I cant believe they allow me to do this!

[dirtdr]

So there is some discussion in other threads about new PPLs flying in adverse conditions and not having the required skills.

I have had my PPL for about a year, and got my night rating last winter. So far about 300hrs of smashing bugs in a 172. I have definitely learned a lot.

After getting my night rating, I found myself blasting off in the dark for lots of xcountry flights across Alberta, and a few times I thought to myself "I cant believe they allow me to do this".

Looking back on it the old saying comes to mind "Legal isn't necessarily safe". and I know I put myself into situations where I was pushing the limits of my ability/experience. Flying at night to unfamiliar airports, in not so great weather, etc.

Although one must push the limits a little bit to gain experience in different conditions, I realize now that if I think "I cant believe they allow me to do this", then mabee I shouldn't be doing it, or do it with someone with more experience in the seat beside me.

"Licence to learn"

I am thankful I came to realize this before perusing my IFR rating.

[Krimson]

If you're not comfortable doing something, don't do it. That goes for any level of experience.

Sure it's good to learn, but stick a toe in, don't just jump into the deep end. If it's a career in aviation you are interested in, you will learn a lot on your first job. If you are just recreationally flying, it doesn't hurt to bring someone experienced along and do some flying completely out of your comfort zone.

Good job realizing what you are getting yourself into, it's not just a game. As cliche as it is, safety is paramount.

[Inphered]

We've always thought of the night rating as a get out of jail free card.

My company regularly flies from central to western Australia, when we return we lose 1.5 hours due to the time zones. For the guys here that don't have instrument or night ratings it means they, after a full week flying remote might have to spend and extra night away due to end of day light, but that could mean they have to stop flying at 3pmbecause the distance home means they'd arrive 30min to an hour after last light, were as those of us with NVFR or IR can push on home.

The draw backs of a NVFR quickly become apparent in Australia due to the vast remoteness you can encounter. I'm constantly flying at night where there is no reference point outside. No moon, no visible ground features, no towns, the roads are dirt and no lights. You are effectively flying on sole reference to your instrumentation, and in a single aircraft, especially in a charter environment, this could mean you don't have a GPS, if you do it's probably not certified. There might only be a VOR or NDB (yes we are still backwards enough to have these in the land down under) and you also need to consider that radar coverage in Australia doesn't cover 100% of the land mass, and down below the flight levels your on HF, VHF is sketchy at best and so is the HF.

Yes a night rating means you can legally fly at night, but you really need to consider you own abilities as a pilot, your recency at night flying, the aircraft, the weather, where you flying to, options on where you can go if you get into trouble and if you in a single, what happens if you lose you only engine etc etc etc.

Best thing you can do is get your IR. Even if it's only for singles. That way your better equipping yourself for flying at night, even if you go VFR you will have that extra knowledge to draw upon when the conditions get a bit dicier.

I can remember my CFI when I did my cpl saying if they ever caught us planning a night flight, in a single for any reason other than training they wouldn't sign out the aircraft to us.

At the end of the day, a night rating is handy to have, don't get me wrong, but don't be blase about it. Consider everything, including do you really need to conduct that flight at night, mitigate the risks as much as possible. A night scenic over a well lit city or town is a far cry from a cross country nav, to an unfamiliar airfield when the weather might be a bit dodgy. Believe me it's no fun flying into unforcast CB and imbedded CB at night.

Things might be different in Canada, but this is my experience from Aus. Hopefully when I move to the land of the maple leaf next year i'll be able to experience it for myself

[fish4life]

Well luckily for you that is very similar to canada, huge areas with no lights anywhere around a good 80% of Canada doesn't have radar coverage, depending how far north you go you may never experience any time for daylight and to top it off if it's dark early here it's going to be really cold.

[pdw]

After getting my night rating, I found myself blasting off in the dark for lots of xcountry flights across Alberta, and a few times I thought to myself "I cant believe they allow me to do this".

Know what you mean, except maybe around southern Ontario there were many lights below wherever we flew at night. One thing was really emphasized a lot was the 180 degree turn ...

"Licence to learn"

Makes sense, ... the PPL is apparently the only gift we get in aviation.

[CpnCrunch]

I only have a handful of night hours, but I've still been caught out a few times in Alberta when unforecast fog appeared.

What I don't understand is why people fly in crappy conditions that have been forecast for days ahead. Right now there is a cessna 172 belonging to a nearby flying club flying overhead at night in a light snow shower with ground temperature between 0C and 2C under a 2100-2500ft overcast in 2.5mile viz with 1C dewpoint spread.

[Beefitarian]

Probably someone has to get a night rating for their CPL. That ended up being the only night flying I did.

I think you're being hard on yourself dirtdr, I understand though and agree you should maintain a high standard. Flying is one of the very few things I take seriously even if I don't act like it.

Edit: these two sentences are totally separate responses. The first one is my thoughts about "why some clubs or FTUs fly in less desire able weather. Sorry if it was not clear.

[dirtdr]

Its not really about maintaining a high standard... Its about the ability to define when something is really riskier that it is originally percieved to be. That, like many say here, is the dangerous part... As a new pilot I dont know what I dont know yet.

Scariest was right after i got my night rating.... Which by the way i did in 3 nights, all of which were near full moon, on clear nights, with snow cover.... Probably should be a rule against that.... Anyway, i thought night flying was great. I loved flying over the city and looking at the pretty lights...

