YAM 208

[DHC-1 Jockey]

Keeping in mind I have no experience whatsoever with the 208 or its autopilot, and assuming the ELT starting going off near YXL AFTER it crashed (hearing conflicting reports on that one), I have come up with two possibilities for why the aircraft turned for those who are considering the D.B. Cooper theory.

1. The pilot jumped out long before the aircraft turned from a westerly to a northerly heading. The pilot programmed in 2 waypoints into the GPS and had the aircraft fly on the autopilot west until reaching the first point and then turn north towards the second. Due to the turn it could easily be assumed that the pilot was in fact on board at the turn point, but who can say for sure?

2. The pilot flew west to a predetermined point (stashed car, supplies, etc) at which he exited the aircraft but turned the aircraft north just before jumping. Having the aircraft fly north into an increasingly remote area gives additional time for escape until a team can reach the crash site and verify if the pilot was onboard at the time of the crash.

[JigglyBus]

or

3. The aircraft didn't in fact turn, but rather flew a straight line from take-off to crash location.

[Doc]

or

3. The aircraft didn't in fact turn, but rather flew a straight line from take-off to crash location.

Except that, if you draw a line from takeoff to site of crash, the point at which the ELT wen off, is nowhere near that line.

Another question....if it were a simple suicide, there's Lake Superior.....

[pdw]

"Straight line" from YAM to the ditching is on a NNW track (the A.S.N. location). It's NNE if tracking there from YXL, and from YAM to YXL is NW ...

[JigglyBus]

or

3. The aircraft didn't in fact turn, but rather flew a straight line from take-off to crash location.

Except that, if you draw a line from takeoff to site of crash, the point at which the ELT wen off, is nowhere near that line.

Another question....if it were a simple suicide, there's Lake Superior.....

Says who?

[Redneck_pilot86]

or

3. The aircraft didn't in fact turn, but rather flew a straight line from take-off to crash location.

Except that, if you draw a line from takeoff to site of crash, the point at which the ELT wen off, is nowhere near that line.

Another question....if it were a simple suicide, there's Lake Superior.....

Says who?

It is common knowledge that Lake Superior is where it is. If it was a simple suicide...thats a much faster/easier option than flying all the way to Hudson Bay.

I wouldn't put a whole lot of faith in an initial ELT position report, I have seen them off by hundreds of miles on more than one occasion, even with the new ones.

[JigglyBus]

or

3. The aircraft didn't in fact turn, but rather flew a straight line from take-off to crash location.

Except that, if you draw a line from takeoff to site of crash, the point at which the ELT wen off, is nowhere near that line.

Another question....if it were a simple suicide, there's Lake Superior.....

Sorry. I meant says who to that

[Doc]

or

3. The aircraft didn't in fact turn, but rather flew a straight line from take-off to crash location.

Except that, if you draw a line from takeoff to site of crash, the point at which the ELT wen off, is nowhere near that line.

Another question....if it were a simple suicide, there's Lake Superior.....

Sorry. I meant says who to that

Okay, the airplane departed YAM, the ELT went off north of YXL. Draw a line from one to another. Keep going and you're nowhere near Hudson Bay.

[JigglyBus]

Okay, the airplane departed YAM, the ELT went off north of YXL. Draw a line from one to another. Keep going and you're nowhere near Hudson Bay.

Same question.

[GUMPS]

Okay, the airplane departed YAM, the ELT went off north of YXL. Draw a line from one to another. Keep going and you're nowhere near Hudson Bay.

Same question.

Okay do you have some knowledge you'd like to share here? Or are you just going to keep asking the same question.

I do agree if he was planning on putting himself in the drink Superior is a lot closer.

[JigglyBus]

I am always curious/confused where this misinformation comes from.

I suspect that someone on here just makes it up, states it as a fact, and everyone believes it.

It certainly isn't a fact in this case.

But then again I'm just another random poster, so, you'll have to choose who to believe.

[Johnny#5]

^ ...it's him!!!!!!

[frozen solid]

I suppose ol' Jigglybus is trying to ask Doc where he learned the location that the ELT went off.

^ ...it's him!!!!!!

Now that's interesting. If I had decided to make myself disappear by hopping out of an aeroplane before it crashed far away, I'm not sure I'd be able to resist the urge to gleefully read "AvCanada" and watch everyone argue about what might have become of me.

[pdw]

I suppose ol' Jigglybus is trying to ask Doc where he learned the location that the ELT went off.

Somewhere in the media it was reported going off 'north of YXL', and when making a straight line from YAM to the site where the Caravan's debris was found, the second half of that line on a map is all 'north of YXL'.

[GyvAir]

The only media I saw any mention of the ELT going off north of Sioux Lookout was.. AvCanada. I haven't seen any sources cited.
I googled this story quite a bit out of its potential DB Cooperesque intrigue, wondering if more to the story would come out. Can't say I read every news story on it, but quite a few.

From the locked AvCanada thread on this story:

"Flying into thunder bay on Wednesday afternoon around 3 pm ATC kept asking people to tune to 121.5 as they were trying to coordinate where a signal was coming from. They said, at the time, they believed it to be around Cat Lake. Was it this pilot's ELT going off enroute?"

Wouldn't be surprised if this was how the YXL angle to the story got started here.

[pdw]

Sure, a good chance more than a few aircraft around CYXL responded .. except they wouldn't have guessed at first it was an airborne signal, let alone at what (higher) altitude . To the Northeast of Sioux Lookout (east/northeast of Cat lake) there was not likely to be as much air traffic responding to the call as around or to/from YXL

ELTs are usually stationary targets to home in on. To attempt a fix on this moving target at the beginning would certainly have led to some confusion, and not surprisingly it would take some aligning to get it right. If the early part of getting the fix was hit & miss, there's no telling how accurately it can be interpolated afterward as to where it was exactly.

