 738
WG592 ZIH1700 - YEG2145 738 - X1 Weekly Thursday Service (Effective Dec 19th/13)

Vancouver - Kelowna - Ixtapa
WG481 YLW0700 - ZIH1610 738 (VIA KELOWNA)
WG482 ZIH1710 - YLW2230 738 (VIA KELOWNA) X1 Weekly Thursday Service (Effective Dec 19th/13)

Edmonton - Freeport
WG742 YEG0800 - FPO1530 738
WG743 FPO1630 - YEG2030 738 - X1 Weekly Thursday Service (Effective Jan 16th/14)

Toronto - Freeport
WG702 YYZ0700 - FPO1020 738
WG705 FPO2220 - YYZ0140+1 738 - X1 Weekly Saturday Service (Effective Jan 18th/14)

Winnipeg - Freeport
WG704 YWG1600 - FPO2120 738
WG703 FPO1130 - YWG1500 738 - X1 Weekly Saturday Service (Effective Jan 18th/14)

Montreal - Freeport
WG710 YUL1650 - FPO2010 738
WG711 FPO2100 - YUL0020+1 738 - X1 Weekly Sunday Service (Effective Jan 19th/14)

Ottawa - Freeport
WG776 YOW0600 - 0930FPO 738
WG777 FPO1030 - 1400YOW 738 - X1 Weekly Sunday Service (Effective Jan 19th /14)

Halifax - Freeport
WG796 YHZ1630 - FPO1930 738
WG797 FPO2030 - YHZ0059+1 738 - X1 Weekly Friday Service (Effective Feb 14th/14)

In addition, I'm sure they are increasing frequencies on many routes. If anyone has any in-sight on new destinations or frequency changes please feel free to share them.

Sunwing Group recently purchased a hotel in Freeport, Bahamas and re-branded it as part of their "Memories" Hotel chain. They own a number of them in Cuba and now I guess are expanding. Westjet pulled X3 weekly YYZ-FPO service last year (IIRC) with only 1 hotel as an AI (All Inclusive) package option. Looking on WG's site they have multiple AI hotel packages available including Westjet's sole package provider last year. Lets see how Westjet responds to the competition...

Other then that the Montreal-Aruba and Toronto-Curacao routes were expected, there is still a void since Jazz lost the Thomas Cook Canada contract. The Ixtapa route has been tried in the past with Skyservice and Transat, I think Canjet operates that flight now so we'll see how that turns out.

Anyways just my two cents! The Winter 13/14 season is fast approaching and I can't wait!
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FICU
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Re: Sunwing/Canjet fleet and foreign pilots, Winter 2013-201

Post by FICU »

I can't wait too... for the confusion on the radio with the foreign pilots and their terrible english! I bet ATC can"t wait too!
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ea306
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Re: Sunwing/Canjet fleet and foreign pilots, Winter 2013-201

Post by ea306 »

FICU wrote:I can't wait too... for the confusion on the radio with the foreign pilots and their terrible english! I bet ATC can"t wait too!
Well at least you will be able to understand ATC English. ... I do not know if you have gone flying in other parts of the world... ATC in other parts of the world can also be challenging to understand at times.... It's good to get out there and travel a bit...
Sunwing738 wrote:Well I've been doing some research... This winter WG plans 32 aircraft, 3 more then last years 29, which is roughly 42 extra flights per week assuming X2 daily, 7 days a week. This opens up a lot of extra capacity for higher frequencies on routes ect. Here's a list of their new flights operating this year for the first time:

Toronto - Curacao
WG720 YYZ0620 - CUR1225 738
WG721 CUR1325 - YYZ1745 738 - X1 Weekly Sunday Service (Effective Dec 15th/13)

Montreal - Aruba
WG708 YUL0900 - AUA1510 738
WG709 AUA1610 - YUL2040 738 - X1 Weekly Monday Service (Effective Dec 16th/13)

Toronto - Ixtapa
WG591 YYZ1505 - ZIH1935 738
WG592 ZIH2025 - YYZ0159+1 738 - X1 Weekly Monday Service (Effective Dec 16th/13)

Montreal - Huatulco - Ixtapa
WG557 YUL0730 - ZIH1455 738 (VIA HUATULCO)
WG558 ZIH1545 - YUL2140 738 - X1 Weekly Tuesday Service (Effective Dec 17th/13)

