Irony Bush sticking his nose in other people's elections...

[Dex]

Do you know what it take to get your Wings in any service here in the States? I'll cut to the chase, alot of time and even more work. Do you also know the requirements that GWB had to his unit? Why was he never charged with being UA (the new term for AWOL) Thats Article 86 under the UCMJ (All military memebers must follow these rules/regulations and are tried twice for such offense's. Once in Civilian court, then second in Militray court martial, and will serve both sentence's) The punishment for UA after 30 days is death in war time.

Get your facts straight before posting next time.

Indeed!
Article 86—"Absence without leave" does not have a death penalty.
Article 85—"Desertion" does have a penalty of death (in time of war) although it is a maximum sentence and a court-martial may impose alternate sentences.

http://www.au.af.mil/au/awc/awcgate/ucmj.htm

[Nark]

I tried to break it down Barny style for you, but seeing how you still don't understand I'll try to explain it even more.

After being UA for 30 days your are now a diserter. Max punishment for disertion is indeed death in war time. Now if you go back and read my post again, by being UA for more than 30 days you may get the punishment of death. I thought you were at least intellegent enough to draw the line yourself. Also a little side note, once you get convicted in a court martial, you get the max sentence, not 10 or 15 years depending on what the prosecuting atterney thinks. You also serve the full sentence, there's no early parole.

Swede.

GWB bush never went to Vietnam because his unit didn't deploy.
I'll give you an example of the Marine Corps deployments in present time, as I'm more familiar with that. There is a Division and an Air Wing in two different base's in Japan, that will never see combat in Iraq, because their area to cover doesn't happen to fall in the Middle East. They cover the pacific and asian region of the world. You may note that they were the first people in to help after the Tsunami last year, since that happened in their region. I also know a number of Marines here in the US who havn't seen Iraqi sand yet, simply because they didn't deploy, or they were held back when their unit deployed.

You have some balls calling Kerry a Hero. He may be a combat veteran, but he is in no way a hero of any sort. People like, Col. Puller, Pvt. Smedly, and SFC. Smith are excellent examples of hero's. Kerry got wounds which a never took him off the line, and he's called a "decorated hero." What do you call SFC. Smith who never made it off the front line?

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1006552/posts

Also, if you look at the list of the Rep. Vs. Dems who served in the military, you may note, almost double the amount of Rep. served versus Dems.

[swede]

[quote="nark"]I
GWB bush never went to Vietnam because his unit didn't deploy.


Sure thing, that is precisely the reason why he was in the ANG, strings were pulled to see to it that GWB would never deploy in Vietnam, bingo - he ends up in the ANG and goes AWOL for almost a year. I have asked you why he was not charged for that, the answer is self explanatory.
Funny how everyone wants to slag John Kerry over his record - what heinous acts did he commit while serving his nation? Would they include getting his ass shot to save a gun boat crew?


Republican voter catches the latest address..

[Nick1stJ!]

Cough, and you wonder why the hell Clinton never got that kind of fire...
http://www-tech.mit.edu/V112/N37/clinton.37w.html

the military had plenty of time to court martial Bush or whatever for AWOL, and don't tell me that daddy would have protected him, because the military has prosecuted rich people in its rank in the past and will do it again. Unless someone show me tangible evidence that he did went AWOL(a crime which in comparaison to Kerry's,is pretty small),innocent until proven guilty still applies...even for rich people.

I will certainly not excuse Bush's decision to join the ANG instead of the US Navy or US Air Force as a combat pilot...but here's some food for taught anyway.
Clinton never got this kind of fire, yet sended US troops all over the world in peacekeeping missions(and when US corpses got dragged in the streets in Somalia, he,as a good vietnam era liberal, ignored the military's opinion and withdrew anyway). Roosevelt also was in the same position...

But if Bush isn't in the league of great warriors like Churchill, Kerry is nothing more than a high profile traitor who happens to be good at propaganda, and have a whole bunch of people who hates Bush with him and are willing to excuses his less than perfect past..

Ah and here's the complete Kerry quote where he admits(lie) about war crimes in Vietnam of his fellow soldiers.

"I would like to talk on behalf of all those veterans and say that several months ago in Detroit we had an investigation at which over 150 honorably discharged, and many very highly decorated, veterans testified to war crimes committed in Southeast Asia. These were not isolated incidents but crimes committed on a day-to-day basis with the full awareness of officers at all levels of command. It is impossible to describe to you exactly what did happen in Detroit - the emotions in the room and the feelings of the men who were reliving their experiences in Vietnam. They relived the absolute horror of what this country, in a sense, made them do.

