Air Canada Selects Air Georgian

[bcflyer]

Sadly, the College of pilot is not interested in doing jack shit for wage equality.

Please enlighten us as to what they should do.

[Morav]

Sadly, the College of pilot is not interested in doing jack shit for wage equality.

I don't think you understand the point of the college.

Do yourself a favor and do some research.

[teacher]

A few things.

The College's first stated goal is to have regulatory control over licensing. Use your imagination as to what could be achieved in the long run with wages and working conditions if that was the case. It is a long term goal no doubt but can be achieved with the support of all Canadian pilots. WAWCON WILL improve once we pilots hold control over our licenses!! It is not a Stated Goal but an end result.

As for the above accidents yes, shit happens but the common thread between those crashes was that an inexperienced FO was pilot flying. Even with an experienced captain in the left seat the end result was as seen above.

[Green Onions]

The hiring of college kids started after both these crashes and continues today... just saying.

[BE20 Driver]

I'm always amazed at how everyone believes that we will control the supply and demand and that this will directly lead to improving WAWCON for everyone.

WAWCON WILL improve once we pilots hold control over our licenses!! It is not a Stated Goal but an end result.

How did controlling the labour market work out for Cuba, Russia, China (until they capitalized their version of communism)? Bastions of prosperity for all, weren't they? Every time you tell me about how Doctors control their licensing, I remember how it took me six years to get a family doctor when I lived in Ontario. Do you think that anyone will wait six years to get wait-listed for a vacation?

I'm not saying don't support the college - just use your head and don't expect the college fairy to make life all rainbows and unicorns again.

Anyway, carry on bashing Georgian. At least now everyone can turn their attention from Sky Regional and Encore, to Georgian. Six months down the road, someone else will come along and be another nail in Jazz's coffin. How quickly we all forget that last summer we were all hurling insults at AC mainline pilots who accepted the new contract.

[teacher]

Not the best comparison BE20 Driver. Doctors are paid for by the government and the government controls how many it hires. The College would not control who and how many companies would be hiring. The college of physicians upped the number of doctors it produced but without funding to hospitals they cannot be hired. The real doctor shortage isn't a shortage of doctors but tax dollars to pay them and therefore hire them. The solution of course is a 2 tier healthcare system that allows users to pay if they wish and therefore free up money to hire more doctors but that is a discussion for another thread.

I know this because I have several friends in the field of medicine. One of which had to go to Australia to specialize because there were no positions in Canada. Patients yes but no funded job.

[Black Cat]

Sadly, the College of pilot is not interested in doing jack shit for wage equality.

I don't think you understand the point of the college.

Do yourself a favor and do some research.

I was responding to the previous poster who seemed to think joining the COP will bring about better wages. Do yourself a favour and read the thread


if i miss understood the "point" of the COP and it is vision for the future is a regulatory body that determines wages and working conditions for every pilot based on years of experience and number of seats behind him/her I apologize. I'm not sure how I could misunderstand one of the first slides in the COP information seminar I attended though " Not a super union and not regulating wages".

Please tell me I am wrong, I want to be wrong.

[teacher]

Here's a thought. College sets standards. ATPL perhaps or IATRA. Those are needed to operate these aircraft. Tougher and higher standards mean less people to fly these aircraft forcing companies to pay more for qualified candidates.

Guidelines for new pilots so they are educated as to what is expected of them to uphold the respect of the profession. Believe it or not, new pilots bend break and disregard professional behaviours because they are told early in their careers that this is the way it is and has to be. It does not have to be that way.

The College will do what WE want it to do because it will be OURS and being a member will be the only way to influence change and steer it where you want it to go.

[Localizer]

Lets make it simple .. Look at the current state of this industry. Not good. What have we done about it? Nothing. How about we get off ours ass's and put a little faith in the fact our collective voices could bring about positve change, because our current methods haven't yielded shit so far. Back yourself and your fellow pilots for all our sakes and change the industry. Join.

[airspeed250]

The real doctor shortage isn't a shortage of doctors but tax dollars to pay them and therefore hire them.

Sorry, not true. Small towns across this country are offering free homes + perks, to family doctors who will move to provide services. Ask them how this is going - years after they are trying. Do you know of any unemployed family doctors who simply do not want to move to a rural setting? Please tell me how many unemployed doctors you know of period due a lack of tax dollars. And if there are excess doctors floating around, why did my friend in general surgery just sign on straight out of residency at 600k/year? If what you say is true, there would be two surgeons hired on at 300k/year. But what we have today does not seem like a shortage of tax dollars to me - or unemployed doctors. Where would a two tier system find these doctors waiting around for jobs? My ex gf is a GP. She was constantly asked to work at every clinic and town/city/province you can name - there was never any comments about "sorry, we can only offer this limited salary because we have a stack of resumes with the same experience". There is a shortage of residency spots (due to a shortage of doctors being able to train new residents here due to a lack of healthcare funding stemming back 20 years ago), yes, which is why you know of MD graduates going overseas for residency like your friend did, definitely not for a lack of tax dollars for salaries when doctors are done residency.

