Rumors wrote:
Do you really believe Sky Regional is an abomination?
Do you really think Sky is going anywhere anytime soon?
If anything wouldn't it make more sense to try and get them on board with the ACPA/ALPA agenda as opposed to excluding them?
SKY is not a genuine company but rather a tool to create a lower metric comparator for the segment of the industry. Therefore the employees are just willing participants in that exercise. Many went there from ACPA/ALPA jobs so they have already demonstrated their lack of commitment to pilot solidarity and preferred interest in personal gain (at the expense of others).
As to whether SKY will be here for the long haul, that remains to be seen. Hopefully not.
Not so true. No pilot has left ACPA to fly for SR. Some retired ACPA pilots have gone there, but that wont happen again since they can now stay at mainline.
As for your distaste for SR, I can understand. SK, just like Jazz, are operating aircraft that were once flown at mainline, and only doing so because you both said you would do it for less. How about ccaa, when Jazz purposed to do the 320 flying for Dash8 wages. Thomas Cook flying, same thing. I know it may be hard to look in the mirror, but there is no difference between Jazz and SR. Jazz has always been a regional airline, continuously tiring to under cut ACPA, now the same is happening to you and you decide to cry foul. Hypocrite....
How about ccaa, when Jazz purposed to do the 320 flying for Dash8 wages. Thomas Cook flying, same thing. I know it may be hard to look in the mirror, but there is no difference between Jazz and SR. Jazz has always been a regional airline, continuously tiring to under cut ACPA, now the same is happening to you and you decide to cry foul. Hypocrite....
That is not accurate. ALPA never proposed to operate any Airbus product for AC.
And if you look at the separate hourly rates that Jazz use for regional and NB aircraft you will see that there is no undercutting going on. The same cannot be said for SKY.
As if you weren't foaming at the mouth at the thought of operating the Embraers before S.R. was born. Not a day would go by that I didnt hear Jazz pilots say "we should do all the Air Canada domestic flying and let ACPA stick to the long haul routes."
As if you weren't foaming at the mouth at the thought of operating the Embraers before S.R. was born. Not a day would go by that I didnt hear Jazz pilots say "we should do all the Air Canada domestic flying and let ACPA stick to the long haul routes."
So what option do you prefer knowing that AC wants to remove Embraers and shorthaul Airbus from the mainline fleet? Think of it worse of two evils....
A) give them to your closest partner who will operate them for around $125/hr with work rules and contract far superior to many airlines in Canada or US. Where pilots are treated humanly and actually earn a descent living.
Or
B) give them to a company or companies who will do it for half that wage with out even remotely comparable pilot contracts.
If you want my honest opinion...i dont want to see anything leaving AC fleet to anyone below, because as long as AC pilots keep the benchmark pay level in our industry, other guys have something to shoot for in their respective airlines. BUT if you know that AC management WILL remove the fleet, slowly but surely, then I would want the planes to be operated by someone with a reasonable contract and pay then companies like Sky, Georgian or Pinnacle or whatever.....it's not that difficult to understand the logic if we all keep the emotions on the side and stop with personal attacks.
Unfortunately (or maybe fortunately) those decisions don't fall on me...or any other pilot for that matter.
I just can't sit here any more and listen to personal attacks on pilots at S.R. Or Encore or whatever. Jazz pilots bitch about being given stink eye at the airport by AC pilots and now look who's giving the stink eye. I even heard of a SR pilot being physically accosted in the parking lot! Oh hell no! And if the moderators here continue to allow attacks, insults, slurs etc on any pilot group then I think they've failed at their jobs here. I have no problem with intelligent debate and comments but childish name calling while hiding behind a login is pathetic.
Not so true. No pilot has left ACPA to fly for SR. Some retired ACPA pilots have gone there, but that wont happen again since they can now stay at mainline.
As for your distaste for SR, I can understand. SK, just like Jazz, are operating aircraft that were once flown at mainline, and only doing so because you both said you would do it for less. How about ccaa, when Jazz purposed to do the 320 flying for Dash8 wages. Thomas Cook flying, same thing. I know it may be hard to look in the mirror, but there is no difference between Jazz and SR. Jazz has always been a regional airline, continuously tiring to under cut ACPA, now the same is happening to you and you decide to cry foul. Hypocrite....
Just curious on how AC Rouge is any different then Jazz or SkyReg? Are they not flying the same aircraft for less $$, and less then mainline working conditions?
And about flying larger planes for Dash 8 wages...I know Jazz Dash 8 pilots that are making more then the nouveau Rouge pilots...just saying!
ROCK wrote: SK, just like Jazz, are operating aircraft that were once flown at mainline
You referring to the 50 seat CRJ (the "little" Regional Jet) that Air Nova first signed letters of intent on before Air Canada ended up with them? Hell maybe AC should have been operating the 50 seat DH8's too.
ROCK wrote:I know it may be hard to look in the mirror, but there is no difference between Jazz and SR
There is a huge difference between Jazz and SR. And Calin and Russ know it and will use this "tool" to turn our (yours and mine) livelihoods onto the gong-show that can be witnessed south of the border. The Colgan-type accident has been already been accounted for (just like it was for Continental), and the "Harper" government will let it happen. You are naive if you believe there is no difference.
