Ice Pilots Season 5 discussion...

[CFR]

Can anyone tell me why they cannot buy a de-ice truck??? Having these guys walk up on these wings in the winter seems a little bit crazy....seriously buckets and mops?? Our SMS dept would be having a fit if they saw this!! I'm gonna assume they are working at a height of over 6ft which would require them to be tied off somehow? I'm pretty sure thats law? Does anyone else have to do this?

I'm surprised too that Labour Canada doesn't issue direction from the comfort of their warm Ottawa offices based on the video alone!

[Colonel Sanders]

I can only imagine the number of registered
letters they've received, based on the footage
and editting ...

[Roar]

I agree it seems dangerous and a WCB claim waiting to happen.
But here is how they get away with it. Specifically 12.10 (1.1)

http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regu ... ml#s-12.10

Fall-Protection Systems
12.10 (1) Subject to subsection (1.1), every employer shall provide a fall-protection system to any person, other than an employee who is installing or removing a fall-protection system in accordance with the instructions referred to in subsection (5), who works
(a) from an unguarded structure or on a vehicle, at a height of more than 2.4 m above the nearest permanent safe level or above any moving parts of machinery or any other surface or thing that could cause injury to a person on contact;
(b) from a temporary structure at a height of more than 6 m above a permanent safe level; or
(c) from a ladder at a height of more than 2.4 m above the nearest permanent safe level where, because of the nature of the work, that person is unable to use at least one hand to hold onto the ladder.
(1.1) Where an employee is required to work on a vehicle on which it is not reasonably practicable to provide a fall-protection system, the employer shall
(a) in consultation with the policy committee or, if there is no policy committee, the work place committee or the health and safety representative,
(i) perform a job safety analysis to eliminate or minimize the need for the employee to climb onto the vehicle or its load, and
(ii) provide every employee who is likely to climb onto the vehicle or its load with training and instruction on the safe method of climbing onto and working on the vehicle or its load;
(b) make a report in writing to the regional health and safety officer setting out the reasons why it is not reasonably practicable to provide a fall-protection system and include the job safety analysis and a description of the training and instruction referred to in paragraph (a); and
(c) provide a copy of the report referred to in paragraph (b) to the policy committee or, if there is no policy committee, the work place committee or the health and safety representative.
(1.2) The job safety analysis, training and instruction referred to in paragraph (1.1)(a) shall be reviewed every two years in consultation with the policy committee or, if there is no policy committee, the work place committee or the health and safety representative.

[MUSKEG]

I imagine the most likely reason for the mop and pail de-ice is cost. You can easily pump 200 liters onto big wings like that and it's hardly shows. Only de-icing areas that need it is simply economics. It can cost 20 bucks or it can cost 2000 bucks and accomplish the same results. Joe never was one to throw money away because everyone else was doing it.

[Lotro]

I'm sure the editing was exaggerated to make it worse, but I don't understand why they wouldn't put the airplane in the (heated?) hangar for a bit before scraping the ice off. It just seemed silly to me that (according to the narrator) you'd leave a plane out for a bunch of days in the cold and let it get covered in ice and snow and then clean that off by hand out in the freezing weather.

I love the show, even though it's often over the top.

[turbo-prop]

Could always use a pressure washer on a truck or trailer and a scissor lift.

[shimmydampner]

I'd really hate to be grossing close to a million in Canada

Yeah, talk about a real bummer.

[CFR]

I agree it seems dangerous and a WCB claim waiting to happen.
But here is how they get away with it. Specifically 12.10 (1.1)

http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regu ... ml#s-12.10

Fall-Protection Systems
12.10 (1) Subject to subsection (1.1), every employer shall provide a fall-protection system to any person, other than an employee who is installing or removing a fall-protection system in accordance with the instructions referred to in subsection (5), who works
(a) from an unguarded structure or on a vehicle, at a height of more than 2.4 m above the nearest permanent safe level or above any moving parts of machinery or any other surface or thing that could cause injury to a person on contact;
(b) from a temporary structure at a height of more than 6 m above a permanent safe level; or
(c) from a ladder at a height of more than 2.4 m above the nearest permanent safe level where, because of the nature of the work, that person is unable to use at least one hand to hold onto the ladder.
(1.1) Where an employee is required to work on a vehicle on which it is not reasonably practicable to provide a fall-protection system, the employer shall
(a) in consultation with the policy committee or, if there is no policy committee, the work place committee or the health and safety representative,
(i) perform a job safety analysis to eliminate or minimize the need for the employee to climb onto the vehicle or its load, and
(ii) provide every employee who is likely to climb onto the vehicle or its load with training and instruction on the safe method of climbing onto and working on the vehicle or its load;
(b) make a report in writing to the regional health and safety officer setting out the reasons why it is not reasonably practicable to provide a fall-protection system and include the job safety analysis and a description of the training and instruction referred to in paragraph (a); and
(c) provide a copy of the report referred to in paragraph (b) to the policy committee or, if there is no policy committee, the work place committee or the health and safety representative.
(1.2) The job safety analysis, training and instruction referred to in paragraph (1.1)(a) shall be reviewed every two years in consultation with the policy committee or, if there is no policy committee, the work place committee or the health and safety representative.