Edmonton - Ixtapa
WG591 YEG0930 - ZIH1600 738
WG592 ZIH1700 - YEG2145 738 - X1 Weekly Thursday Service (Effective Dec 19th/13)

Vancouver - Kelowna - Ixtapa
WG481 YLW0700 - ZIH1610 738 (VIA KELOWNA)
WG482 ZIH1710 - YLW2230 738 (VIA KELOWNA) X1 Weekly Thursday Service (Effective Dec 19th/13)

Edmonton - Freeport
WG742 YEG0800 - FPO1530 738
WG743 FPO1630 - YEG2030 738 - X1 Weekly Thursday Service (Effective Jan 16th/14)

Toronto - Freeport
WG702 YYZ0700 - FPO1020 738
WG705 FPO2220 - YYZ0140+1 738 - X1 Weekly Saturday Service (Effective Jan 18th/14)

Winnipeg - Freeport
WG704 YWG1600 - FPO2120 738
WG703 FPO1130 - YWG1500 738 - X1 Weekly Saturday Service (Effective Jan 18th/14)

Montreal - Freeport
WG710 YUL1650 - FPO2010 738
WG711 FPO2100 - YUL0020+1 738 - X1 Weekly Sunday Service (Effective Jan 19th/14)

Ottawa - Freeport
WG776 YOW0600 - 0930FPO 738
WG777 FPO1030 - 1400YOW 738 - X1 Weekly Sunday Service (Effective Jan 19th /14)

Halifax - Freeport
WG796 YHZ1630 - FPO1930 738
WG797 FPO2030 - YHZ0059+1 738 - X1 Weekly Friday Service (Effective Feb 14th/14)

In addition, I'm sure they are increasing frequencies on many routes. If anyone has any in-sight on new destinations or frequency changes please feel free to share them.

Sunwing Group recently purchased a hotel in Freeport, Bahamas and re-branded it as part of their "Memories" Hotel chain. They own a number of them in Cuba and now I guess are expanding. Westjet pulled X3 weekly YYZ-FPO service last year (IIRC) with only 1 hotel as an AI (All Inclusive) package option. Looking on WG's site they have multiple AI hotel packages available including Westjet's sole package provider last year. Lets see how Westjet responds to the competition...

Other then that the Montreal-Aruba and Toronto-Curacao routes were expected, there is still a void since Jazz lost the Thomas Cook Canada contract. The Ixtapa route has been tried in the past with Skyservice and Transat, I think Canjet operates that flight now so we'll see how that turns out.

Anyways just my two cents! The Winter 13/14 season is fast approaching and I can't wait!
I am looking forward to this Winter Season also!
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FICU
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Re: Sunwing/Canjet fleet and foreign pilots, Winter 2013-201

Post by FICU »

Yup... Bogata center was painful but dealing with Russian military controllers on HF was the toughest.
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Sunwing738
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Re: Sunwing/Canjet fleet and foreign pilots, Winter 2013-201

Post by Sunwing738 »

Was poking around YYZ yesterday and from a distance saw a Travel Service 737-800 taxiing to terminal 1. Didn't catch the reg but it was parked at gate 163 or 165 (couldn't tell) for about 30-40 mins and then was towed to the infield. It was around 1500 ish when it landed and was towed to the infield at around 1600 just before Emirates landed. It was in full QS colours and to my knowledge the Sunwing dry-leases arrive already painted. (Stickered I should say) I'm assuming it is one of their QS wet-leases? Went through flightaware & flightstats and couldn't find anything about the aircraft. Does anyone know what the reg of said aircraft is and if it is in fact their first wet-lease of the season.

Also C-FYLC was ferried to Toronto on the 15th of October and has flown a few routes since then (YYZ-CUN, YYZ-VRA, YYZ-CUN) It flew as a wet-lease for Thomson over the summer.