Maxpwr wrote:I just can't sit here any more and listen to personal attacks on pilots at S.R.
I haven't seen any. If you see personal attacks I'm pretty sure you can inform the mods and they do their thing.
ROCK wrote: SK, just like Jazz, are operating aircraft that were once flown at mainline
You referring to the 50 seat CRJ (the "little" Regional Jet) that Air Nova first signed letters of intent on before Air Canada ended up with them? Hell maybe AC should have been operating the 50 seat DH8's too.
Maxpwr wrote:I just can't sit here any more and listen to personal attacks on pilots at S.R.
I haven't seen any. If you see personal attacks I'm pretty sure you can inform the mods and they do their thing.
You forgot to mention Air BC's plan to expand into 737s and the 146s that were already being operated at the "regional level". Either way "ROCK"' if anybody "stole the RJs" it was AC. And it WAS AC that did it, not ACPA since AC NOT ACPA made the decision.
As for Thomas Cook it was never ACs business, aircraft or flights to have. Unless of course AC owned Thomas Cook and we didn't know about it.
The BIG difference between SKY and JAZZ is that Jazz was existing companies with existing employees having their companies bought, merged and sold. SKY is new, with new employees with the sole purpose of undercutting BOTH ACPA and ALPA represented pilots.
Can any one here comment on how many aircraft are leaving the Jazz fleet? For that matter, are they being transferred? What's the timeline? Has anything been communicated to the pilot group?
Biatch, what makes you so confident in your assertion? From an outsiders perspective whats happening and where things are headed for the Jazz pilot group seems pretty obvious, and it doesn't look good.
I like your optimism biatch or maybe you mean because of the mass exodus of the FOs will not require layoffs.
How many FOs will work for food stamps to save their own skin, my guess, enough!
TheStig wrote:Can any one here comment on how many aircraft are leaving the Jazz fleet? For that matter, are they being transferred? What's the timeline? Has anything been communicated to the pilot group?
None.
To date, no minimum fleet or block hour guarantees have been modified within the AC CPA as a result of the 'regional diversification' initiative by AC. GGN/Regional 1 has announced that it will be responsible for securing aircraft to meet its increased flying obligations with AC. Obviously, daily utilization rates on the CRJ fleet are going to decrease. However, every reduction in block hours makes Jazz less and less efficient and CASM goes up and up. In addition, AC must make CHR whole for 100% of the gross margin payments equivalent to operating 367,000 block hours annually (which is above the minimum annual block hour guarantee by 36,000 hours). This is a conscious cost/benefit decision that AC has made.
Perhaps this is an intended result to be used against CHR in the next round of the benchmarking exercise which commences shortly and once again could result in a reduction in the markup rate that AC pays to CHR. AC wants a cheaper deal and is likely willing to go to great lengths to get it.
This is a bad thing for all of our profession, and I don't want this to come across as offensive, but everything you've just said is simply a turtle sticking its head in its shell in hopes of protecting itself from a predator. The other analogy that comes to mind at this time, is the one about the frog in a boiling pot of water.It's important to understand what AC is in the process of doing here and what they are capable of achieving. As an ACPA member I've witnessed it firsthand, we've been both that turtle and frog.
Under CR's direction, AC has shown is has little regard for contracts deemed to be a burden on the airline. I hope that you don't view the block hour guarantee as any real, long term protection and this should be seen as much more of a threat to your career, than simply a negotiating tactic to decrease the CHR benchmark. I'll assume you read the "Report on Business" article about Canada's CEO of the year, the quote about "sharing our pain" comes to mind. AC has shown it's willing to work with its partners (to get what it wants) or put them out of business with complete indifference. Remember AVEOS?
TheStig wrote:This is a bad thing for all of our profession, and I don't want this to come across as offensive, but everything you've just said is simply a turtle sticking its head in its shell in hopes of protecting itself from a predator. The other analogy that comes to mind at this time, is the one about the frog in a boiling pot of water.It's important to understand what AC is in the process of doing here and what they are capable of achieving. As an ACPA member I've witnessed it firsthand, we've been both that turtle and frog.
Under CR's direction, AC has shown is has little regard for contracts deemed to be a burden on the airline. I hope that you don't view the block hour guarantee as any real, long term protection and this sound be seen as much more than a negotiating tactic to decrease the CHR benchmark. I'll assume you read the "Report on Business" article about Canada's CEO of the year, the quote about "sharing our pain" comes to mind, and this industry is controlled by executives that would have a more difficult time choosing a latte than deciding to put 10,000 employees out of work.
Remember AVEOS.
All true but the last time that I checked there were no examples in Canada where it was the pilot group running the company. These decisions emanate from the Executive suite or the BOD. If there are going to be changes in the terms of the commercial relationship between AC and CHR, then they will likely originate or at least require the concurrence and support of the corporation(s). Still, that should not prevent any otherwise enlightened pilot groups from perhaps working together to investigate and if possible propose superior operational and financial outcomes to those that appear to be in the offing. Management may have a toolbox but it does not always have the ability to create the optimum result (witness Rouge).
Pilot synergy has never happened yet in Canada but there is always hope.
