Am I starting too late?

[kimchi_chigae]

Hi,

Is it too late to start a career at 31 years old? Well, probably 33, 34 by the time I can get flight school done.

I feel I have just been threading water the last few years and would like to switch careers. I don't have a lot saved up, 20K, so my plan was to move back into my parents basement and work my arse off for a year. Save enough to get through flight school and be done with it by the end of 2015.

I live in Toronto and have a friend who is going to the Seneca program next year. If I were to take that course, I would be 36 by the time I graduate. Is it out of the question trying to get into that program as well? I don't have a degree, only a college diploma.

I'm looking for some advice. Also, is Toronto Airways my best choice for getting my courses done?

Thanks.

[kmf.kenif]

I would start with a PPL first and see if it's really something you wish to pursue. Seen it happen to a lot of people where their perception of being a professional pilot does not live up to their expectations. If I were you, I may look for a smaller flight school and save a dime. Just my opinion.

[North Shore]

Too old, no. Getting long in the tooth, yes.. Best case, you'll be done in 12 to 18 months after you start (depending on your ability, diligence, and willingness to accept debt) After that, assuming that all goes well, you've got another 3 to 5 years of poor wages($20-30K) before you start earning decent ($50-70K) money, and probably 10 years or more before you hit the $100k level. Are you willing to accept that? Are you willing to leave Toronto for the middle of nowhere for your first job on two weeks' notice? If you can get into Seneca, that might speed things along a little, but OTOH, you might be better just going to your local flight school, and going hard there (depending on prior job experience..)

There, that's my $.02....

Good Luck!

[bverwegen]

I think the previous posters have both hit the nail on the head so far.

What I might suggest is the program at Confederation College in Thunder Bay. It runs for two years as opposed to three in the Sault and four at Seneca (if you would prefer the college route over private flight school).

Whatever path you choose the people you meet and the connections you make during your flight training may be the biggest factor which determines the success of your career!

Good Luck

[Iliopolus_1]

Hell No.
There is a large number of kids with silver spoons protruding from their rear ends
who for lack of academic ability in other areas, decided to buy themselves some white
shirts, gold braid and become excess weight in Aeroplane.

I have met lots of pilots who started late and had not trouble getting jobs etc.
Except at mid 30's, most of them seem to have been married and were very fussy
about what job they would or could take.

In your 30's you may have other qualifications and experiences that might stand you
in good stead with a future aviation employer. I would not however look for a job as
a "rampee" hangar rat or whatever.

The college programs are well known to employers who may or may not
prefer grads from a particular school.

It's your references that count, especially aviation ones and at your age
you might have enough life experience to place you ahead of the brats.

The bonus for an employer is that you "look older", passengers would much prefer
to see gray hair up front than bum fluff.

I'm sure the Colonel will have more words for you...

[Colonel Sanders]

Nah, you guys hit the high points.

I am a fanatic about NO student debt. It cripples you.

Stand under the money tree. Keep working the day job
and get your qualifications and hours on the side. When
you make the jump, have an additional pile of cash saved
up that you mention to NO ONE.

Have no other debt, as well. No mortgage, no car loan,
nothing. You should own a paid-off and well-maintained
four cylinder car that is around 8 years old, with a good
selection of tools in the trunk that you know how to use.

Helps if you're single, too, and are kind of a gypsy and
enjoy travelling to weird places and meeting even weirder
people.

Frankly, it's the people, not the airplanes, that make aviation
different. You would never meet these oddball people, otherwise.

Some will be the worse thieves you've ever heard of. Others
will be the most principled people you could dream of. The really
neat thing is that they all look the same. It's up to you to figure
out which is which.

[Beefitarian]

Someone correct me if I am wrong but most college aviation programs will result in a diploma not a degree. The original poster's diploma plus actual experience should be more valuable.

That is not to say you don't want an aviation diploma. I am just saying you probably will not get any extra credit in a hiring situation. The exception being if you happen to apply for a job where the guy went to the same program as you. "Hey you went to Antarctica college? Me too! Gimme a hug bro." If you like the aviation program at a college and have the extra money, go for it. If you work hard at a regular flight school you can be done in under a year, college is two years no matter what.

Some will be the worse thieves you've ever heard of. Others
will be the most principled people you could dream of. The really
neat thing is that they all look the same. It's up to you to figure
out which is which.

I don't think there are worse thieving scammers in aviation. The problem is people want to fly so bad that they are willing to believe they should trust them.

When a school asks for money before you fly, too many people think that may be the only way they can get flight training.

Don't presume everyone you meet is a scammer but also don't presume what they are doing is in your best interest. They are in business to make money. Sometimes they will not be malicious, it may just be something like, it is more expensive to operate a College program than a simple flight training unit that is busy.

