No work anywhere

[bhmve]

Is there anyone else out there in the same boat as I am? I got my AME license back in June and was laid off the next month from my past employer. I never went back because they were jerks. Now I have spent the last 5 and a half months searching for work. I have contacted every helicopter operator in canada. I am now looking for fixed wing work even though all my experience is on Bell Medium Helicopters. I can not land a job and I just dont understand why at this point.

So, here is where I am. I am newly licensed with no endorsements. Is this really a bad thing? Every time i talk to a DOM he always goes back to the endorsement. Since I do not have one, he ultimately decides that they really do not have a position at the moment.

So I am asking this, being in my position, licensed with no type course under my belt, is it possible to get a job these days?

I have even applied to the canadian forces but they take over a year to hire you. I am getting really frustrated!!!

[Fixinplanes08]

I am in pretty much the same boat, I have had my license (M2) a few months linger then you (no endorsements) I quit my previous employer for numerous reasons. I have been offered 2 jobs since then.. One required relocating my family .. Both jobs offered $23-$24/h, benefits after 6 months and 2+ year training bonds for any endorsement courses. I have 1 child and a baby at home, rent, car payments, insurance, grocery bills and everything else that comes with it, all on a one income salary. I can't afford to work for that.. Not in this day and age, sure.. I may be able to pay the bills, but there may not be anything left to put gas in the car to get to work! This industry is sad, VERY sad.. Any other trade that requires a minimum of 2 years of schooling plus atleast another 2 of apprenticeship, once the license is achieved the pay is well into the 30's if not 40's... It doesn't seem like much.. But that extra 3-4$/h makes a bit difference at the end of the month when we are talking about saving for a house etc etc..

I'm not the first, nor do I doubt I'll be the last.. But if aviation maintenance doesn't give me even a little something to work with between now and the next 6 months - I'll be turning my head 180 degrees... and won't be looking back!!!

FP08

[robertw]

What license do you have? If you have only an M2, yes, endorsements are pretty important. Any of the others, I don't see why you can't find work unless you have a whole load of conditions for your next job. If you're serious about finding work, you need to be willing to relocate or try something different. You might even have to take a wage that is less than what you'd like. (Don't tell anyone on this site that I said that. I might get in trouble. )

With a good attitude and a willingness to go outside of your comfort zone, you should be able to find something that pays the bills.

[helicopterray]

. I never went back because they were jerks.

You may want to think about that. As a newbie, you don't burn bridges, and you don't get to choose.
That can follow you around.

[freeAdventure]

It's going to be a long time until there is no work to do so maybe you are just having trouble selling yourself. Any company should hire you if you can convince them you will save/make them money. I'm a student and maybe not the best to give you advice but I have been seeking advice and mentor-ship as best I can so I'll pass it along to everyone maybe in a similar situation. Also this reply isn't directly relevant to your post but I got some great motivation from this site and wanted to pass it along.

The world is a big competition, if you want to succeed you have to be the best you can. Get into the mindset that you have a limited amount of time, each day consists of 86,400 seconds and you have to make the best use of every single one. A few obvious and helpful tips:
Get up at 6 am everyday and workout, people will respect you more if you are fit and seem awake in the morning. Take good care of yourself no excuse is good enough not to. Eat right and find value in sleep. If you work the night shift, adjust accordingly.
Study something everyday, develop a love of learning for yourself and become wise. This is something that can give you a great advantage in life and as you continue to learn the advantage will only become greater. Don't forget to study humility, seriously.
Work, and only produce quality. Every job has merit and reflects on who you are, focus on the details and take every chance to imitate others. Watch how someone better than you works and work the same, copy them until you can produce like they can, THEN figure out how to do it better.
Act professionally, anyone who speaks with you should feel comfortable enough to fly on your work. Confidence and appearance go a long way, make an effort. If you produce paperwork make sure you are proud of it and keep in mind that someone has to interpret it. If you wouldn't feel comfortable personally handing it to every AME you know for review, its not good enough. This goes for the resume's and cover-letters too.
This is getting kinda long so some quick one's:
Falling asleep is a skill, study it
Push yourself, do you really know your limits?
On occasion push yourself to the edge, find your limit. Plan to exceed it next time.
Learn the difference between a debate and an argument, study how to notice when one becomes the other.

you probably already do some of these things but maybe have been making excuses when it comes to others. I don't want to judge you based on a short post but really what it comes down to is being better. Don't allow yourself to be content, find ways you can be better and seriously work. Everyone can improve themselves everyday and as you improve you will find yourself more confident, stronger, faster, smarter. Opportunities will open up for you but by then you will have made your own opportunities.

[longjon]

Premier in Windsor won't hire you?

[Taiser]

If your willing to go to shit holes there are probably lots of employment opportunities, after a while I got sick of those places, which is why I got out of the business...

If I was more patient, I could have ridden it out for a few more years, got the experience I needed and moved back to "civilization", I just didn't want to put the time in anymore.