Thanks.
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Gilles Hudicourt
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Re: Sunwing/Canjet fleet and foreign pilots, Winter 2013-201

Post by Gilles Hudicourt »

That Travel Service 737 you saw may just have been C-FTAH, painted in TS livery while on wet-lease to travel Service this summer.
It came back yesterday. Thanks for the heads up, its always appreciated.

http://www.planespotters.net/Aviation_P ... ?id=406868
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ea306
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Re: Sunwing/Canjet fleet and foreign pilots, Winter 2013-201

Post by ea306 »

One of two B737-800s operated by Canadian Sunwing crew in PRG for TVS...returning to Canada for the up coming winter season.
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Sunwing738
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Re: Sunwing/Canjet fleet and foreign pilots, Winter 2013-201

Post by Sunwing738 »

C-GVVH (Ex. OK-TVH) is now with Sunwing, first flight was this morning YYZ-NAS.
OK-TVG (Soon to be C-GTVG) Is currently over Greenland ferrying PRG-KEF-YYZ.

This totals the current fleet to 9 I believe. Still many more to come...

Edit: C-GTVG in new hybrid C/S.

Image
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Gilles Hudicourt
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Re: Sunwing/Canjet fleet and foreign pilots, Winter 2013-201

Post by Gilles Hudicourt »

Sunwing's fleet is now at 18 aircraft. With 210 pilots on staff, and 40 seasonal pilots, some of which have not completed their training, I imagine that Sunwing must be stretched very thin without foreign pilots. With 250 Canadian pilots, 19 to 20 aircraft is around the number of aircraft they can handle.

As far as I know, the foreign pilots have yet to receive their work permits. It seems that Sunwing has trained and done the line indoctrination of the foreign pilots although none of these pilots were in possession of their work permits.

If that is the case, they were working illegally in Canada. The test to determine if you are "working" or just "training" is not determined by what you are listed on the manifest, but wether you are paid or not by a Canadian company to perform a task in Canada.

So a foreigners who does not have a work permit but who comes to Canada to do a ground school, follow a course, take simulator, or do line indoctrination and/consolidation flights while:

1) being remunerated by Sunwing
2) Being lodged by Sunwing
3) Having their car rental being paid by Sunwing
4) Having their perdiem being paid by Sunwing

has violated Canadian Immigration laws for he/she has performed remunerated work in Canada for a Canadian company without a valid work permit. Yes being paid to study company procedures is considered "work". Thomson and Travel Services are not paying their pilots to study the Sunwing SOP in Canada.

But who is checking ?
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rudder
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Re: Sunwing/Canjet fleet and foreign pilots, Winter 2013-201

Post by rudder »

Gilles,

These pilots entered the country after clearing Canada customs and immigration. Are you suggesting that the immigration department is in on this as well?

You seem to believe that everybody involved is incompetent. That is a very arrogant attitude. The truth is probably more along the lines that everybody is aware of what is going on and simply does not share your interpretation of the law or statutes.

Fact of the matter is that the trend in this matter is clear and as a result more Canadian commercial pilots will be flying 737's than might otherwise have been the case had the visibility on this matter not been raised. If you had a part in that - and I would suggest that you have - then you should be satisfied that your efforts have provoked change.

I would now focus more on what the future will look like at AT.
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Gilles Hudicourt
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Re: Sunwing/Canjet fleet and foreign pilots, Winter 2013-201

Post by Gilles Hudicourt »

Rudder,

Holders of most EU passports enter Canada without a visa if:

1) for leisure
2) studies of less than 6 months.

That is how they enter Canada: on false pretences.

Remunerated activities for a Canadian employer require :

1) work permit
2) resident status
3) Canadian citizenship.

None of this is Gilles Hudicourt's interpretation of Canadian law, it is Canadian law.

How it was allowed to happen falls in line with:

1) How Sunwing was provided with reciprocal work permits for its foreign pilots when all it sent overseas was wet-leases
2) How Airlines were able to obtain LMOs stating there were no qualified Canadian pilots in Canada
3) How foreign pilots were never declared to the CRA who never collected pay deductions from any of them.
4) How Foreign pilots were provided with FLVCs although regulations dont' allow it.
5) How a Slovak 737 was able to do a series of flights in Canada although its operator had no Foreign Airline Operator's certificate in Canada

So now foreign pilots, as rumour has it, without work permits, are training and doing line indoc while being remunerated by Sunwing. There is nothing new or shocking here. It's all perfectly in line with what has been happening all along.