The Caravan's groundspeed would have been fairly high even at an endurance power setting, in seeing it was heading towards the LO located offshore near Arviat, so not much more than half-fuel is needed for the distance given ... with cruise not set too high.

[bodyflyer]

[Edited: Mods said they would delete the post due to naming the pilot. Not sure why the big mystery. Family can't really stop speculation. But whatever... So I deleted the name, and the photo of him too.]

This accident with ###### ####### is quite the mystery.
Yes he was a skydiver; I'm guessing 100 jumps maybe, likely not more than 200, but that's a guess from the timeline & his equipment. I had packed his reserve parachute a couple times, and jumped at the dropzone he started at (where he also flew for the DZ). He later started jumping elsewhere. I hadn't seen him for a year and a half before the accident.

He would not be considered an expert in todays skydiving world, but he would be licensed and competent at the basics and owned his own equipment. Of course that might have nothing to do with what happened to him.

Attached is a pic from when I was coaching him almost exactly 3 years ago before he got his license. [Edit: deleted pic] I think the stealth look [all in black] is accidental on a day with snow on the ground and a rig that happened to be all black! Seemed a nice enough guy.

[AOW]

.

[180]

If this young man was indeed suicidal, then my condolences to the family and friends. Depression and/or psychiatric issues are very sad and sensitive issues to navigate.

If, however, this was a "need to exit stage left and reset" scenario, which I'm sure his family and friends would probably prefer to hope for, then maybe posting his name and a photograph is the right thing to do, seeing as this forum is full of people who frequent airports and remote locations, in the hopes of a sighting.

Embarrassment and legal issues should be small potatoes, and I for one would rather deal with that and see my son/brother/uncle alive and in trouble rather than the alternative.

Hoping for a positive outcome.

[YCR_09]

The operator is first class and this accident appears to have nothing to do with their operation.

There is a tendency to hide any and all relevant information so that the "bad news"
blows over.

The facts are, the Operator did not authorize what the press called a "training flight",
in one article and in another it was referred to as a "test flight".
Another official report again called it a "training flight".

and "left radar at about 5:30 p.m. Wednesday."


Morningstar Air Express however says it was an unscheduled flight.

"debris consistent with a plane crash has been located in the waters of Hudson Bay"

"The RCAF says the pilot was out of communication during the flight."

(Unofficial sources say the ELT came on near Sioux Lookout)

that is the 'young pilot' took the Cessna Caravan and departed Sault St. Marie Ontario
and while flying over one of the few roads north east of Sioux, the ELT came on, stayed on
until running out of fuel and crashing 500 K east of Churchill, north east of Fort Severn.



David Elias, a public affairs officer with the Royal Canadian Air Force, says the Joint Rescue Coordination Centre in Trenton, Ont., began co-ordinating a search that evening at about 5 p.m. ET after the plane’s emergency beacon was activated 1,200 kilometres north of Sault Ste. Marie.

"Initial reports also suggested the pilot was not communicating via radio and the test flight was was suppose to be short and return to Sault Ste. Marie."

Did he climb to altitude, put on the autopilot and become hypoxic?


The pilot was apparently highly experienced with a parachute.

The facts leading to this accident are anything other than ordinary.


Morningstar is well known as one of the classier Canadian operators of single pilot Caravans.

[Diadem]

Where does this report about the ELT going on near YXL come from? I haven't been able to find anything about that except on this forum, and as the previous poster wrote it's an "unofficial" report. The wreckage was found almost directly north of YAM according to news reports, so it seems that a lot of people on here are jumping to conclusions based on rumours and hearsay that have no basis in fact. Until someone can present to me a reliable source indicating that the ELT went off far to the west of the direct track from YAM to Hudson Bay I won't give any validity to that claim.

[pdw]

You pretty much need to draw a diagram to understand it.

[cdnpilot77]

Where does this report about the ELT going on near YXL come from? I haven't been able to find anything about that except on this forum, and as the previous poster wrote it's an "unofficial" report. The wreckage was found almost directly north of YAM according to news reports, so it seems that a lot of people on here are jumping to conclusions based on rumours and hearsay that have no basis in fact. Until someone can present to me a reliable source indicating that the ELT went off far to the west of the direct track from YAM to Hudson Bay I won't give any validity to that claim.

In the original thread there was discussion surrounding ATC mentioning of an ELT signal in the vicinity of YXL and YAC to other aircraft operating in that area. That's where this "report" comes from

[Diadem]

In the original thread there was discussion surrounding ATC mentioning of an ELT signal in the vicinity of YXL and YAC to other aircraft operating in that area. That's where this "report" comes from

So there hasn't been any official confirmation that this is where the ELT was when it went off? It's based solely on pilots being asked by ATC whether they heard the ELT, and people are concluding that the ELT was where those pilots were? Not only is this not a very reliable source, but it's far from conclusive that the missing aircraft was anywhere near YXL; ATC was searching for it, and no doubt they looked all over northern Ontario. The fact there wasn't anyone to ask about it to the northeast of YAM, or that no one has come forward to say they were asked, doesn't mean the search wasn't going on around Timmins and Moosonee too.

[cdnpilot77]

There is also no official confirmation that it wasn't exactly where they were asking other aircraft for their assistance. I don't think you can draw any conclusion one way or the other from this informatin but it certainly offers a lot of possibilities.