[bhmve]

I know I have to go to remote areas to get work. I have tried believe me. I have an M2 license with all rotary experience. Everyone in the helicopter side wants a guy with a type course. They dont have to take a risk with training. Its just such a shitty time to try and find work because the past year has been a horrible one.

As for fixed wing work. Nope. No bites. I had an offer from Bombardier but I didnt get back to them in time and they filled the spot. As for Premiere in Windsor. Well I had a phone interview and then they said the DOM would call me to have another interview about the position but he never called back. I called them and left a message about calling me but no call backs yet. I just cant believe that even fixed wing or the military isn't hiring me. I know it takes time but its been 6 months already. You would think I would have more offers by now.

Anyway, Ive decided I have to bite the bullet and go on a type course on my own and just contract my services.

Its just crappy to think I spent 30,000 dollars on school then 3 years apprenticing to end up like this. Just doesnt make sense.

[bhmve]

. I never went back because they were jerks.

You may want to think about that. As a newbie, you don't burn bridges, and you don't get to choose.
That can follow you around.

Oh I haven't burned any bridges. If you knew my story you wouldn't think Im being choosy. I got dicked around, plain and simple. They are criminals who shouldn't have and operators cert or an AMO. This place is known for f'n around apprentices and its a revolving door there. I just wished I left within the first year and found employment elsewhere but I was new to the industry and didnt see how harmful it was being there. Now im paying the price.

[The Weasel]

Rotary wing, newly licenced M2 with no endorsements is a tough spot to be in. It's also not the best time of year to be looking. You should get more bites starting in the new year, moving into the spring. Check here from time to time for job postings: http://forums.verticalmag.com/

[flatface]

Deleted

[plhought]

Have you thought about grabbing an endorsement on your own dime? Its a bit of a financial risk, but better than being unemployed I guess. Where I did airplane school (Northern Lights College, Dawson Creek) they offered some relatively reasonable type courses. 'Discounted' residence-style accommodation was also available.

http://www.nlc.bc.ca/Programs/AllProgra ... ining.aspx

BELL 204/205 AIRFRAME FIELD MAINTENANCE (ROTO119)
COST: Canadian Citizenship $3,200 • Non-Canadian Citizenship $3,900
DATES: October 28 - November 8, 2013 and January 13-24, 2014

T53 ENGINE FIELD MAINTENANCE (ROTO124)
COST: Canadian Citizenship $1,600 • Non-Canadian Citizenship $1,950
DATES: October 21 - 25, 2013 and January 6-10, 2014


I'm not sure where you are based but have you really tried some operators out West?. Plenty of Bell Medium people out here like Delta, Quest, Eagle Helicopters, some stuff in Springbank. There's gotta be somewhere out there looking for a licensed guy, even if he isn't endorsed. I can understand the apprehensions to making that big leap from home though. Gotta do what ya gotta do I guess.

Best of luck though!

[212wrench]

Getting a rotary endorsement on your own is a waste of time and money. Why would I hire you with an endorsement but no time on the machine? The problem with helicopters is winter is slow. Look to be employed in the spring as things wind up. Also, this has been a lean year for rotary with very little fire work and the resource sector slowing down. companies with contracts over the summer did fine, fire chasers are starving.

[The Weasel]

Getting a rotary endorsement on your own is a waste of time and money. Why would I hire you with an endorsement but no time on the machine?

He said most of his time was on Bell mediums, so I would think getting a course would probably make a big difference for him. Still, seems to me (although I'm not a medium guy) that mediums can sometimes be a bit of a tough gig to get into for a fresh licence even with an endorsement.

What about taking a 206 or 350 course (even with little or no type experience) to at least get a foot in the door somewhere?

[The Weasel]

bhmve,

Have you tried looking at MRO shops that do work on medium airframes?

[bhmve]

I am going to do an as350 course and try and land a job with someone who operates astars and bell mediums. I figured I'll get hired with my heavy overhaul and field experience. And time on the astar will pile up quickly.

[bhmve]

bhmve,

Have you tried looking at MRO shops that do work on medium airframes?

I have but no takers. They still want someone with signing authority I guess

[Pat Richard]

Typical aviation...expect people to train themselves so the company can save/make money.

I'd suggest investing in another field where they value their people.

[KISS_MY_TCAS]

The problem isn't the lack of jobs, the problem is lack of QUALIFIED people to fill them. Sure you can pay for a type course, but it gives you no real world experience and makes you no more valuable, it just saves an employer money. Prospective employers will see this, as will your coworkers. As a higher time AME, companies are bombarding me with offers as they are unable to recruit experience. High time guys don't move unless they are really unhappy, and there isn't a ton of them around because people turn thier backs on the industry and move on in under 10 years. My employer gets bucket loads of resumes from 1-3 year licences but its isn't what we need, or are looking for, but it is all that is out there. We keep holding out for a resume that never comes, as I am sure a lot of operators in Canada do. If you really want to stick with aviation, travel, knock on doors and show initiative. Understand that employers are not looking for your level, but prove to them you want to be at a higher level and can offer them value through hiring. That is what the industry has succumbed to, employers still hang on to the decades old belief people are willing to sacrifice themselves for the good of their employer and the industry, the old boys club still signs the cheques. There is change afoot in that younger management is beginning to take over, but it is a painfully slow process like any advancement in aviation. My employer is 3 guys short, and I am being recruited by organizations that are 10 guys short, but you aren't the answer. The industry hasn't yet figured out it is it's own worst enemy by chasing talent away to other, higher paying better lifestyle industries while shorting itself and remaining stagnant over not having experienced higher time applicants. They are all gone. Good luck, I wish you the best.

