WJ pilots reject tentative agreement

[teacher]

WestJet pilots reject tentative agreement
The Globe and Mail

Published Friday, Nov. 29 2013, 1:55 PM EST
Last updated Friday, Nov. 29 2013, 1:58 PM EST

Pilots of WestJet Airlines Ltd. Have rejected a new tentative agreement with the airline.

The pilots, who are members of the non-union WestJet Pilots Association, voted 59 per cent against the new contract, but will continue to fly planes under the old contract while returning to the bargaining table to negotiate a new deal.

WestJet announced today that its pilots have voted against a tentative agreement by a margin of 58.7 per cent. Turnout was very strong, with 96 per cent of pilots voting.

“We are disappointed with the results of the vote,” Gregg Saretsky, WestJet’s president, said in a statement. “Our leadership team and the WJPA will regroup in the coming weeks, focusing on understanding the specific concerns of the pilot group and, just as we’ve always done, work collaboratively to bring forward a new agreement.”

http://www.theglobeandmail.com//report- ... e15679543/

[CanadianEh]

I like the CEO's response and I hope he genuinely means it. What a concept... working together instead of the "Us" vs. "Them" crap at Air Canada.

[BE20 Driver]

If every company had the attitude that we're all in this together, just think how much better things would be - for everyone.

Just curious, what were the reasons for voting it down?

[MeAndMrPenguin]

I like the CEO's response and I hope he genuinely means it. What a concept... working together instead of the "Us" vs. "Them" crap at Air Canada.

This situation is not that different than AC. TA1 bargained through interest based bargaining. The pilots reject it.

ACPA messed around with TA2 and the company stuffed them.

I am sure the company will give a bit and this will sort. 10 percent more to go...

[AirFrame]

The pilots, who are members of the non-union WestJet Pilots Association

See what you can accomplish without a union when people work together?

[CAL]

so if you just keep rejecting it...you keep getting paid and working under the previous agreement.....which I assume makes you more money and works you less....so how many times can you keep rejecting it?

[teacher]

The pilots, who are members of the non-union WestJet Pilots Association

See what you can accomplish without a union when people work together?

You do realize that a pilot association and a union are pretty much the same thing. Except a union has more teeth. You are collectively bargaining and represented by a body that speaks for the masses. The difference is in the name, perception and power behind it, nothing else.

[Optimus Prime]

You do realize that a pilot association and a union are pretty much the same thing. Except a union has more teeth. You are collectively bargaining and represented by a body that speaks for the masses. The difference is in the name, perception and power behind it, nothing else.

Thanks for the lesson, Teach.

[BE20 Driver]

You do realize that a pilot association and a union are pretty much the same thing. Except a union has more teeth. You are collectively bargaining and represented by a body that speaks for the masses. The difference is in the name, perception and power behind it, nothing else.

And thanks to the current government, joining unions is soon to be optional. How many teeth can you really have when big brother is standing over you with tooth extraction legislation at your first complaint of a little plaque?

[FICU]

The pilots, who are members of the non-union WestJet Pilots Association

See what you can accomplish without a union when people work together?

We are in a union and got a lot accomplished with people working together and have a very good CBA. Maybe it's not the union that's the issue.

[Old fella]

Thing with a union(certified bargaining agent) are the legalities attached. You often hear as an example CUPE is in a “legal” strike position, in other words employees can’t be dismissed/sanctioned/disciplined by taking a “legal’ action. As for this WJ Association(non certified bargaining Agent) there are no legalities and no” legal” actions…………..

Cheers!!!!!!!!!!!

[Boeinguy]

The fact that WJ pilots rejected the TA is not a big deal, so don't bother making a big deal of it. WJ pilots are not unionizing, however a small group of pilots were interested in that. A suitable agreement will be ratified at some point but that is now several months down the road. WJ pilots will see many CEOs come and go over their tenure and with that being said most WJ pilots believe Gregg Saretsky is doing a great job. Gregg is a great marketer and has the potential to take WJ to the top, however if you look at GS and the alaska airline pilots you will see a wide variance of comments about GS. We all have something to learn and GS has been learning to lead passionate employees. He has never lead a more pasionate group of professionals. WJ pilots will continue to work with, not against management but will not ratify an agreement that that is not suitable for the times. There is a lot going on at WJ these days and as all these changes mold together it will be easier to come to an amicable agreement down the road. When that happens is not important as he has the support of the WJ pilot group. The rejection of the this agreement is not a slap in GS face, but an opportunity. Thats how we roll at WJ.

[Donald]

Does this agreement apply to WJ mainline pilots only, or Encore as well?

[Old fella]

The power to withdraw your services or "strike" if you want to call it that is a very powerful tool, one of last resort but it is a "legal" tool with a certified bargaining agent like CALPA or ACPA. You can turn down every agreement per week for the next 6 months but you have no "legal" remedies for any action to back up your outstanding issues.