"reasonably practicable" is the key here. There are numerous ways to prevent falls off of aircraft. Additionally to opt out requires the remainder of the steps be done. Clearly the alternate method of prevention does not work as the employee fell!

[frozen solid]

I'm sure the editing was exaggerated to make it worse, but I don't understand why they wouldn't put the airplane in the (heated?) hangar for a bit before scraping the ice off. It just seemed silly to me that (according to the narrator) you'd leave a plane out for a bunch of days in the cold and let it get covered in ice and snow and then clean that off by hand out in the freezing weather.

I love the show, even though it's often over the top.

Just popping the aircraft into the hangar for a bit would actually prove to be quite expensive: You open the doors and let out all the nice warm air to move the plane in there, allow it to warm up enough to melt the ice, then open the doors again and let out all that heat one more time. I've done it of course, the odd time it's really necessary, but you sure wouldn't want it to be your regular plan for a bit of routine de-icing. The furnace has to run for a long time to heat 'er back up. Also, Buffalo engineers seem to be a pretty tough breed, but at my work the engineers would all dive for cover until it warmed back up in there. No offense intended of course, so would I!

[complexintentions]

I'd really hate to be grossing close to a million in Canada

Yeah, talk about a real bummer.

You should try making a million outside of Canada, you actually get to keep it. Sorry you missed the point. lol

[complexintentions]

And where the hell can I download this fine show anyway?! Sure it's a bit duelling banjo Canadian aviation white trash-ish but it sure as hell is entertaining. Makes me nostalgic, almost.

[Taiser]

And where the hell can I download this fine show anyway?! Sure it's a bit duelling banjo Canadian aviation white trash-ish but it sure as hell is entertaining. Makes me nostalgic, almost.

History channel web lets you watch some of them by streaming. Some come up on bit torrent sites but take a while since they are not popular enough to get world wide demand so it's hit and miss which ones get a torrent...

[sidestick stirrer]

" I don't understand why they wouldn't put the airplane in the (heated?) hangar for a bit"

maybe there is not enough room with Joe's car collection in there?

[martinez]

For those out of country or without cable; heres a link to the torrent http://thepiratebay.sx/search/ice%20pil ... e01/0/99/0

Not sure on the quality, I just PVRed it.

[howard40]

Seem to not be able to watch online? where anyone seeing it?
history says "playing now" so i can not seem to watch online?

[CpnCrunch]

Seem to not be able to watch online? where anyone seeing it?
history says "playing now" so i can not seem to watch online?

Seems to work for me. Here is a direct link to the first episode of this season:

http://www.icepilots.com/episode5_1.php

Check to make sure you're not using any ad blocking software, which can screw it up. Also try using a different browser (Chrome seems to work well for me). It also won't likely work if you're located outside Canada.

[MrWings]

Those guys on the icy wing are fools for agreeing to perform unsafe work. The law is on your side here.

Besides, if one their fat arses slipped and fell and landed on the wing, wouldn't that possibly damage the airplane? I wouldn't want those clowns on rollerskates on my airplane.

[Adiabatic]

Joe would lose his crap if the engineers were working on an airplane and had to button it up, put it outside, let it freeze, put in the other airplane over night, then take it out in the morning, and let the engineers work on a frozen airplane, in which case they won't for a few hours at least because the want it to warm up first.

It all reflects on the pilots and their pre-planning. The only way you can get away with putting an aircraft in the hangar overnight is if it was freezing rain or snow/rain mix overnight, or if the airplane was in the hangar in the first place and it's going out first thing in the morning, or if its doing a %^$ pile of work and needs to be ready first thing in the morning every day so they can fire off as many trips a day as possible.

Sorry for the bad grammar!!

And by no means is what they do right, its their company culture and change has to being at the top!

AB

[J31]

Hmmm......after spending the better part of a day trying to clean to ice off the 4 they ended up putting it in the hangar overnight to de-ice. Looked like Joe's call.

[FICU]

It'll take one of these clowns to fall and break their neck before they will get a proper deice rig. Remember aviation is risk management and a broken arm or busted face isn't worth the cost of a safe operation.

Why these guys don't flat out refuse to walk on a frost covered wing with deice fluid on it is beyond me.

[Maynard]

Why is no one talking about how good of a 3rd/4th liner Chris Neal is?

[shimmydampner]

Why these guys don't flat out refuse to walk on a frost covered wing with deice fluid on it is beyond me.

What's the big deal? They were wearing their Class 2 retro-reflective panty-liners...what's the worst that could have happened? I was told those things are for safety.

[shaune]

I like watching it to get a glimpse of Joe's car collection. Saw an early 70s green Camaro in the corner on show #2. Seems out of place for his collector car of preference, which is 1950s models.

[frozen solid]

Why these guys don't flat out refuse to walk on a frost covered wing with deice fluid on it is beyond me.

What's the big deal? They were wearing their Class 2 retro-reflective panty-liners...what's the worst that could have happened? I was told those things are for safety.

Maybe the reflective stripe needs to be 2.5 inches wide. We should consult with the health and safety committee.

[Driving Rain]

I like watching it to get a glimpse of Joe's car collection. Saw an early 70s green Camaro in the corner on show #2. Seems out of place for his collector car of preference, which is 1950s models.

Photo I took of Joes pride and joy.