I think i did one flight on my own and then wanted to show my wife and kids the beauty of flying at night. The air was good, and my wife needs the still air experience to get more comfortable in a small plane. We pile into the cherokee and blast off westbound from Wetaskiwin for a scenic midnight flight over edmonton, with a quick stop at city center... As soon as he wheels left the runway... BAM.. Black hole in front of me. The midnight flight ended up being one circuit and right back to the parking spot.

[Beefitarian]

Well I wasn't there but you seemed to be able to deal with it. I'm not suggesting scaring yourself with the family along is a good time. You seem to be smart enough to learn from that event and improve your skills through practise, instead of getting an ego boost and deciding you're ready to bite off a bigger challenge.

In my opinion you're on the right track to becoming a safer pilot with every flight as your experience grows.

[PositiveRate27]

If anyone is doing a night rating on the west coast make sure to get your instructor to take you to Campbell River (CYBL). That is one smokin' black hole at night. Great experience that I never really understood until I saw it there. The PAPI's make it easy, but its amazing how uncomfortable it feels flying the PAPI's showing 3 white, and you still feel high. You can't turn them off unfortunately, but you can still have a good discussion about how odd the approach feels when you fly it on profile at night.

[flyboynextdoor]

There's nothing dangerous about night VFR if the weather is good. Knowing the route or area helps alot too. Personally Id rather be in a turbine than a Piston but that holds true during the day also. I always feel a bit like a mosquito pilot over France on a night raid.

[Colonel Sanders]

Personally Id rather be in a turbine than a Piston

Pilots are so funny.

The engine has no eyeballs, so it doesn't know it's
dark out. Or water underneath.

99% of the time, when there's an accident at night,
it's because the PILOT screwed up. Not because of
poor maintenance.

Don't fly junk during the day, either. Plenty of pilots
kill themselves when their airplane isn't perfect during
the day, too. which is another tragedy for another
discussion.

Anyways, pilots are so funny because they always
egotistically ignore the 99% accident cause factor
(their flying) and obsess about the 1% (at most)
mechanical.

Pretty funny. From an engineering perspective, it's
hilariously poor optimization technique. Most of us
would focus on the 99% accident cause factor (look
in the mirror).

Night flying isn't hard. It's just very badly taught, most
of the time.

PS You will live longer if you refuse to fly night VFR
without a 3 degree dewpoint spread. Also peek at
the radar. Do not fly night VFR in precip, for a variety
of reasons (what is it doing to the dewpoint spread?)

The other thing that will kill you is the TRANSITION
from having a visual horizon, to not having a visual
horizon. Note that this can happen during the day,
too. Climbing in haze, over water, whiteout, etc.

I was doing a night recurrent check last night, and
as we taxiied out, I casually asked the pilot what
he was going to do, immediately after takeoff.

"On the attitude indicator, wings level, 10 degrees
nose up"

Good boy. Guess who did his night rating?

[leftoftrack]

You failed to point his next sentence which was he'd prefer that during the day too.

[Colonel Sanders]

Ever flown a cub or a champ or a t-craft or
any other aircraft that has no gyroscopic
flight instruments?

I have spent thousands of hours with only
an airspeed, altimeter and a compass tumbling
merrily about. No VSI. Not even a ball.

But I digress. Perhaps today's pilots can only
fly via the dials.

Ah, the irony: for the life of me, I can't make
people LOOK OUTSIDE yet getting on the attitude
indicator is often a novel concept for them.

Seneca senior class 1 flight instructors struggle
with this, the TSB says.

[sidestick stirrer]

"If anyone is doing a night rating on the west coast make sure to get your instructor to take you to Campbell River (CYBL). That is one smokin' black hole at night."

I will meet your Campbell River and raise you one night, VFR approach from the South into Nanaimo.
It starts out not too bad, descending while flying up a narrowing harbour but there is total darkness beyond the shoreline to both sides, due to the steeply-rising terrain which is higher than the aircraft. In fact, I cannot think of another airport where you cannot see the airport on downwind as we must fly around this honking big hill to the East of the airport, dark but for a couple of red lights on top.
An approach to this airport is on our dual night-rating cross country and it gets very quiet from the left seat as we continue descending towards nothing but red obstacle lights denoting the edge of a gravel pit that we are heading directly towards; no runway, no airport, no PAPI in sight until they appear from behind the hill to our right during the last few hundred feet and requires quite a turn between the obstacle lights towards a displaced threshold.
Done a few times and it becomes second nature like everything else but it takes a leap of trust from the students to initially keep descending so low into the darkness, trusting the instructor that there will actually be an airport.

[CpnCrunch]

"If anyone is doing a night rating on the west coast make sure to get your instructor to take you to Campbell River (CYBL). That is one smokin' black hole at night."

An approach to this airport is on our dual night-rating cross country and it gets very quiet from the left seat as we continue descending towards nothing but red obstacle lights denoting the edge of a gravel pit that we are heading directly towards; no runway, no airport, no PAPI in sight until they appear from behind the hill to our right during the last few hundred feet and requires quite a turn between the obstacle lights towards a displaced threshold.

Doesn't that mean you're a bit low? You really should be seeing the runway before descending below 500ft AGL (600MSL). I like to stay at 1000ft until near the end of the harbour, even during the day (otherwise those hills on the extended centreline can get quite close!)

IMO if you end up right on the 3.5 degree PAPI for 34 you're too low, unless you're doing an ILS approach and/or have some kind of terrain warning.