[Krimson]

Surely management knows that and will work with the pilot group to reach a new agreement. If they force something upon the pilots which is unwanted, they know what the repercussions will be. Sometimes the threat of a union sometimes works better than the union itself.

[The Raven]

The fact that WJ pilots rejected the TA is not a big deal, so don't bother making a big deal of it. WJ pilots are not unionizing, however a small group of pilots were interested in that. A suitable agreement will be ratified at some point but that is now several months down the road. WJ pilots will see many CEOs come and go over their tenure and with that being said most WJ pilots believe Gregg Saretsky is doing a great job. Gregg is a great marketer and has the potential to take WJ to the top, however if you look at GS and the alaska airline pilots you will see a wide variance of comments about GS. We all have something to learn and GS has been learning to lead passionate employees. He has never lead a more pasionate group of professionals. WJ pilots will continue to work with, not against management but will not ratify an agreement that that is not suitable for the times. There is a lot going on at WJ these days and as all these changes mold together it will be easier to come to an amicable agreement down the road. When that happens is not important as he has the support of the WJ pilot group. The rejection of the this agreement is not a slap in GS face, but an opportunity. Thats how we roll at WJ.

[Old fella]

Surely management knows that and will work with the pilot group to reach a new agreement. If they force something upon the pilots which is unwanted, they know what the repercussions will be. Sometimes the threat of a union sometimes works better than the union itself.

Well in the long run , hope it all works out for your group. However, what is noted(on this site anyway) the discontent amongst your pilot group as 58% turned down your MGT offer and if I read correctly well over 90% showed up. Not a ringing endorsement by any stretch of the imagination but slightly over half are not happy and that would suggest some cracks in the WJ pilot family culture.

Best of luck to you

Cheers

[Tiny Voices]

Turn the clock back five and a half years to when we last negotiated an agreement and you'll see a near mirror image of where we stand today. Or you would if that vote had not been suspended after 27% of the pilot group had cast their ballot. Things got fixed then, and we ended up with a mutually beneficial agreement. No need to push the panic button at this stage.

[bearinmind]

Buddy of mine says things are getting ugly there, WestJet union supporters are being locked out of WJPA websites, No one is allowed to discuss the old TA. Bet that didn't happen 5 years ago.. Good luck guys and gals, we all support ya!

[Old fella]

Betcha said union supporters will be labeled as agitators, shunned, subject to isolation/ridicule and considered persona non grata until they had enough and bail out. Failing that, have a slight slip-up and are dismissed for cause.

[jjj]

The executive for the WPPA is locked out of the site. They may not use the tools of the WJPA for their own campaign and agenda.

As far as intimidation goes - look no further than the WPPA. They are the ones who swarm the people who don't support them on the forum.

Supporters of the WPPA are free to post and still do.

Nobody is inhibited from discussing the old TA or anything. Feel free to start another thread. Feel free to bitch about the new blocking window and OT triggers for a TA that was voted down.

The old threads have been archived like everything else. The 2009 agreement, the MOA for bases, the Encore stuff.

Next.

[Lateralus]

Betcha said union supporters will be labeled as agitators, shunned, subject to isolation/ridicule and considered persona non grata until they had enough and bail out. Failing that, have a slight slip-up and are dismissed for cause.

Betcha you'd be wrong. But cause you're an "old fella" you think you've seen it all and know it all, plus your hate on for Westjet. We get it old man, give it a rest

[Old fella]

Well lateralus,methinks you would be less than honest if you don't believe there is an element(however small) of truth in my commentary. That is human nature and one doesn't have to be in the aviation industry to understand what does happen in a failed " organization union drive", markers are laid.

As for WJ itself - as a fare paying pax - I think they are a little" over rated", the crowd who sing the WJ song usually have a hate-on for Air Canada. Personally in my old man experience, AC domestic is giving WJ a real good run and are just as good as you WJ chaps in all respects.

There, I said it!!

[Johnny#5]

[furthadawgs]

Look no further than the flight line to see where folks' heads are at. The WJPA forum and this forum are very useful tools for getting issues out in the open and are likely the predominant reason that the original TA was "tweaked" prior to the vote. That being said, a fraction of front liners at WJ actually post regularly on these forums. From what I see, the sentiment on the line is drastically different than it is on the forums. I can honestly say that the majority of guys and gals I have flown with have had a pretty balanced overall view. Most were not in favour of the TA and most are not proponents of the WPPA. The fact that only 57% of pilots voted against this TA to me is not a fair reflection of the sentiment towards the TA or towards changing our representation to a certified bargaining unit. I believe that it is possible many members voted YES despite their view of the TA to simply avoid the threat of a union.