WPPA.ca

[yycflyguy]

I would think those considering joining Encore would like to read the debate on mainline unionization. It would affect all new hires and their career decision to work through to mainline. Transparency is vital.

[culver10]

I strongly suggest that some posters here should review the Code of Business Conduct that they signed when accepting employment. Also when you accepted employment, you knew that you would helping to groom the back end on turns.

Please reflect on all of the crappy jobs that you did before ending up at WJ. Is WJ really all that bad??

[pacman007]

no more flow through if westjet unionizes?

[Old fella]

I strongly suggest that some posters here should review the Code of Business Conduct that they signed when accepting employment. Also when you accepted employment, you knew that you would helping to groom the back end on turns.

Please reflect on all of the crappy jobs that you did before ending up at WJ. Is WJ really all that bad??

Well....... anybody outside of the airline industry would probably say WJ isn't the only game in town and if their Code of Business culture could bother prospective employees well let said prospective employees concentrate their hiring efforts on an airline whose culture doesn't require it's up front flight crew to clean up the airplane after customer use. That's the simple answer I would think being an old senior citizen. If you may not like what WJ has to offer, don't apply. Ditto if you currently work there and you are bothered by it all, next opportunity move on................

[elvis]

It is obvious that the rank and file are not happy with the new direction management is trying to steer them towards. The strength of WestJet is their people and the company is jepordizing that valuable asset.

They said they would not meddle in the process and now they suspend road shows with low turnouts and delay the vote on the WJPA company leaning proposal.

Don,t break the great model.

Like the a/c Canadian merger the cockpit becomes dangerous with caustic discontent with what is being proposed.

[albatross]

Management (WJPA) had broken the pilots trust time and time again. No different this time around. Hopefully this time it bites them in the ass. We need proper representation, not ladder climbers. It's really that simple.

[CAL]

Management (WJPA) had broken the pilots trust time and time again. No different this time around. Hopefully this time it bites them in the ass. We need proper representation, not ladder climbers. It's really that simple.

What did they actually do?

[7thirtyseven]

Management (WJPA) had broken the pilots trust time and time again. No different this time around. Hopefully this time it bites them in the ass. We need proper representation, not ladder climbers. It's really that simple.

What did they actually do?

Well... There was this asskissing contest... Like a "teambuilding" excersise.... One managent type didnt understand that the unspoken rule was "no teeth". The place is on high alert. Facebook fotos of a hairy white (rather chubby) ass have appeared clearly showing teeth marks.
All the thinking pilots are outraged. The ass pictures demonatrate the ducttape had been removed, and the hairy white ass was a sitting duck. All good times. Quite civil actually. There has been no gun play, fisticuffs or damage (other than the teethmarks)

[double-j]

Management (WJPA) had broken the pilots trust time and time again. No different this time around. Hopefully this time it bites them in the ass. We need proper representation, not ladder climbers. It's really that simple.

What did they actually do?

Well... There was this asskissing contest... Like a "teambuilding" excersise.... One managent type didnt understand that the unspoken rule was "no teeth". The place is on high alert. Facebook fotos of a hairy white (rather chubby) ass have appeared clearly showing teeth marks.
All the thinking pilots are outraged. The ass pictures demonatrate the ducttape had been removed, and the hairy white ass was a sitting duck. All good times. Quite civil actually. There has been no gun play, fisticuffs or damage (other than the teethmarks)

And this, kids is why you don't drink and post!

[albatross]

I was going to say. Lol.

[jetav8r]

I've been reading the various posts and wondering what percentage within the pilot group or WestJetters in general (FA, MTCE, Office) are unhappy with the current situation at Encore and Mainline. There will always be some grumblings and discontent among the ranks doesn't matter where you work, but it seems (from the posts) the majority of Westjetters do not like the direction the company is going. Am I right in that thinking? Are pilots looking to jump ship? I still think WJ is one the the best gigs in the country. 17 years is still young in a companies lifetime. I forecast huge opportunities at WJ, Overseas, larger planes etc. Growing pains always hurt but the long run may be promising.

[complexintentions]

Just curious from masthead picture on the linked site, does WestJet have any female pilots?

For that matter, any pilots who aren't cheesy grinning white guys?

Not that there's anything with that, of course. Just wondering.

[Bede]

I've been reading the various posts and wondering what percentage within the pilot group or WestJetters in general (FA, MTCE, Office) are unhappy with the current situation at Encore and Mainline. There will always be some grumblings and discontent among the ranks doesn't matter where you work, but it seems (from the posts) the majority of Westjetters do not like the direction the company is going. Am I right in that thinking? Are pilots looking to jump ship? I still think WJ is one the the best gigs in the country. 17 years is still young in a companies lifetime. I forecast huge opportunities at WJ, Overseas, larger planes etc. Growing pains always hurt but the long run may be promising.

It's still the best gig in the country and a decent place to work. Sadly there is a lot more grumbling now than there was a few years ago. The complaining is almost as much as bad as it was at Jazz now which is too bad. I actually like the direction the company is going for the most part (other than a few missteps).

We're in the middle of a negotiation, and of course the company want's to pay less which I don't like. I don't take it personally, and despite the rah-rah Kool Aid, WJ is a business and has to maximize the return to their shareholders. No one is trying to screw us, but if the company knew we'd accept a 50% pay cut, they'd would go for it. We are most productive pilot group in North America. Productivity does translate to higher wages regardless of whether you make widgets, paint houses or fly airplanes.