Pilots need to stop comparing themselves to doctors and the medical profession. Time to realize there is an mass excess supply of pilots, not doctors. Maybe it is time to have a college requiring a license holder to have a 4 year science undergrad with a 3.75+ gpa, plus experience, before being able to practice much like other professions.

[airspeed250]

Don't fault the employer, they keep lowering the bar but people still want to work for them.

Except, what is your choice when you just dropped a couple years into training, $60 grand, maybe even a degree, and a couple years working in not so great conditions building time, or making even less as an instructor in a 40 year old Cessna where the radios hardly work? $30k/year and a nice clean aircraft, in a big city, for a scheduled airline, is very appealing. And if you don't accept the wage, there are 10 other people who will. And once you've put in time as a FO, are you going to turn down a captain spot in a few years which pays much more, even though it's only on par with a starting wage in an office job which requires zero experience? No.

[Rogerdodger2]

A country wide sick day every few months would shake things up a bit. If we bring aviation in this country to a grinding halt once in a while it might spark change.

[GRK]

Wow…just like Greece or Spain or Italy…how's that working out for 'em?

[complexintentions]

The problems in the EU are a tad more complex than workers going on strike, but thanks for playing.

[justwork]

Don't fault the employer, they keep lowering the bar but people still want to work for them.

Except, what is your choice when you just dropped a couple years into training, $60 grand, maybe even a degree, and a couple years working in not so great conditions building time, or making even less as an instructor in a 40 year old Cessna where the radios hardly work? $30k/year and a nice clean aircraft, in a big city, for a scheduled airline, is very appealing. And if you don't accept the wage, there are 10 other people who will. And once you've put in time as a FO, are you going to turn down a captain spot in a few years which pays much more, even though it's only on par with a starting wage in an office job which requires zero experience? No.

That's easy, you have the choice not to take the job. The guys on the 1900 will be making more money than you on that old jet. Also, I have a lot of friends who have made that choice already, started working up north and will stay up north because they know they're worth more than what big city operators will pay.

[rigpiggy]

Word I got was they were going to pay B1900 Pay +8-10kdollars

[airboy1]

Last I heard
Captain: 72k
F/O: 39K

[Localizer]

Last I heard .. Nobody ever hears correct.

[gtanorth]

The pay scale is based on credit hours with a defined min. The average Capt is projected to earn between 74K and 78K (initial direct entry Captains will/may be higher on the scale based on exp) and the FO's will earn 38K to 40K. That is with average workloads and no additional duties. Per diems were raised in the last collective agreement. The benefits are excellent for a mid-size company including loss of licence ins, medical, dental, life ins, ac passes (C4) and new RRSP matching although at a very low 1% after 5 years (it is a start). LIDC Captains and additional duty holders will be making 85K to 90K but no longer get an additional day off. Pilots also have the option of switching to Regional 1, AGL's charter division where the wages are higher and the schedule is lighter but not defined. The crew who rotate to Afghanistan or Africa from R1 also earn a very high premium. In summary if a CRJ or Dash 8 driver wants pay over schedule they can get it at AGL/R1.

To answer the experience question; I think the merger with Regional 1 last month will address all issues. R1 is a CRJ operator flying the type in the Canadian north, Africa and other locations. They also have a long list of contract pilots that R1 uses when they need them - assume most will work for AGL at least for a while. In other words the new AGL/R1 is an existing CRJ operator with both Canadian and international experience.

The loss of YHZ for AGL and gain for EVAS is part of AC regional airline diversification strategy and signifies more growth for both operators.

AGL has access to 50 CRJ's and close to 100 Dash 8 classics as well as "more than a few" Q400 aircraft through AVmax their new partner. I think you will see their focus shift from the B1900 to these types in the next few years both within the AC family and outside of it by growing Regional 1.

The pay scales at AGL cover B1900, up-to 50 seat TP, up-to 50 jet, 51 - 76 seat TP and 51 - 76 seat jet. The CRJ 100 and 200's that AGL will fly for AC are upper middle of the scale.

[rudder]

The pay scale is based on credit hours with a defined min. The average Capt is projected to earn between 74K and 78K (initial direct entry Captains will/may be higher on the scale based on exp) and the FO's will earn 38K to 40K. That is with average workloads and no additional duties. Per diems were raised in the last collective agreement. The benefits are excellent for a mid-size company including loss of licence ins, medical, dental, life ins, ac passes (C4) and new RRSP matching although at a very low 1% after 5 years (it is a start). LIDC Captains and additional duty holders will be making 85K to 90K but no longer get an additional day off. Pilots also have the option of switching to Regional 1, AGL's charter division where the wages are higher and the schedule is lighter but not defined. The crew who rotate to Afghanistan or Africa from R1 also earn a very high premium. In summary if a CRJ or Dash 8 driver wants pay over schedule they can get it at AGL/R1.

The pay scales at AGL cover B1900, up-to 50 seat TP, up-to 50 jet, 51 - 76 seat TP and 51 - 76 seat jet. The CRJ 100 and 200's that AGL will fly for AC are upper middle of the scale.

Is this the deal that the GGN pilots voted no to or is it something new?