You know things are bad when

[Big Pistons Forever]

From the latest job postings:

Quote: Successful applicants will be required to sign a training bond unless they already have an existing type rating for the Cessna Citation (C560).
You must be legally entitled to work in Canada and be able to travel to other countries as a flight crew member.
We provide competitive compensation and benefits packages.
Approach Plates provided by Carson Air for every aircraft :unquote

Companies looking for Jet Captains think that actually supplying the documents required for the operation of the aircraft is noteworthy of a specific mention in the job advert......

[newcanjeter]

Awesome! Kind of like advertising for Kamakazi pilots and saying "shot of saki provided." You mean this all you got? Run don't walk away.

[Big Pistons Forever]

I think they should go the whole hog and say "we don't make you pay for the lav blue juice !!!!!"

[PositiveRate27]

They make the metro pilots pay for their own plates, and uniforms including the company jacket. They probalbly threw that tid bit about the plates in there because the info about how the metro pilots are treated has spread around and they are worried about losing potential jet candidates because of it.

[arctic_slim]

Hah! I just read that job ad and thought, that's strange to mention the plates. Then I get on the forum and it's the first thread I see. I guess everyone knows the reputation of Carson, including Carson so they're throwing in anything as a "perk".
I've never heard of any company expecting the pilots to pay for their plates, that's ridiculous.
Next thing we will see is the pilots are responsible for paying for a de-ice.

I wonder how much this job is going to pay.

[PositiveRate27]

Hah! I just read that job ad and thought, that's strange to mention the plates. Then I get on the forum and it's the first thread I see. I guess everyone knows the reputation of Carson, including Carson so they're throwing in anything as a "perk".
I've never heard of any company expecting the pilots to pay for their plates, that's ridiculous.
Next thing we will see is the pilots are responsible for paying for a de-ice.

I wonder how much this job is going to pay.

Actually the pay on the jet is pretty good from what I remeber, not that I'm defending Carson, because I'm not!

[Rowdy]

I'm betting they just pass the 'cost' of the plates on to BCAS anyways

[jpilot77]

Crazy that they think that this is a perk, but they'll always have people ready to jump in those seats.

[Beefitarian]

Sure, but they don't mention providing an aircraft.

[iflyforpie]

If anybody told me to provide documentation for the aircraft I was required to fly for hire.. I'd politely tell them to get stuffed.

They make the metro pilots pay for their own plates, and uniforms including the company jacket.

Are you sure about the uniforms?

According to the BC Employment Standards Act.

Uniforms and Special Clothing

If an employer requires an employee to wear a uniform or special clothing, the employer must provide, clean and maintain it at no cost to the employee.

Special clothing is clothing that is easily identified with the employer; for example, clothing with a company logo or unique company colours.

Special clothing includes a requirement to wear the garments that the business is currently selling. A dress code (no jeans, no cut-offs, dark clothing, business casual) is not a uniform.

Employers and employees can agree that the employer will reimburse employees for cleaning and maintaining the special clothing.

Personal safety equipment required by the Workers’ Compensation Board is not considered special clothing unless the equipment also associates the wearer with the image or identity of the employer.

[Big Pistons Forever]

If anybody told me to provide documentation for the aircraft I was required to fly for hire.. I'd politely tell them to get stuffed.

They make the metro pilots pay for their own plates, and uniforms including the company jacket.

Are you sure about the uniforms?

According to the BC Employment Standards Act.

Uniforms and Special Clothing

If an employer requires an employee to wear a uniform or special clothing, the employer must provide, clean and maintain it at no cost to the employee.

Special clothing is clothing that is easily identified with the employer; for example, clothing with a company logo or unique company colours.

Special clothing includes a requirement to wear the garments that the business is currently selling. A dress code (no jeans, no cut-offs, dark clothing, business casual) is not a uniform.

Employers and employees can agree that the employer will reimburse employees for cleaning and maintaining the special clothing.

