703/704 operations

[tractor747]

Hi guys,

703 operations you can operate less than 10 passengers.
704 ops is 10 - 19 passengers. Can you operate an airplane under 703 with a single otter with 9 seats instead of the 10 that it holds as long as you specify it in the ops manual?

I m waiting to hear from TC but I'd thought to ask here from others that might have experienced it.

Thanks

[Krimson]

As long as more than 9 seats are prevented from being occupied.

Having only 9 seats installed would allow you to run 703

[tractor747]

As long as more than 9 seats are prevented from being occupied.

Having only 9 seats installed would allow you to run 703

thank you for the response.

Do the nine seats include the 2 pilot seats?

[single_swine_herder]

It does not refer to number of seats, but number of passengers. Nine is the maximum ..... the aircraft can weight up to 19,000 lbs, but not carry more than 9 passengers. Number of seats installed is not the regulation. Some operators block off the spare seats with signs, tape, or who knows what to signal that the max number of people on board is limited to 9.

If you had a Flight Crew of two, that would mean a total of 11 seats would be warmed by rumps.

Clear on that now?

[tractor747]

It does not refer to number of seats, but number of passengers. Nine is the maximum ..... the aircraft can weight up to 19,000 lbs, but not carry more than 9 passengers. Number of seats installed is not the regulation. Some operators block off the spare seats with signs, tape, or who knows what to signal that the max number of people on board is limited to 9.

If you had a Flight Crew of two, that would mean a total of 11 seats would be warmed by rumps.

Clear on that now?

Thank you!

[Lemon]

For 703 ops it is actually number of seats. You cannot have the airplane equipped with more than nine seats. You could technically carry 18 passengers if 9 of them were infants.

[single_swine_herder]

Correct Lemon ...... 9 passenger seats, excluding pilots seat(s.)

[Krimson]

The plane can be equipped with more than 9 seats, but any more must be blocked off. You could ferry an empty 19 pax aircraft as 703.

[dash8dave]

The way I read 703.01

This Subpart applies in respect of the operation by a Canadian air operator, in an air transport service or in aerial work involving sightseeing operations, of any of the following aircraft:
(a) a single-engined aircraft; (emphasis mine)
(b) a multi-engined aircraft, other than a turbo-jet-powered aeroplane, that has a MCTOW of 8 618 kg (19,000 pounds) or less and a seating configuration, excluding pilot seats, of nine or less;
(b.1) a multi-engined helicopter certified for operation by one pilot and operated under VFR; and
(c) any aircraft that is authorized by the Minister to be operated under this Subpart.

Single engined aircraft are 703 ONLY; no matter how many seats installed.

704.01 This Subpart applies in respect of the operation by a Canadian air operator, in an air transport service or in aerial work involving sightseeing operations, of any of the following aircraft:
(a) a multi-engined aeroplane that has a MCTOW of 8 618 kg (19,000 pounds) or less and a seating configuration, excluding pilot seats, of 10 to 19 inclusive; (emphasis mine to hi-lite)
(b) a turbo-jet-powered aeroplane that has a maximum zero fuel weight of 22 680 kg (50,000 pounds) or less and for which a Canadian type certificate has been issued authorizing the transport of not more than 19 passengers;
(b.1) a multi-engined helicopter with a seating configuration, excluding pilot seats, of 10 to 19 inclusive, unless it is certified for operation with one pilot and operated under VFR; and
(c) any aircraft that is authorized by the Minister to be operated under this Subpart.

704 doesn't mention single-engined aircraft at all.

So to me, the above answers were a combination of both 703 and 704 operations. If I am wrong, let me know. Cheers.

[kev994]

The way I read 703.01

Single engined aircraft are 703 ONLY; no matter how many seats installed.

Concur with this as it was covered in aerocourse yesterday . Apparently one of the operators in victoria harbor has 11 pax seats under 703. Cozy but legal given that its single engine. You can fill the seats.

[CD]

Sometimes it isn't quite that easy... you also have to review the other regulatory requirements, such as the following:

703.24 Number of Passengers in Single-engined Aircraft

No air operator shall operate a single-engined aircraft with more than nine passengers on board unless

(a) the aircraft is a transport category helicopter;
(b) the air operator is authorized to do so in its air operator certificate; and
(c) the air operator complies with the Commercial Air Service Standards.

As for the Commercial Air Service Standards, there is one for aeroplanes and one for helicopters, as follow:

723.24 Number of Passengers in Single-Engined Aeroplanes

Operations Specifications for carrying more than 9 passengers in a single-engine aircraft are not applicable to aeroplanes.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
723.24 Number of Passengers in Single-Engine Aircraft

The standard for operating a single-engine helicopter where more than nine (9) passengers are carried is:

The pilot shall have successfully completed the required single-engine Pilot Proficiency Check on one of the single-engine helicopter types operated by the air operator which is to be operated carrying more than nine (9) passengers.

Then, of course, there is the following advisory circular that is specific to the DHC3T aeroplane:

Advisory Circular 0134 - Carriage of More Than Nine Passengers in Single-engine Aeroplanes

This Air Carrier Advisory Circular (ACAC) contains an additional means of compliance for operators of DHC3T aeroplanes. It will clarify the provisions in the Canadian Aviation Regulations (CARs) and Commercial Air Service Standards (CASS) concerning carriage of more than nine passengers in a single-engine aeroplane.

REFERENCE

CAR 703.24 and CASS 723.24.

BACKGROUND

CAR 703.24 limits to nine the number of passengers that may be carried in a single-engine aeroplane on a commercial air service. This conforms to both the accepted international standard for single-engine aeroplanes in commercial service and the Federal Aviation Regulation (FAR) 23 certification standard to which Canada subscribes. DHC3 Otters in commercial service in Canada were, however, certificated according to the earlier American Civil Aviation Regulations 3 standard, and the Type Certificate may authorize carriage of up to 16 passengers, depending on the particular model.

Currently there are two situations under which DHC3 aeroplanes regulated by CAR 703 Air Taxi Operations carry more than nine passengers in Canadian commercial service.

First, reciprocating engine-powered DHC3s operated by certain air operators, although configured for nine passengers in the cabin, often carry a tenth passenger in the right crew seat.

Second, DHC3T aeroplanes converted to turbine power routinely carry in excess of nine passengers, up to the maximum number authorized in the Supplemental Type Certificate for the conversion.

Both situations are exceptional, since the CARs will require multi-engine aeroplanes carrying more than nine passengers to operate according to the higher standards contained in CAR 704 Commuter Operations and CASS 724. This higher standard, for example, requires operation with two pilots and more training.

Several options for dealing with this anomaly were proposed by the Canadian Aviation Regulation Advisory Committee, and the decision of Transport Canada’s Regulatory Committee was detailed in the original version of this ACAC. Following publication of the ACAC, industry presented proposals for amendments to the policy. These have been considered, and the amended policy is found below.

YMMV...