"They told stories that at times they had personally raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, taped wires from portable telephones to human genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies, randomly shot at civilians, razed villages in fashion reminiscent of Ghengis Khan, shot cattle and dogs for fun, poisoned food stocks, and generally ravaged the countryside of South Vietnam in addition to the normal ravage of war and the normal and very particular ravaging which is done by the applied bombing power of this country.

We call this investigation the Winter Soldier Investigation.

-- John Kerry, testifying before the Senate Committee on Foreign Relations, April 22, 1971"

...and he's where he "brags"(lie) about his own war crimes...

http://ice.he.net/~freepnet/kerry/index ... =Documents
http://www.wintersoldier.com/audio/kerry2.mp3

There are better choices than Bush among the republican ranks, but the dems had absolutly nothing but douche bags to offer.

[North Shore]

Nark said:

Also, if you look at the list of the Rep. Vs. Dems who served in the military, you may note, almost double the amount of Rep. served versus Dems.

Care to provide a link to this, Nark? All I can find is this:http://www.nhgazette.com/news/chickenha ... dquarters/ That's just for starters.

While it may be true that greater #'s served (and I'll wait for your post to see), in the current case, wouldn't you personally feel a bit better going off to an optional war if you knew that the guys sending you had at least a little personal knowledge of where/what they were sending you to? And thus might not be so gung-ho about it?

[LostinRotation]

I really don't understand how people can critisize Kerry for speaking out against the crimes to humanity he witnessed first hand. How do you figure he insulted all U.S servicemen when he told the world what he saw? Would you prefer people were allowed to continue to torture and kill innocents without any checks and balances in order to save face for the U.S military ? In my opinion he would have been less a man to have kept his mouth shut and hid under a rock shoving cocaine up his nose with the rest of the champagne club.

-=0=LIR=0=-

[Nark]

North:
I went to your link, and had a good look. Whomever wrote that site, had a giant feather in his ass about the Repulicans. Apparently being a naval flight instructor doesn't count as being in the military, as described in Rumsfelds case. Also the whole Bush thing. You should be smart enough to know that it isn't easy to get your wings in the US military, nor in the Canadian.
I'm at the very begining, and it's nothing like getting my commercial in Canada. I had to bust my balls just to get to this point, and I have no intention to loose my slot.
I'm still looking for that list for you. It came about during the election, and I'm pouring through past forum threads trying to find it.

[Nick1stJ!]

I really don't understand how people can critisize Kerry for speaking out against the crimes to humanity he witnessed first hand. How do you figure he insulted all U.S servicemen when he told the world what he saw?

The point is,he never witnessed any crime against humanity. Or if he did,he never filed any complaint,failing his duty as a United States officer.

And he admitted to war crimes himself, which is good enough for a court martial.

BUt then he has no evidence of "war crimes",and the republicans or the military could never charge him with war crimes because the only evidence there is is Kerry's word. Because Kerry lied for political reasons and wrongly putted dirt on all US servicemen.

"I do not believe John Kerry is fit to be Commander-in-Chief of the armed forces of the United States. This is not a political issue. It is a matter of his judgment, truthfulness, reliability, loyalty and trust -- all absolute tenets of command. His biography, "Tour of Duty," by Douglas Brinkley, is replete with gross exaggerations, distortions of fact, contradictions and slanderous lies. His contempt for the military and authority is evident by even a most casual review of this biography. He arrived in-country with a strong anti-Vietnam War bias and a self-serving determination to build a foundation for his political future. He was aggressive, but vain and prone to impulsive judgment, often with disregard for specific tactical assignments. He was a "loose cannon." In an abbreviated tour of four months and 12 days, and with his specious medals secure, Lt.(jg) Kerry bugged out and began his infamous betrayal of all United States forces in the Vietnam War. That included our soldiers, our marines, our sailors, our coast guardsmen, our airmen, and our POWs. His leadership within the so-called Vietnam Veterans Against the War and testimony before Congress in 1971 charging us with unspeakable atrocities remain an undocumented but nevertheless meticulous stain on the men and women who honorably stayed the course. Senator Kerry is not fit for command.

-- Rear Admiral Roy Hoffman, USN (retired)"

"I served with these guys. I went on missions with them, and these men served honorably. Up and down the chain of command there was no acquiescence to atrocities. It was not condoned, it did not happen, and it was not reported to me verbally or in writing by any of these men including Lt.(jg) Kerry.

-- Captain George Elliott, USN (retired)"

Fpr each and every John kerry there is, there are at least a thousand George Elliot out there.