Personal safety equipment required by the Workers’ Compensation Board is not considered special clothing unless the equipment also associates the wearer with the image or identity of the employer.

Aviation is Federally regulated. There is no Federal statute that requires companies to pay for uniforms.

[Phlyer]

That's funny - I was thinking the exact same thing.
BTW I have it from a reliable source that it pays $70 a year.

[oldtimer]

I worked for a company that provided approach plates via a subscription to Jeppeson and it was absolutley a friggen mess. Charts out of date, amendments missing, pages destroyed, the whole 9 yards.
For pilots flying only in Western Canada, the company went to pilots providing their own charts so I bought a subscription to the CAPS, as did most others. Cost was $180.00 per year but I also got a $100.00 per month raise. Company supplied the CFS.
Now, I knew the charts I was using were up to date and in good condition because they stayed in my map case. Problem solved. But if we were going out of the country, we were back to the old Jepp mess. So, when we went only to the Northwestern USA, I bought NOS charts which were very much like the CAPs. Again, they were mine and I knew they were up to date.

I know that if you get a job driving a truck, most have to supply their own chain drive wallets and double clutching boots or be considered a sissy. Twangey music CDs are also the drivers responsibility.

[iflyforpie]

Aviation is Federally regulated. There is no Federal statute that requires companies to pay for uniforms.

Oh I see... so that's how they can pay less than the Provincial minimum wage.

[PositiveRate27]

Iflyforpie,

Yes sir, most refuse to buy it and wear whatever the like to work...

[iflyforpie]

I wear Hawaiian shirts between May 15 and October 15 and hoodies the rest of the year. I did get a logoed hoodie bought for me last year.

[co-joe]

...
I've never heard of any company expecting the pilots to pay for their plates, that's ridiculous.
....

Really? Ever heard of Kenn Borek Air? Or has that changed?

[MrWings]

I had to buy my own plates. Also my own headset, shoes and underwear!

[Krimson]

I don't see how it is justified to pay for your own plates. Do you have to pay to upgrade the FMS/GPS database as well? Pay for AFM supplements? If it's required for operation it should be the operator's responsibility.

[arctic_slim]

...
I've never heard of any company expecting the pilots to pay for their plates, that's ridiculous.
....

Really? Ever heard of Kenn Borek Air? Or has that changed?

Yeah I know Kenn Borek but didn't know thye have to supply their own charts. I never asked any of the pilots I know there though. I'll ask next time. I haven't been aviation too long I guess but this is the first time I hear of having to buy your own charts. Although as another poster said, he got a $100 a month raise so that everyone could start buying their own charts, I guess that kind of makes up for it. Sounds like they did it for "management of charts" reason rather then just being cheap.

[snoopy]

Captains at Kenn Borek had to buy their own charts - VFR and IFR - at their own expense. For some reason I thought the FO's didn't have to, or maybe they shared.

I disagree wholeheartedly with pilots having to supply charts required to operate the aircraft, however for reasons stated earlier there is definitely something to be said for pilot assigned charts vs. aircraft assigned charts. There is nothing more annoying than to discover ripped charts or missing plates because the pilot before you either didn't give a rat's ass or was simply careless. Kind of like ropes on a shared floatplane, especially for cheap operators (read those who supply polypropylene) - in the end you start carrying your own so you know what you have.

A good company has an expense system for situations like these.

Cheers,
Kirsten B.

[I WAS Birddog]

Sure, but they don't mention providing an aircraft.

Always room for a witty, well timed post.

[pelmet]

It will only be bad for those that lie in the interview when they say that they plan to work for the company for three years or whatever the length of the bond is.

[black hole]

Well I'm an AME too; and when I asked if they would buy my tools--------I'm sure you know how that went over!!!!!!!!!!!

BH

[Krimson]

Well I'm an AME too; and when I asked if they would buy my tools--------I'm sure you know how that went over!!!!!!!!!!!

BH

Do you also pay for engine cranes, O2 bottles, carts, ladders, scissor lift, etc?