Just like running a school in an expensive place such as Toronto, Vancouver or Calgary will be more expensive than Saskatchewan. Guess who is paying for that? If you can live free with your parents that cost might be able to offset staying in Toronto by saving rent.

[Lotro]

All really, really great advice from a host of friendly people who know more than I do.

I just wanted to mention the "evil buy-a-job" programs like Air Georgian's cadet program. If you've worked for a few years, and have some scratch set aside, it could work. I'm sure there's risk in it though.

Of course, you could never admit to anyone here you bought a job.

And before I get flamed, I'm not saying I condone this activity, it's just "out there" when considering options.

There's also the "buy a plane" option (which is my favourite).

[smokescreen_wshh]

Solid advice from the vets, as a newbie to the whole GA thing I was surprised about the comment on scamming shady persons being prevalent in aviation. Thought I left those boiler room sketch bag types behind in my old job

Anyone care to elaborate on what other signs to look for to identify these types in GA?

[azimuthaviation]

I am a fanatic about NO student debt. It cripples you.

Yup, debt is a commodity, can be bought and sold and gives pretty high returns.

Are you starting too late? A proverb for you: "The best time to plant a tree was sometime in the past. The second best time to plant a tree is tomorrow"

[Shiny Side Up]

Anyone care to elaborate on what other signs to look for to identify these types in GA?

Canadian aviation, you'll never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy.

Seriously though. Develop a good bullshit detector, think for yourself. The same types who scam in other businesses ply the same tricks here. If something sounds too good to be true, it probably is. Don't give anyone money up front.

[kmf.kenif]

Don't give anyone money up front.

+1, often a shady FTU or a college program.
Caveat emptor.

[kimchi_chigae]

I appreciate all the replies so far, guys. Thank you very much.

I would prefer not to take on any debt and I'm willing to wait another year to get started to make sure I can save enough to get through flight school.

As for where to go to get training, I still have to do more research on it. Visit a few schools and so on. I would be willing to move out of Toronto to get the training done, and I'm willing to go anywhere for my first job. I did the marriage thing and I'm probably not going there again anytime soon. No kids either.

Again, thank you for the advice.

[dirtysidedown]

All such great information. I am/was in the same boat as you. I got the itch to get my license since i sat in the cockpit of the A380 at YYZ, my god did I ever want to fly. Luckily my current job allows me to be around the airports on the sterile side (post security) quite a lot, especially in and around the baggage handlers and apron.

Ever since i've seen these birds and stood beside, i've always wanted to fly. I always sat on the proverbial fence wondering if i should take the leap or should just sit there and wonder what could have been, but my soon to be wife said go do it either you do it now or you never get to do it. So i took the jump, went to a local FTU, obtained my PPL in 11 months while working full time . Sadly, I could have gotten it 2-3 months sooner but i had the nice pre-simulator work that has been discussed to nausea on here, but that is another story.

I'd say go for it while working to ensure it is right for you, I know i want to get my CPL followed by a change of careers… But i am currently supporting a new family and all the necessities that come along with it so my journey has slowed down… But none the less, i'd be just as content becoming an instructor and enjoying this as a hobby on weekends.

My final words are... while people say don't go into debt getting your education but sometimes debt is a necessary evil to get to the point that you want to in life. I don't think those pay up front programs are all that necessary for adult learners like ourselves (Seneca, Algonquin, etc.) as we've experience more to life than those 19 year olds and should possess the skills necessary to keep on task (since we are truly paying for what we are going to learn). Yes, $60k+ is quite drastic of an amount, but I believe $5-10k is perfectly ok.

[Rookie50]

Get mentors and counsel from those who know you well. Wisdom comes from many counsellors.

[doan_1]

I'm in the same boat as you, just already a head a bit. I'm 33 and about to finish my CPL in March (getting it at CYCD's Vital Aviation winter desert camp in Arizona). But I started at 31. Cashed in investments, worked my a$$ off to get here with a PPL plus no real debt, and now I can't wait to start the next part(900+ NM X-country dual there, solo back and no snow). No family ties to hold me back after, a gf but no kids/interuptions, own my truck, etc. I decided the FTU route was right for me because the instructors and I get along really well, it was quicker with no simulator. All my time has been real world. I don't have massive international airline aspirations. Maybe the new Vancouver based BC ferry lines, but that's it. I just want to fly.

I got my PPL earlier this year and went up a bit myself and made that final CPL decision there (actually the final choice was made somewhere over the west coast of Vancouver Island during a trip to Tofino this summer). I think it was the smartest choice cause if I had decided to stay PPL I could have put that CPL money into a nice little personal plane (cub on floats or something), stayed at my normal job, and I would not have been in a hole because of it.