The way I think, I'm the CEO of Bede Flying corporation. My wife and kids are the shareholders. I'm a capitalist pig just like our executives are. Everyone in my family invested a lot into my career (poor wages, missing holidays, etc) and my job as CEO is to maximize the return on our investment. I'll do pretty much anything to secure the success of WJA but my time off and the money I can spend on my family will need to be maximized.

[dhc#]

Productivity = Do more with less

Age old management vs. employee battle

[Black Cat]

Bede,

If I read right in you last post, your management wants to pay you less ? This would make it a concessionary contract in times of profit. What justification is there for a pay cut? Is there a trade off for lifestyle or other benefits or.....?

My only question is what happens in an economic downturn?

[CanadaEH]

I believe that the Executives are genuinely interested in reining costs now in preparation for the years ahead. If that means seeking a concessionary contract I don't know… What I do know is that many walls and barriers and internal "politics" has made WJ inefficient. Doing anything takes ages instead of the do-it-now mantra that used to exist. We need more risk-takers and less self-preservation.

[flyer 1492]

A friend of mine that works at West Jet said that the proposal was for a 3 year wage freeze with a 2% bonus paid based on 930 hours per year. If the WJPA is indorsing this deal, I would sack the lot of them and start over.

[FICU]

930 hours... wow! Westjet pilots are already the hardest working airline pilots in Canada and they want them to work even more?

[Lateralus]

930 hours... wow! Westjet pilots are already the hardest working airline pilots in Canada and they want them to work even more?

Actually that's the pay garauntee for the year not what you will be working necessarily. And it works out to 77.5 hours a month, not really that much.

[creepilot]

930 hours... wow! Westjet pilots are already the hardest working airline pilots in Canada and they want them to work even more?

Actually that's the pay garauntee for the year not what you will be working necessarily. And it works out to 77.5 hours a month, not really that much.

You never go on holidays???

[Lateralus]

930 hours... wow! Westjet pilots are already the hardest working airline pilots in Canada and they want them to work even more?

Actually that's the pay garauntee for the year not what you will be working necessarily. And it works out to 77.5 hours a month, not really that much.

You never go on holidays???

Do you know what a credit system is?

[Realitychex]

This is a tough one.

Everyone wants to see their paycheck increase every year. I would imagine those that chose to max out on the stock program have seen just that over the past year or so.

The bigger picture is the 800lb gorilla sitting in the corner.

As costs go up.....all costs......, the opportunity for an ULCC in Canada becomes greater and greater.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/spirit-ai ... 00044.html

Jetsgo was a very poorly thought out and executed attempt at a ULCC, but its existence in the marketplace was a major PITA for WJ and materially impacted its earnings for a couple of years.

It would be the height of arrogance to believe it would be impossible for anyone to successfully launch a Spirit knock off in Canada. People thought the same when WJ launched in 1996 and look what it did to the incumbent operations at the time. Every single one went banco.

No easy answers here, but all involved need to pay very close attention to the end game.

The best way of ensuring long term job security is to maintain a unit cost base that precludes anyone slipping in underneath you.

[CpnCrunch]

I think Realitychex has hit the nail on the head. Westjet hasn't really had much competition in recent years, due to AC's problems. Now that AC is starting to extricate themselves from their financial mess, they are making more profit rather than trying to undercut WJ. So right now there are two carriers making decent profits, and no real competition.

Perhaps it would make sense to grant bonus stock to all employees at the end of the year as part of their compensation, rather than increasing salaries. That would have a dual effect of reducing costs while increasing ownership of the company among employees (which in my opinion is a very good thing for everyone who has an interest in Westjet).

[fish4life]

Is no one talking about the elephant in the room that Westjet needs to keep expanding in order to support the ESP, if you have a bunch of employees buying stock with the company matching 20%, the day Westjet slows it's expansion / stops expanding they will have reached a maximum market value for the company and if you keep issuing stock all they are going to do is dilute the share price as they keep offering ESP with matching to employees. I'm not sure if it's going to happen this year, next or 10 years from now but they can't keep up expanding forever.

[JSYK]

Is no one talking about the elephant in the room that Westjet needs to keep expanding in order to support the ESP, if you have a bunch of employees buying stock with the company matching 20%, the day Westjet slows it's expansion / stops expanding they will have reached a maximum market value for the company and if you keep issuing stock all they are going to do is dilute the share price as they keep offering ESP with matching to employees. I'm not sure if it's going to happen this year, next or 10 years from now but they can't keep up expanding forever.

ESP is not issued from treasury, it is purchased on the open market. It is a cost just the same as salary or other benefits. Its linear, no danger of that you suggest fish4life.

WJ tried issuing for it for several months, several years ago, it was a mistake and CFO at the time admitted it was because of dilution.

WestJet firmly believes they can expand for ever, just like every other airline out there. However, the fact is, at some point they won't, probably after they have too many airframes and the economy hits a big bump.

Options are a bit of an issue since they are widely issued. The formulas used are based on growth projections. Less growth means many more options must be issued or vesting periods greatly increased. But, even there, cashless exercising under the SOP greatly reduces the number of shares that have to be issued for each exercise. But, TSX goes by number outstanding options under its listing guidelines, not the net amount that would occur via cashless exercising.