[conehead]

bhmve: Have you tried ORNGE? Vector? Ontario Hydro? OPP? I.M.P.? Canadian Helicopters? They are all fling-wing operators, all recently in hiring mode...

[bhmve]

The problem isn't the lack of jobs, the problem is lack of QUALIFIED people to fill them. Sure you can pay for a type course, but it gives you no real world experience and makes you no more valuable, it just saves an employer money. Prospective employers will see this, as will your coworkers. As a higher time AME, companies are bombarding me with offers as they are unable to recruit experience. High time guys don't move unless they are really unhappy, and there isn't a ton of them around because people turn thier backs on the industry and move on in under 10 years. My employer gets bucket loads of resumes from 1-3 year licences but its isn't what we need, or are looking for, but it is all that is out there. We keep holding out for a resume that never comes, as I am sure a lot of operators in Canada do. If you really want to stick with aviation, travel, knock on doors and show initiative. Understand that employers are not looking for your level, but prove to them you want to be at a higher level and can offer them value through hiring. That is what the industry has succumbed to, employers still hang on to the decades old belief people are willing to sacrifice themselves for the good of their employer and the industry, the old boys club still signs the cheques. There is change afoot in that younger management is beginning to take over, but it is a painfully slow process like any advancement in aviation. My employer is 3 guys short, and I am being recruited by organizations that are 10 guys short, but you aren't the answer. The industry hasn't yet figured out it is it's own worst enemy by chasing talent away to other, higher paying better lifestyle industries while shorting itself and remaining stagnant over not having experienced higher time applicants. They are all gone. Good luck, I wish you the best.

Everything you said is what is wrong with this industry. If employers need guys with experience why don't they hire young licensed guys and train them? You make it sound like they are soooo DESPERATE. If this is really true why don't they hire a guy like me to train? I have spoken to lots of DOM and tell them how I want to learn and grow my career but they really don't care. Everyone isn't in the position of hiring at the moment because it isn't close to summer and they don't want to train anyone. I just don't understand it. I hear the same thing from lots of people about how companies need experience AMEs on type. Yet, they don't want to put in the time and money to train a guy. I'm a family guy who is 30 years old and 3 years experience. Not a whole lot but it says I am not moving around. I need something stable to support my family and my future. I have literally talked to every operator in Canada and they all say the same thing, not in the position to hire anyone at the moment. Maybe I am not selling myself hard enough. I don't know. But I do know how frustrated its making me. Just drives me crazy to think that someone wouldn't want a person in my position. What about standard practices. I mean, at least if I do not have time on type I know better than to install something backwards or know what safety standards are. I have tools, commitment, attitude. I don't mean to rant on but I am so f'n mad that I am about to drop 10 grand that I don't have on a type course just so I can get work. Because, believe me, I have been told by many DOM's out there that if I had an astar endorsement I would be considered. And lately, when I have talked to companies and they know i am going on a type course their ears light up and all of a sudden want to talk to me. This whole thing is f'd up. If you are saying that companies need guys with lots of time on type then why the hell aren't they hiring guys to train up? That is what they are supposed to do anyway isnt it? So stupid.

[conehead]

The frustration you are feeling comes through loud and clear. Now, take a deep breath, and calm down. What is your geographical location, and are you willing to move?

[bhmve]

I'm currently in Halifax staying with family until I find work. And yes I am willing to relocate

[Beefitarian]

Typical aviation...expect people to train themselves so the company can save/make money.

I'd suggest investing in another field where they value their people.

Well, I don't know if there's enough jobs for everyone to fix wind turbines yet.

[KISS_MY_TCAS]

bhmve, I do not condone what is happening, my post was merely an observation of what I have seen in the industry. I am not involved in hiring with my employer, but i do see resumes and hear about interviews. The problem with the scarcity of experienced AMEs is that while employers can hire and train you, there is likely nobody there with experience to mentor and guide you which is why you are being passed over. Being thrown to the wolves is not a desirable situation, as a junior license you will encounter problems that having an experienced ear to pose questions and scenarios to can be invaluable. Some people learn and excel in that environment but I can assure you from my observation over the years, they are an alarmingly small minority. Much like the college AME program, a type course gives you basic knowledge and familiarization, and can allow an operator to grant an ACA, but 90% of your education about the type will come from working on it. $10k is a lot of scratch, it may land you a job, but do you really want that when the s*** hits the fan?