Now with regards to TSC. Please be more specific and I will gladly reply for I don't follow you.
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Last edited by Gilles Hudicourt on Fri Nov 15, 2013 8:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
rudder
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Re: Sunwing/Canjet fleet and foreign pilots, Winter 2013-201

Post by rudder »

Gilles Hudicourt wrote:
What does AT have to do with it ? I noticed you have been focusing on AT recently.
That is a long list of agencies to be accusing of incompetence.

In any case, the AT reference is that there seems to be a lot of change happening at AT, including an announcement of another B737 contractor for this winter (EnerJet). I hope that the change that is being implemented will have positive implications for the AT pilots but are you sure that there are not any threats closer to home?

Bonne chance a tout le monde.
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Gilles Hudicourt
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Re: Sunwing/Canjet fleet and foreign pilots, Winter 2013-201

Post by Gilles Hudicourt »

rudder wrote:That is a long list of agencies to be accusing of incompetence.
Did I say incompetence ? Please quote me then.

I fear that you reached your own conclusions, conclusions you are now attempting to attribute to me.
There are many thing I could have talked about. But I'm afraid that I've purposely and intelligently stayed clear of all that. I stick to facts, and regulations mostly.

EnerJet ? Any foreign pilots there ? Not that I've heard.

As for the rest of your post, I'm afraid I'm clueless to what you are insinuating so unless you spell it out, you'll have to do without my input.
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Last edited by Gilles Hudicourt on Sat Nov 16, 2013 5:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
Rogerdodger2
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Re: Sunwing/Canjet fleet and foreign pilots, Winter 2013-201

Post by Rogerdodger2 »

How do you know these pilots are being payed by SW????
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Re: Sunwing/Canjet fleet and foreign pilots, Winter 2013-201

Post by Ender »

Rudder:

It seems to me that your idea of relaxing oversight due to the minimal changes that have occurred is at best naive. This issue will require constant vigilance for many years to come, until the new "norms" (whatever they may be) have been firmly established.

Kudos, Gilles. You are a true inspiration, and every pilot on this board owes you a substantial debt. I foresee many free beers in your future. Keep up the good work.
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Gilles Hudicourt
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Re: Sunwing/Canjet fleet and foreign pilots, Winter 2013-201

Post by Gilles Hudicourt »

The last word I got a few days ago, Sunwing foreign pilots were still waiting for their work permits. Any word on that? Are they still waiting ? There are 16 Sunwing aircraft in the air as I post this. Are they all being flown by Canadians ?
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Last edited by Gilles Hudicourt on Thu Nov 21, 2013 12:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Sunwing/Canjet fleet and foreign pilots, Winter 2013-201

Post by Rogerdodger2 »

Gilles Hudicourt wrote:The last word I got a few days ago, Sunwing foreign pilots were still waiting for their work permits. Any word on that. Are they still waiting ? There are 16 Sunwing aircraft in the air as I post this. Are they all being flown by Canadians ?
There are Brazilians, Jamaicans, French, Indian, NewZelanders, South Africans, Irish, Scotish, English and many more full time pilots from other countries at Sunwing. So no, they're not all being flown by Canadians.
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Gilles Hudicourt
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Re: Sunwing/Canjet fleet and foreign pilots, Winter 2013-201

Post by Gilles Hudicourt »

The Sunwing fleet is now at 21 aircraft:
13 permanent year round aircraft
7 recently arrived aircraft which seem to be short term dry leases
1 wet lease

With 250 Canadian pilots and 20 dry-leased aircraft, Sunwing's current fleet is about as large as it can operate without making use of Foreign pilots.

The wet-lease is that is already in country id the first of 5 approved by the CTA. If any other non-wet lease aircraft arrive these days, they can only be operated by foreign crews on work permits.
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wyndham
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Re: Sunwing/Canjet fleet and foreign pilots, Winter 2013-201

Post by wyndham »

I think it's time to call the UN
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Sunwing738
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Re: Sunwing/Canjet fleet and foreign pilots, Winter 2013-201

Post by Sunwing738 »

Looks like Sunwing has a new marketing strategy this year featuring some of the major resorts that Sunwing Vacations offers packages too, with the exception of Worldline.ca. I'm sure these companies are paying to advertise on the plane though? Smart move by WG to garner some extra $$ over the winter?

To me this screams Skybus, the ULCC that went defunct a few years ago in the states, they had multiple advertisements on the interior cabin and on the outer paint scheme as well.

Personally I think it's very unprofessional for an airline.

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